SquirmyBurrito Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 You obviously haven't met Mirage. "bar very few exceptions" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
--Q--uaint Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 "bar very few exceptions" The problem with including frames like Ember into this discussion is that they're currently useless lol. Sooo... there's one frame with a DPS role, and she has great CC (and support with the augment). Hokay, maybe I'm just talking myself into a corner labeled "Mirage Master Race." Still, it seems unreasonable to say anything aside from "with the exception of X" or "with no exceptions" since we're only dealing with ~20 frames here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelSD Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I still would prefer to have Primes without significant increase in abilities. Powers like getting energy from Orbs in the Void is a nice example how to differentiate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FitzSimmons Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 DE could always just limit how much you're allowed to buff something by, thus eliminating this possibility. Ember Prime's rmor buff was minuscule compared to Volt Prime's. well either DE add more energy to volt p or not, i think it doesnt affect my play with volt nor makes him weaker than any prime that will get buff later. unless someone loves to build any frame with QT + rage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthrym Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) The problem with including frames like Ember into this discussion is that they're currently useless lol. Sooo... there's one frame with a DPS role, and she has great CC (and support with the augment). Hokay, maybe I'm just talking myself into a corner labeled "Mirage Master Race." Still, it seems unreasonable to say anything aside from "with the exception of X" or "with no exceptions" since we're only dealing with ~20 frames here. I only used Ember as one example of many, and due to the fact that her kit seems to be more obviously based on inflicting and amplifying damage, moreso than a Frost or even a Volt for instance, who also have damage mitigation capabilities. In Mirage's case things are very different, it's the weapon that does the damage, not Mirage. Hall of mirror, I think you refer to that ability, is NOT a damage based ability. It doesn't deal any damage by itself. It "only" enables your weapons to dish out even more damage by creating more instances of said weapons, albeit weaker versions. It's like saying Chaos is a damage based ability because enemies affected start shooting each others. I "said" there were a few exceptions with damage based abilities simply because it's a fact. There are few abilities that "scale" better and can do at least decent damage to enemies of a much higer level than most. Bladestorm is probably the first one that comes to mind for many a player, understandably so. if i can choose what stat i can improve on prime, i will definitely make my volt prime has 600 armor like valkyr. did you forget that DE buff ember prime stat? she got buffed, you just have to wait for others, almost 2 years im waiting for overload change, but they still not change or buff overload even after volt prime and i believe overload change will do more than just stat buff because to be honest either there is or isnt stat buff on volt prime it doesnt really matter. volt prime access price are equal to all prime access, but you know what? this prime access only have volt prime and odonata prime, no wepaons, just think those two bonus as replacer for things they should have offer in prime access. I don't see any Prime with a 600 armor bonus. Well, not yet. With the way things are going... Volt Prime received a 100 base energy as a bonus stat. The highest energy bonus was 25 before. So 4 times less. It's a big difference. He also went from 15 to 100 armor. So 85 armor points. Nyx went from 15 to 50. So 35 points. Ember Prime 125 from 100, so 25 more than her regular counterpart. Again, quite a gap between them. I'm not asking for us to be able to give 100 bonus energy or armor or whatever to the stat(s) of our choice, I'm asking for the possibility to choose between equivalent bonus stat(s) for all Primes. Stats and abilities are two different things, I think you're generalizing a bit too much here, I'm "talking" specifically about bonus stats on Primed frames and how they have been handled so far. Edited March 26, 2015 by Marthrym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)JiggaJazz Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 i mean nyx prime is amazing so i can see why she only got a small armor buff Loki Prime got a very deservee buff without making him too op state wise volt really needed the armor buff since hell be taking more fire than frames like nyx and loki the energy buff makes sense but it obviously is a huge buff from vanilla volt i guess DE really wants volt to be the tactical frame and with that comes the highest energy i really just think vanilla volt needs to have 65 armor and 200 max power Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MichaelSD Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I think there are two things which has to be take into account. Cosmetics are a matter of taste, so one has to accommodate those who wish to play the none prime versions too. Besides we do not want to see only the rare prime frames only. So the power difference should be kept small and concentrate on other things. There should be an advantage to the primes, but that should not necessarily be a large statistical advantages (Rhino Prime I look at you! :) ). It should be more subtle. Void / Orokin item interaction was a great idea! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S7ORM Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) I think there are two things which has to be take into account. Cosmetics are a matter of taste, so one has to accommodate those who wish to play the none prime versions too. Besides we do not want to see only the rare prime frames only. So the power difference should be kept small and concentrate on other things. There should be an advantage to the primes, but that should not necessarily be a large statistical advantages (Rhino Prime I look at you! :) ). It should be more subtle. Void / Orokin item interaction was a great idea! This tenno speaks truths. Cosmetics should not affect gameplay. Or at least, not in a way that forces people to have to use one thing over another because it's that much better. I really liked the original Loki. he was my most used frame (possibly still is, I haven't checked my stats). Loki Prime wasn't as appealing to me as my regular Loki. However, the energy boost was more than I could forgo for looks. Volt's energy buff, significantly larger. I have my volt looking awesome right now, but I'm going to be forced to use the Prime because its stats are just so much better. I use regular Mag over the Prime because her arms look better without Gold. No complaints there, because no stat difference. The void energy buff thing was nice, a little secret buff for the Primes. It's not that gameplay changing, because energy restores are abundant. Edited March 26, 2015 by S7ORM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(PSN)JiggaJazz Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 i really think mag prime and frost prime deserve nice buffs over their vanilla counter parts yes it will bug people that like regular frost and mag but at this point DE is pissing everyone off because of lack of consistency that buffing their