Void Rotation C Drop Rates Remain Broken, Something Still Needs To Be Done

[cyrus106]

As some of you may recall, I made the original 'Rotation C' Topic back around christmas, and it's been about 3 months since then. DE has since addressed both my topic and this issue of rotation C, and no clear solution or fix has been made for void drop tables. I originally addressed this around the beginning of U15, and since it is now U16 and the old topic has gotten WAY too large, I've decided to create a new topic with the same general idea.

For clarification, here is the old topic

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/367980-void-drop-tables-rotation-c-was-stealth-nerfed-please-raise-awareness-of-this-issue/

And here is the devs addressing the issue of rotation C drop rates

http://youtu.be/q9HDi0-FklQ?t=38m

What is wrong with Rotation C drop rates, exactly?

They're screwed up, big time.

Firstly, remember the line in the prime gear drop location topic that stated that rotation c had a 100% guaranteed prime drop? That line was removed from the topic without a word from the devs, take a look:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/172911-prime-gear-drop-locations/

Why was this done? The rotation c prime part rewards felt satisfying, you had a clear, fair goal set in place. Then the void trader was released and everything went downhill. We can logically assume the 100% drop rate of prime parts in rotation C was removed to prevent massive ducat farming, but if that's the case I honestly don't think it was the best solution, as it only further increases the height of the grind wall. If players really want to farm 20 waves of t4 defense or 20 minutes of t4 survival, reward them with these parts/ducats, don't punish them and give them their 475th forma blueprint, because many of us are tired of that. I understand that forma is important for player progression, but it was needlessly forced and squeezed into nearly every void drop table, including non-endless missions such as capture, exterminate, and mobile defense. This is frankly, ridiculous. All I ask is that you keep forma and other misc items (such as cores, o cells, whatever) inside of rotation A, and maybe rotation B, but keep them FAR AWAY from rotation C.

Now, for those of you that are very lucky or simply unaware of this issue, a picture is worth a thousand words. I can't just make such bold claims about screwed up forma rates and such without some evidence, can I?

I still have plenty of screenshots of player's rewards both inside and outside the void, and quite frankly they're disturbing.

These pictures are of any screwed up rotation c rewards outside of the void (Sabotage key farming, anyone?):

Now, as I stated in my previous topic, refrain from posting "that's just bad luck bro" because there's a difficult between "luck" and diluted tables filled with junk to make farming feel more like a punishment, a chore. None of us expect the newest shiny prime parts to just be handed to us, but it'd be nice to have a consistent source of prime parts and ducats from rotation c, considering that ducat prices keep getting higher and higher for void trader items.

To risk sounding like a broken record, this topic is NOT pointing out bad luck, or RNG. It is talking about unnecessary junk being added to rotation C that should be kept in rotation A and B

To anybody that wants more info on the screwed up drop tables, PM me and I will link you to reliable resources about the borked drop tables

Edited March 25, 2015 by cyrus106

[RPrimed]

You forgot that this also implies higher plat market prices since the rotation c parts are so hard to get

[Dualstar]

Isnt it a bit pointless talking about it now that its known that the void is going to get nuked in a few months?

 

Seems a waste of time to me to shove the tables in a blender now only to have to do it again when everything gets scattered across the current star map.

[TheGuyver]

The rotation c prime part rewards felt satisfying, you had a clear, fair goal set in place. Then the void trader was released and everything went downhill. We can logically assume the 100% drop rate of prime parts in rotation C was removed to prevent massive ducat farming, but if that's the case I honestly don't think it was the best solution, as it only further increases the height of the grind wall.

 

Bingo, too bad a lot of people don't realize this and just fly off the handle about drop tables.

[RoninJed]

Stuff like this gets brought up all the time and the response (or excuse) for any f2p game like this is and will always be Rng is Rng. Now I do believe that is the case most of the time but when someone like yourself shows some proof then it makes me wonder...

[cyrus106]

Isnt it a bit pointless talking about it now that its known that the void is going to get nuked in a few months?

 

Seems a waste of time to me to shove the tables in a blender now only to have to do it again when everything gets scattered across the current star map.

I'd say no, just as other things on the devstream haven't actually been carried out, we don't actually know how the void tables are going to be addressed, so this topic is still relevant

[Tails-san]

First, I'd like to simply state that Rotation C was NEVER a guaranteed prime part. The line you mention stated that Rotation C would always be a Prime Part or Forma, not simply always a prime part. This is to say, Rotation C would not give you the miscellaneous items like resources. In T4, that line was even further edited to say that fusion core packs were valid for rotation C.

