Cool3303 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) I wanted to discuss how viable Arcanes would be without or a different a 24 hour limit. For all those that dont know: ---Summary--- Arcane Enhancers on the lowest level cause an outcry because they are incredibly weak and lackluster ontop of that they require a lot of credits They can be stacked up to 10x times granting 4x of all values, which would make some of them relatively strong Arcane Enhancers are a guaranteed drop from the raid, however only once each 24 hours, counted after ending the raid. There are currently 14, meaning that you will have to run the mission atleast 140 times to get each 10 times ---Discussion--- As I pointed out in this thread which got moved into Mission Feedback hell: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/422881-the-raid-isnt-that-bad-however-there-are-a-few-flaws/ It will take you 160-170 days if you do 1 mission each 24 hours and dont fail to maybe have 10 of each. Keep in mind failing will shift it 20-30mins further backwards, in an assumed timewindow between 18:00 and 1:00 that is rather bad. Additionally the 5 mill cost is insanely high (even though raids drop 200k without boost) The only solutions coming to mind are: 1.Instantly hand out 10times stacked Arcanes.-A good option however if trading (and I hope so) is possible this will quickly trivialize raid content A problem would be duplicate drops, something which is balanced out when getting the single parts. 2.Add a lower chance to get a Arcane Enhancer however give it out 10 times stacked. I have never seen something as infuriating as RNG let loose, furthermore this will scare away players or lead to above scenario. Additionally it would be highly criticised by a part of the playerbase. 3.My Favorite:Allow repeating the mission as it is with the current enhancer rewards, however without the reward limit and more credits.This would keep the time required high, require dedication but allow dedicated players to get a set within 120-200 Hours.(consider that there will be 2 more raids soon probably with new loot) Dropping as single parts would iron the rng a bit out and could still give a bit of progress while keeping an incentive with the credit reward What is your opinion and the best change DE could make? Please pick the number of the solution and write a bit why you support it Edited March 22, 2015 by Cool3303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absens Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) I havent done the raid yet. BUT, i have done raids in many games before. In ALL games,raids are rewarding, they should make you feel you have accomplished something. The raid grinding to get more bonus is completely unacceptable. I thought these arcane bonuses might be something really worth when i first heard about them, they would be different from the other games hwere raids reward you with some unique items, hell i was wrong. I don't know what will DE do, but reward tables should be changed completely at this pont I dont know about the hour limit, but my opinion remains the same Edited March 22, 2015 by Absens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cool3303 Posted March 22, 2015 Author Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Edited title for clarity. The first one was a little bit too opinionated and I think a lot of players didnt notice the limit yet Edited March 22, 2015 by Cool3303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZxpferTH Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Yeah the 24 hour waiting it a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monolake Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 The rewards are simply laughable. Some of the effects are useless AND they have a small chance on top of that. Stacking is not viable considering the cost of time and credits and small chance to get duplicates, like you said it would take ~hundred runs to get 10 dupes. Trading? No one will trade for the crappy ones. I didn't even know about waiting, makes it even less possible to farm for several of them. DE needs to buff them and make all of them useful. Maybe its time to ask people who actually play the game and understand what effects will be valuable and what wont. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zangon Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I agree, DE really #*($%%@ up with this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qynchou Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Stopped reading at "run the mission 140 times". Theyre tradable. Wish there was a -rep button. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IidaHitoshi Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Im pretty sure in many MMOs, you can only do raids once per week (7 day waiting period until u can do it again) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absens Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Stopped reading at "run the mission 140 times". Theyre tradable. Wish there was a -rep button. Are you serious? So you want us to trade the raid rewards because they are utterly useless if you dont get like at least 10 of them. While a single enchantement cost 500k credits. God i can't stand people on forum sometimes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moasiac Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) Stopped reading at "run the mission 140 times". Theyre tradable. Wish there was a -rep button. Yeah, I wish I could give your post -rep too. You're basically saying it's pay2win. Im pretty sure in many MMOs, you can only do raids once per week (7 day waiting period until u can do it again) At least they offer rewards worth the wait. These bonuses offered by these raid rewards are laughable. They say "oh, you can stack it 10 times", but that's not rewarding in the least. Edited March 22, 2015 by Moasiac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Invalid_Infinity Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 I like option #3. I doubt DE likes it seeing as they have been making bad decisions seemingly on purpose lately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qynchou Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Are you serious? So you want us to trade the raid rewards because they are utterly useless if you dont get like at least 10 of them. While a single enchantement cost 500k credits. God i can't stand people on forum sometimes By your logic me trading a legendary core for platinum indicates that the legendary core is useless. Yeah, I wish I could give your post -rep too. You're basically saying it's pay2win. At least they offer rewards worth the wait. These bonuses offered by these raid rewards are laughable. They say "oh, you can stack it 10 times", but that's not rewarding in the least. It would be pay2win if they were available for platinum at the market. Please look up the definition of pay2win. I want to ask if any of you in this