Eric1738 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 sounds good to me. coz i hate you need macro to maximize the effectiveness. but maybe rebalance the damage to compensate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeckChairVonBananaCamel Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) If it's 'illegal' when they deliberately made the attack speed so hard to reach, why make it that high? Reduce the fire rate and add more damage. Solve a problem with a solution, not with a problem. That's why I don't get the stealth nerf. It's bad in all aspects. they probably want to make it so that itll fire as fast as you can click, but dont want to set it ridiculously high to prevent the bolto becoming an incredibly powerful and accurate shotgun with the aid of macros Edit: the point is, that in using macros/mousewheel you should never have a situation where the only way for another player to match it is with the same tactic, because then, as more and more people use it, it stops being an advantage to use it, and instead becomes a disadvantage not to it levels the playing field, people who are dexterous enough to reach 10 shots a second will have the same damage output as someone who is using a macro. people who can barely reach 4 clicks a second can use the mouse wheel without exceeding the effectiveness of others Edited March 22, 2015 by DeckChairVonBananaCamel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dimbreath Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Most people can't exceed 10 clicks per second, so it shouldn't affect anything. Although they should increase the cap to 12-14. People use macros. I've asked the support and they told me: "Use them at your own risk". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixEXO Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) they probably want to make it so that itll fire as fast as you can click, but dont want to set it ridiculously high to prevent the bolto becoming an incredibly powerful and accurate shotgun with the aid of macros Edit: the point is, that in using macros/mousewheel you should never have a situation where the only way for another player to match it is with the same tactic, because then, as more and more people use it, it stops being an advantage to use it, and instead becomes a disadvantage not to it levels the playing field, people who are dexterous enough to reach 10 shots a second will have the same damage output as someone who is using a macro. people who can barely reach 4 clicks a second can use the mouse wheel without exceeding the effectiveness of others At which point I ask, why even include it then. People's build generally revolves around slapping on a Lethal Torrent which increases RoF. If it were THAT bad, why not DECREASE RoF and then increase the base damages up to compensate; rather than having 10.0, drop it to maybe 8.0 and increase the damage profile to compensate for that potential damage lost. Even if people reach close to 10.0 fire rate, that 16.0 fire rate is unreachable. It's insane to even bother to keep clicking, right? Edited March 22, 2015 by matrixEXO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.Czern Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I don't understand you. Semi-auto trigger type means lots of clicking, the faster you mash your finger the faster you shoot. But it's tiring and can cause health issues, so people started using macros. And as always, people found out a way to exploit and full auto Akbolto emerged. It WAS an exploit, even if the devs allowed us to use it. Now they took that possibility away. Semi-auto weapons are still viable (I haven't used auto trigger macros and somehow managed to do great without them), now if you think that they aren't, ask for rebalancing semi-autos or full auto trigger mod (that'd be fun :>) Do a small test. Visit this site [http://scratch.mit.edu/projects/23665793/] and see how many clicks per second can you get. Don't cheat and hold your hand down so you can aim while spamming clicks. I doubt that anyone can exceed 10 clicks per second while maintaining enough control over the hand to reliably aim at targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LazyKnight Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) At which point I ask, why even include it then. People's build generally revolves around slapping on a Lethal Torrent which increases RoF. If it were THAT bad, why not DECREASE RoF and then increase the base damages up to compensate; rather than having 10.0, drop it to maybe 8.0 and increase the damage profile to compensate for that potential damage lost. Even if people reach close to 10.0 fire rate, that 16.0 fire rate is unreachable. It's insane to even bother to keep clicking, right? I know it would be a DPS loss, but for nearly every semi secondary with a base fire rate that is greater than 8, it would be better for lethal's fire-rate to be converted into additional percentage of multiple shot. This is cap is problem on a few weapons that can be made into a short list. Not in alphabetical order: 1) Bronco 2) Bronco prime 3) Ak Bronco 4) Ak Bronco prime 5) Bolto 6) Ak bolto 7) Telos ak bolto 8) Vasto < one fire rate mod caps it. 9) Ak vasto 10 Magnus 11) Ak magnus 12) Acrid 13) Akjagara None of these weapons will get a DPS boost from fire-rate mods, using fire-rate mods would only help with frame rate droping, so it is possible to get 10 RoF. Now the only weapons that can gain a benefit from the fire-rate mods are the autos, and the absurdly slow semi weapons like Lex and Seer. Edited March 22, 2015 by LazyKnight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinyranitar Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Ayyy reason to use Creeping Bullseye now. Oh wait Telos Akbolto has crap crit chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blakrana Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 It doesn't make sense. I use a controller, so I literally pull a trigger to fire my guns. 10 per second is too slow for me to get the most enjoyment out of my Akbolto - I could empty a clip in about a second and a half. It greatly enhanced the feel of firing the Akbolto, which is the main reason it's my favourite weapon. Controller user here as well, and you'd be surprised how quickly you can burn ammo with things like the Akjagara. And I don't use Lethal Torrent or +Fire Rate mods in general. I'll have to have a gander at things when I get on later, I'm a little pre-occupied currently, but if I can't Rapid Fire the Akjagara at point blank any more that's...inconvenient. But, again, I'll need to see it for myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter13 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Moving over to bugs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrJia Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) A buddy of mine specifically bought a mouse with a spinning wheel so he could take advantage of the Telos Akbolto's fire rate and damage. He's gonna be extremely salty about this change. Good job moving an unadvertised nerf to the bugs section, Letter. Edited March 22, 2015 by DrJia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
direcyphre Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 This sounds an awful lot like macro protection, as was added some time ago. Essentially an intentional cooldown if buttons are too rapidly pressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaumatos Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Google "clicks per second coutner" and grab one off the interwebz. I spike at about 12 clicks per second without using more than one finger or contorting my hand in such a way that it wouldn't be possible to aim properly. 10 is most definitely not a good number. Edit: As for the stealth nerfs, it looks like U16 was missing a lot of balance notes. Either there was a page of notes missing or someone on the dev team wasn't properly recording what changes they were making to the game. Edited March 22, 2015 by Thaumatos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ognj Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Look, I don't mind that they want to change this, I really don't. But DE has such a poor communication between players, and that's making us quite nervous for these "stealth nerfs".As my clanmaster said : " I don't mind if you use macros to spam fire rate like that in PvE, but in PvP you should earn a ban".Honestly to me, this feels more like a change that should have been PvP only. I understand that this is gamebreaking. For PvE i could care less, its goofy and fun to spray bolts. In PvP I am completely for this change!Somehow I have a strong feel a lot of stealth nerfs should have been PvP only! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
---Merchant--- Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 they are semi automaticyou cheat to make them automaticu want your cheat backdid i type it correctly?no matter how i look on It,I do not see problembut sure show me ppl that click mouse over 10 times/sec http://www.urban75.com/Mag/java7.htmlthis is game where u can count your clicksdivide your score by 10I reach 8 clicks/sec and I play shooter games professionally [i make money at competetions]now you also have to wsad+ability spam+move mouse+do it all game longso ingame you reach like 50-70% of that score screenshot of my score on that linki m sure u can beat such casual if u click hard enought:^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kireek_ Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 they are semi automatic you cheat to make them automatic u want your cheat back did i type it correctly? No, you did not. If I wanted an automatic Akbolto, I could use the Boltor. What I wanted was a gun that has a lot of weight behind its shots and could fire as fast as I could pull the trigger. Before this change, the Akbolto fit that description. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darzk Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 A quick and easy solution would be to give us a 'Lethal Torrent 2.0' mod worth 80% multishot that conflicts with the original Lethal Torrent. This would help a lot for most semi-auto weapons by increasing the consistency of the damage per trigger pull. It'd still be a loss in burst but would simply fit a semi-auto weapon better. For those noting it's not a big change, one of the reasons the high-RoF semi-auto's were able to keep up with other weapon prospects was because they had that potential for a quick burst, either through a scroll bind, macro, or even just frenzied clicking when something goes to hell. My Telos Akbolto's build goes from 40.8k/20.5k DPS to 25.5k/15.7k if we manually limit the RoF to 10/second (did you know you can do that in the builder? cool, huh?). Less than 16k sustained is pretty crappy - its actually nearly identical to the Dex Furis, and there's not a lot of fan's extolling that weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InoxMaximus Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 is this a bug or intended ? DE answer to this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeckChairVonBananaCamel Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 No, you did not. If I wanted an automatic Akbolto, I could use the Boltor. What I wanted was a gun that has a lot of weight behind its shots and could fire as fast as I could pull the trigger. Before this change, the Akbolto fit that description. something tells me that people who could click at over 10 times per second, and keep doing this in bursts over extended play sessions, WITHOUT SUFFERING A REPETITIVE STRAIN INJURY are few and far between. also, if you jitter-click, and thats how you get 15cps, just wanna inform you that jitter-clicking can result in tendonitis (also known as tennis elbow), and if used regularly will result in arthritis at an alarmingly early age. please dont jitter click, its REALLY bad for your joints so, how many of you can click normally 10 times per second? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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