 

That said, it SHOULD be a guaranteed part from rotation C. Having forma blueprints in the non-endless missions, especially tower 1, is fine, in my opinion, as these can be completed relatively quickly compared to a rotation C endless.

 

 

Isnt it a bit pointless talking about it now that its known that the void is going to get nuked in a few months?

 

Seems a waste of time to me to shove the tables in a blender now only to have to do it again when everything gets scattered across the current star map.

I doubt this will be pointless at all. I suspect that once the void is destroyed as they mentioned, it will still be more or less the same system, it just won't always be IN the void.

[Dualstar]

I'd say no, just as other things on the devstream haven't actually been carried out, we don't actually know how the void tables are going to be addressed, so this topic is still relevant

Well theres alot we dont know about yet, but i doubt DE is going to destroy the status quo just to make everything worse.

 

At least not intentionally.

[cyrus106]

Well theres alot we dont know about yet, but i doubt DE is going to destroy the status quo just to make everything worse.

 

At least not intentionally.

While I agree with your reasoning, I still feel this issue should be addressed because it's a relevant issue in the present game

[Bibliothekar]

Isnt it a bit pointless talking about it now that its known that the void is going to get nuked in a few months?

Looking at Sheldon's record in "fixing" drop tables so far, I'd place a bet that they'll even have to phase out Mag Prime and what came with her before the void drop tables are finally reworked. Don't get me wrong, I like Captain Spoilers, but sometimes I just want to kick his shin repeatedly ...

 

Stuff like this gets brought up all the time and the response (or excuse) for any f2p game like this is and will always be Rng is Rng.

RNG by itself is fine, even paid games use it (e.g. for the items shops offer). Even weighted RNG, as Warframe uses it, is fine to a certain extend (to ensure that rare and legendary items drop less often and stay, well, rare and legendary). What's not fine is to lock down the drop tables like DE did after someone went checking and called them out on certain parts having a drop chance of hardly 1% (don't remember the exact number right now) - and that was even back when the void wasn't as crowded as it is today.

[DoomFruit]

Looking at Sheldon's record in "fixing" drop tables so far, I'd place a bet that they'll even have to phase out Mag Prime and what came with her before the void drop tables are finally reworked. Don't get me wrong, I like Captain Spoilers, but sometimes I just want to kick his shin repeatedly ...

 

RNG by itself is fine, even paid games use it (e.g. for the items shops offer). Even weighted RNG, as Warframe uses it, is fine to a certain extend (to ensure that rare and legendary items drop less often and stay, well, rare and legendary). What's not fine is to lock down the drop tables like DE did after someone went checking and called them out on certain parts having a drop chance of hardly 1% (don't remember the exact number right now) - and that was even back when the void wasn't as crowded as it is today.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1mrr5j/1007_datamined_reward_tables/ is what happened back in update 10.0.7 - 0.67% chance for a boar prime receiver amongst other things.

[cyrus106]

In DE's defense, current drop tables arent horribly weighted (I know for a fact that %s arent <5%) I just feel that there is too much junk diluting the table

[Bibliothekar]

That doesn't change the fact that they encrypted the drop tables so we can't check for ourselves, though. Not like "security through obscurity" ever works in the first place, but this isn't even done to secure them against people potentially fiddling with the game files - but to keep us from checking if DE is lying to our faces again. I don't know about you, but to me, this move says "you cannot trust us" quite loudly.

[xethier]

That doesn't change the fact that they encrypted the drop tables so we can't check for ourselves, though. Not like "security through obscurity" ever works in the first place, but this isn't even done to secure them against people potentially fiddling with the game files - but to keep us from checking if DE is lying to our faces again. I don't know about you, but to me, this move says "you cannot trust us" quite loudly.

 

DE is a corporation, Warframe is a game/product they're trying to SELL you.

Why are you even considering trusting them?

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing them. But that's like telling your employees how much money you're making off of them per hour.

Duh?

[Hidaru.]

Solution! Make Rotation A B C D. IF they have to keep keys in the void and I dont mind forma tbh, Keep keys,forma and Orokin cells in one rotation. Keep Primary and Secondary parts in one rotation. Warframe parts in one rotation.  Melee parts in one rotation.  