thread are even capable/completed a raid yet. Just curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDandyLion Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) These rewards should come at full level in a single application. The amount of credits is high enough, the wait time is long, and there are way too many pieces of gear. If you account for each helmet and each different syandana you put on different frames, you will be remaking the same enhancement countless times anyway. This actually punishes players way too hard for using several different cosmetics rather than just a single one on everything. It would also encourage players to acquire more cosmetics if they want to switch which enhancements they want on a frame. There is also the part about people reapply them to new cosmetics that come out in the future if they prefer the appearance of the new ones. Even at 1 enhancement per cosmetic, that is still a huge amount of enhancements and credits that are needed. Again, that is also a huge amount of credits that is a bottleneck. Oh, and yes, I have beaten the raid. That sort of dismissive superiority has no place in logical discussion. Edited March 22, 2015 by TheDandyLion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Absens Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 By your logic me trading a legendary core for platinum indicates that the legendary core is useless. Your arguments make zero sense... It's like 'Hey this guys makes a good point about raid rewards being not worth the effort, while also implying the grind and trade required for it is a complete BS' But Ember is a bad frame so i won't bother buying ember prime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qynchou Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) These rewards should come at full level in a single application. The amount of credits is high enough, the wait time is long, and there are way too many pieces of gear. If you account for each helmet and each different syandana you put on different frames, you will be remaking the same enhancement countless times anyway. This actually punishes players way too hard for using several different cosmetics rather than just a single one on everything. It would also encourage players to acquire more cosmetics if they want to switch which enhancements they want on a frame. There is also the part about people reapply them to new cosmetics that come out in the future if they prefer the appearance of the new ones. Even at 1 enhancement per cosmetic, that is still a huge amount of enhancements and credits that are needed. By your logic I would already have several maxed arcanes. 2 days after U16 release. In a week or two id have everything maxed. If you think endgame content should take 1-2 weeks to max you need to reconsider your views on it. Your arguments make zero sense... It's like 'Hey this guys makes a good point about raid rewards being not worth the effort, while also implying the grind and trade required for it is a complete BS' But Ember is a bad frame so i won't bother buying ember prime Thats your logic not mine. -snip raid rewards because they are utterly useless if you dont get like at least 10 of them. -snip- Just because I dont need something doesnt mean its useless. Edited March 22, 2015 by Qynchou Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[DE]Momaw Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 The reward structure does seem a bit brutal. What if the raid gave you a choice of 3 different random arcanes on completion, and it only took 5 to max out the effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDandyLion Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 By your logic I would already have several maxed arcanes. 2 days after U16 release. In a week or two id have everything maxed. You can get 1 a day without trading and you have to wait 24 hours for them to finish. Trading from other players and rushing are both paid methods of bypassing progression. You could say the same thing about buy a Boltor Prime and the mods for it as a new player. The thing about these arcanes is that you do not just have 1 kind of enhancement that you would only ever want. Once you have on kind of enhanced on a certain cosmetic, you would also want to put a different enhancement on the same thing so that you can switch it out. There is not such clear point at which you are done so quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tulzscha Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 General Discussion isn't the place for feedback threads, please read and understand: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/318374-please-read-before-posting-threads-what-is-and-isnt-general-discussion/ Moved to the proper section. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
manub Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 giving 10 of the arcane things at the same time wouldn t be a good idea i think, it would make them a tad too easy to obtain (even though it s raid) I agree that 24 hours between 2 raids is a little too much, I hope DE will lower the "cooldown time". i think 12 hours would be largely sufficient Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Qynchou Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 You can get 1 a day without trading and you have to wait 24 hours for them to finish. Trading from other players and rushing are both paid methods of bypassing progression. You could say the same thing about buy a Boltor Prime and the mods for it as a new player. The thing about these arcanes is that you do not just have 1 kind of enhancement that you would only ever want. Once you have on kind of enhanced on a certain cosmetic, you would also want to put a different enhancement on the same thing so that you can switch it out. There is not such clear point at which you are done so quickly. Without trading. Yeah, so trade? Jesus lol. Every single solution that is perfectly logical and available you refuse to take. Im gonna go on a limb here and say you havent actually completed a raid yet. Completing a full arcane in 10 days is pretty fast. Also every single warframe is pay2win, hell warframe itself is highly pay2win because you can rush things and bypass progression. Your logic is amazing so I'll let you argue with a brick wall, good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matrixEXO Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 (edited) More unique gears that are better than arcane is what I want. I don't want some random chance proc crap, I want guaranteed effect of very specific design. IE: Mod that increases damage to Grineer Bombard by X%. Edited March 22, 2015 by matrixEXO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatpig84 Posted March 22, 2015 Share Posted March 22, 2015 Personally the effects to me are too low. They need to be better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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