primes will atleast make a lot of people happy that they finally got attention from DE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthrym Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) i mean nyx prime is amazing so i can see why she only got a small armor buff Loki Prime got a very deservee buff without making him too op state wise volt really needed the armor buff since hell be taking more fire than frames like nyx and loki the energy buff makes sense but it obviously is a huge buff from vanilla volt i guess DE really wants volt to be the tactical frame and with that comes the highest energy i really just think vanilla volt needs to have 65 armor and 200 max power I disagree. Nyx Prime relies very heavily on her energy pool, much more so than Volt ever would, simply because of Absorb for instance. For "regular" missions it doesn't matter much it's true, but in long endless runs, enemy damage output kicks into high gear, which can take a huge toll on Nyx as soon as she uses Absorb for more than knockdown/breathing room for instance. Volt on the other hand only needs enough energy to cast a shield or two, and usually you're golden. He certainly won't take more fire than Nyx or even Loki if you play him that way. Hell, even played "offensively" you can rely on your shield and "zaps" to support you much more effectively than even Chaos, since it doesn't stop enemies from shooting at Nyx, especially in crowded rooms. Loki could use more armor, because even while cloaked, as soon as you go melee you put yourself in direct danger, particularly while in a team. Enemies might not be shooting at you, but they're still firing their guns at your teammates, making the "collateral damage" possibility a very real, tangible risk. And since Loki Prime can be considered a very squishy frame, the odds that stray shots will take him out are quite high, I've seen it happen a lot, to players I consider quite skilled. But this is all subjective, it's based on each player's style. I personally find Volt to be a much more "durable" frame than some people give him credit for, but I know this opinion is just that, an opinion. And in my opinion Volt Prime received much more than he "should" have, especially compared to the other Primes. And let's not even mention "regular" Volt... Edited March 26, 2015 by Marthrym Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndantony Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Lorewise and anyway you go, the idea of primes should be superior to the original ones... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UltimateSpinDash Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I don't think it's as big of a problem as some in this thread make it out to be. But yeah, Frost Prime and Mag Prime (I understand DE staying away from Excalibro Prime due to the major ****storm) are still waiting for their buffs. And Ember Prime only gets 25 Armor compared to Ember, while not even having extra polarities. Thing is, I'm not sure if DE knows how far they want to go regarding Prime stat buffs. They may not change the older primes (even Rhino and later) until they know for sure how far the buffs should go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StonedMakak Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Yeah, but are we just going to rely on those who want primarily cosmetic items? If that's the case then it's gonna be pretty tough trying to continue the game and justifying to players why some things are better than others, but some things aren't. (I.e. Prime weapons being stronger variants, but Prime Warframes are not.) Not to mention it helps to shore up some of the lacks or help along the strengths of each frame. Rhino getting his speed buff, Loki and Volt some extra energy. Added stats like those are helpful, I just wish all Prime frames had them to make it even across the board. I get ya. I have nothing against Primes getting some bonuses to alleviate their weaknesses or reinforce their strengths, as long as it does not make the original redundant, because of the P2W issue and total randomness of the current Void (with Token system it would be another case entirely). Just sayin', the OCD people are the best clients since they constantly need slots, potatoes, forma... They will scream and kick but in the end they will farm the Void anyway, until their PC/Console melts, and buy stuff just because it's Prime. Maybe that's why DE is apparently not giving a damn about which Primes get what - they may think that they don't have to bother. Edited March 26, 2015 by tisdfogg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marthrym Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 I get ya. I have nothing against Primes getting some bonuses to alleviate their weaknesses or reinforce their strengths, as long as it does not make the original redundant, because of the P2W issue and total randomness of the current Void (with Token system it would be another case entirely). Just sayin', the OCD people are the best clients since they constantly need slots, potatoes, forma... They will scream and kick but in the end they will farm the Void anyway, until their PC/Console melts, and buy stuff just because it's Prime. Maybe that's why DE is apparently not giving a damn about which Primes get what - they may think that they don't have to bother. I sincerely hope that's not it.^^' Though I am afraid it just might... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlphaHorseman Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I get ya. I have nothing against Primes getting some bonuses to alleviate their weaknesses or reinforce their strengths, as long as it does not make the original redundant, because of the P2W issue and total randomness of the current Void (with Token system it would be another case entirely). Just sayin', the OCD people are the best clients since they constantly need slots, potatoes, forma... They will scream and kick but in the end they will farm the Void anyway, until their PC/Console melts, and buy stuff just because it's Prime. Maybe that's why DE is apparently not giving a damn about which Primes get what - they may think that they don't have to bother. The system isn't pay to win. Although it takes time to get what you want, anything in the game is attainable through hard work and luck. Technically speaking, the Primes actually are the Originals, and the ones we have on the star chart are pretty much the cheap mass produced version of them. Makes sense for the Primes to be superior to their vanilla and mass produced counterparts. True, but that's a small group when you're looking at the vastness of the player base that DE could (and at the moment do) attain. They'll farm the Void no matter what, yes, but they'll do it because of completionism. The remaining players won't, they'll leave and find another game that has something to offer them at the end of the game that isn't just skins, but actually makes a difference and shows them progression other than a shiny version of the gun they already had. I hope they do go back and fix up the old primes to have better stats, as it helps them along and gives the primes some distinguished feels outside of just looks from their regular counterparts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bezeloth Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 (edited) Im not even mad about armor but the energy increase is ridiculous. It doubles the energy from normal frame at lvl 30. FREAKIN 300 ENERGY Thats a free flow! its too much. Edited March 26, 2015 by Bezeloth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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