 

Edit: With it like this you dont need a prime vault. :D 

 

Edit2: Also, make it so you cant get the same reward twice in one mission(applying only to prime parts).  Longer Time, more rewards without feeling like you wasted your time. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by Daruru

[AlphaHorseman]

+1 OP, it seriously sucks that prime parts aren't a guarantee in Rotation C anymore.

[Bibliothekar]

DE is a corporation, Warframe is a game/product they're trying to SELL you.

Why are you even considering trusting them?

I don't know about you, but if I find out that I can't trust a business, I'm not going to buy there any longer. So it is in their best interest to have me trusting them, wouldn't you say so?

[BulletsforTeeth]

That doesn't change the fact that they encrypted the drop tables so we can't check for ourselves, though. Not like "security through obscurity" ever works in the first place, but this isn't even done to secure them against people potentially fiddling with the game files - but to keep us from checking if DE is lying to our faces again. I don't know about you, but to me, this move says "you cannot trust us" quite loudly.

*raises glass* Here here!

[XenosInfinity]

I was actually about to make a post about this myself, but then I saw this one and figured I'd add mine in.

 

 

Across 40 minutes, T3 Survival:

 

2x 3 Uncommon Cores

1x 3 Rare Cores

1x Mag Prime systems (this one dropped at 40 right before we left)

1x 3 Orokin Cells

2x Fang Prime blueprint

1x Bo Prime blueprint

 

I didn't EXPECT to get a Volt component, but to get nine cores out of a 40-minute run that cost both my teammates two revives (and it would have been more if my Frost Ward didn't reflect Bombard rockets) is almost insulting for a T3 Survival. Yes, they weren't on the 20-minute rotation, but I didn't actually go there looking for cores at all, and four of the eight interval rewards were taken up by resources...

[xethier]

I don't know about you, but if I find out that I can't trust a business, I'm not going to buy there any longer. So it is in their best interest to have me trusting them, wouldn't you say so?

 

a business is like a sociopath. no loyalty beyond their shareholders and only then under threat of being indicted or loosing their job.

customers come WAY down on the list. i trust a corporation to live up to the letter of what they've stated. and even then only as long as they are actually making money by doing it that way.

 

and while your sentiment was true 30 or 40 years ago, times have changed. i don't know of a single corporation that actually lives up to the standards you're expecting from them.

 

edit:

 

don't get me wrong a business =/= a corporation. many small businesses operate exactly how you're describing. once they reach a certain size, however, all of that goes right out the window.

Edited March 27, 2015 by xethier

[Angelic-Guardian]

guys, what if you can sell your forma for 2 ducats, would this make you happy?

if it does then mention it to DE instead of all of this.

the cores are the void rewards in the first place, so do not complain about them just because you already got them out of the void.

can anyone tell DE to make changes that those orokin Cells can power the kubrows instead of that green material.

[cyrus106]

guys, what if you can sell your forma for 2 ducats, would this make you happy?

if it does then mention it to DE instead of all of this.

the cores are the void rewards in the first place, so do not complain about them just because you already got them out of the void.

can anyone tell DE to make changes that those orokin Cells can power the kubrows instead of that green material.

Absolutly not, because we arent asking for forma to be "spooper rare" we're just saying it does NOT belong in rotation c with other junk. Forma can drop in A, and B, I can compromise with that, we just want them out of C. 2 ducats for a forma isnt that much, Id only get maybe 300 ducats. And Orokin cells are already overused for way too many recipes. Resouces simply do not belong in rotations, they further dilute all tables that have them. I feel that perhaps you dont entirely grasp the impact of loot dilution, and thats ok. Thats why I make these topics, to spread the word. And in response to your core comment, again nobody is asking for their complete removal. Leave cores in rotation A, take them out of rotation C Edited March 27, 2015 by cyrus106

[Fusen]

I absolutely agree with you, yesterday, me and my buddies got totally disappointed, after getting 3x a forma on rotation c in a T3 survival, in which we stayed for 100 minutes.

[AnkyPanky]

I've posted this question on the past few dev streams.. still no answer to it..

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/426563-coming-soon-devstream-49/page-17#entry4739472

 

Really wish DE would talk to us, instead of moving things around that won't help..

[Foxeclipse]

T4 def 1 random thing at round 5 and after that 3 x forma.... hello its t4 not t1 ~.~ that needs a change