To The People Arguing About The Synoid Nerf

[Forgotten_Aeon]

Yeah it was overdone. Out of the people that have a problem with the nerf, 10% are saying it was unnecessary, while the majority of us are saying it was just overdone. They should have just reduced base damage by 30-40%. That way, mods we forma'ed for (fire rate and others) would still have use, while the damage aspect would obviously have been toned down, which was the issue. No-one has to re-forma, those complaining about the damage would be appeased, and the ammo efficiency wouldn't be so bad as to make it almost useless in high level missions. Bam, simple and clean.

[holdenagincourt]

I find it odd that sometimes, DE makes these very drastic balance adjustments (in this case, a 700% increase in ammo consumption) when their patch/development cycle is so short anyway. There's a content update every week, and smaller patches several times a week. It's basically the ideal environment for slow, incremental balance changes.

 

Of course ammo economy had to be hit on SG, it was out of control efficient and is among the lowest-hanging fruit when it comes to weakening a weapon while retaining its feel/enjoyment. 7x is still a pretty high number.

 

But, that's why we're beta testers. These kinds of big swings happen on, e.g. League of Legend's PBE all the time, and never make it to live. At some point, things will reach equilibrium.

[Cubewano]

I find it odd that sometimes, DE makes these very drastic balance adjustments (in this case, a 700% increase in ammo consumption) when their patch/development cycle is so short anyway. There's a content update every week, and smaller patches several times a week. It's basically the ideal environment for slow, incremental balance changes.

 

Of course ammo economy had to be hit on SG, it was out of control efficient and is among the lowest-hanging fruit when it comes to weakening a weapon while retaining its feel/enjoyment. 7x is still a pretty high number.

 

But, that's why we're beta testers. These kinds of big swings happen on, e.g. League of Legend's PBE all the time, and never make it to live. At some point, things will reach equilibrium.

You can say that but from what I've picked up the last few weapons they've overnerfed never got this "equilibrium". DE doesn't like to revisit things if we're perfectly honestly, they do a thing, maybe tweak it minutely, then never look back. 

[HoakinBlackforge]

Im gonna say one thing:

 

Learn to play the game.

[Nihillian]

Drop vile acceleration for Ammo mutation and you are set. That's the only change needed. 

[ThePrimarchSystem]

Meta-complaint thread ...not good.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Did you took it to high end mission ?? The ammo consumption killed it. I'm talking about lv80+ enemy here he runs out of ammo in seconds. Rakta B or Marelok out performs it now way, way more.

 

Point is invalid.  that's in content that is factually unbalanced.  The balance gameplay ends at around 40.  Which is where most people honestly play.  I'd say less then 30% of the player base plays in the imbalanced portion of content.  If you want to play in that portion of the game go right ahead.  There are still weapons and frames that work in there.  The S. Gammacor is still plenty viable in the balanced content.

[Genzaio]

Another meta thread... gees..

Let the complainers complain..dont fuel the fire...

Edited March 27, 2015 by Genzaio

[WhisperByte]

Point is invalid.  that's in content that is factually unbalanced.  The balance gameplay ends at around 40.  Which is where most people honestly play.  I'd say less then 30% of the player base plays in the imbalanced portion of content.  If you want to play in that portion of the game go right ahead.  There are still weapons and frames that work in there.  The S. Gammacor is still plenty viable in the balanced content.

Balanced content ends at lvl80 enemies now. At least on the master race system.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Balanced content ends at lvl80 enemies now. At least on the master race system.

 

Was speaking about 40min or 40 waves.  

[WhisperByte]

Was speaking about 40min or 40 waves.  

And the post you quoted was speaking about lvl80 enemies and afaik that's the level of enemies in the Raid

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

And the post you quoted was speaking about lvl80 enemies and afaik that's the level of enemies in the Raid

 

Raid is unbalanced.  I'll re state.  Synoid gammacor works just fine in the content that a majority of the playerbase plays.

High end content is played by 30% of the playerbase or less.  In high end content not every thing works frame or weapon wise.

Just because 1 more weapon doesn't work well in unbalanced territory doesn't mean it's useless or over nerfed.

 

And maybe it's just the people I watch.  But everybody that I watch who plays in that content runs team health/ammo/energy restores anyway.  So it doesn't matter.  All this is is people whining that they can't run around using only one weapon the entire time.  They could have nerfed the damage into the ground (like most devs do to OP things) but the nerf is easily taken care of if you run restores in your high level content and use all weapons instead of just the S gammacor.

[(PSN)IkariWarrior83]

As I said in another thread complaining about the Synoid Nerf: the game does not revolve around one weapon.  

 

I was doing assassination missions last night (pre-emptively farming for chroma) and was able to fire a sustained blast from my Synoid for 35 seconds, and only drain half of my 105-round clip.  No weapon this powerful should be sustained for this long.  It needed a nerf.  

 

I literally yawn as I kill everything in sight.  That's a serious design problem because it reduces the game's strategy to a constant blare of BLANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN

[Evanescent]

Raid is unbalanced.  I'll re state.  Synoid gammacor works just fine in the content that a majority of the playerbase plays.

High end content is played by 30% of the playerbase or less.  In high end content not every thing works frame or weapon wise.

Just because 1 more weapon doesn't work well in unbalanced territory doesn't mean it's useless or over nerfed.

 

And maybe it's just the people I watch.  But everybody that I watch who plays in that content runs team health/ammo/energy restores anyway.  So it doesn't matter.  All this is is people whining that they can't run around using only one weapon the entire time.  They could have nerfed the damage into the ground (like most devs do to OP things) but the nerf is easily taken care of if you run restores in your high level content and use all weapons instead of just the S gammacor.

You know something is wrong when you NEED ammo restores to run normal content IN ADDITION to ammo mutation. I can't even control using burst fire because it eats up so much ammo for a millisecond click.

 

We all say it needed rebalance, but this is too much.

[Ryme]

I find it odd that sometimes, DE makes these very drastic balance adjustments (in this case, a 700% increase in ammo consumption) when their patch/development cycle is so short anyway. There's a content update every week, and smaller patches several times a week. It's basically the ideal environment for slow, incremental balance changes.

 

Of course ammo economy had to be hit on SG, it was out of control efficient and is among the lowest-hanging fruit when it comes to weakening a weapon while retaining its feel/enjoyment. 7x is still a pretty high number.

 

But, that's why we're beta testers. These kinds of big swings happen on, e.g. League of Legend's PBE all the time, and never make it to live. At some point, things will reach equilibrium.

 

The thing is, developers have learned that to minimize fallout in stat balancing, it's better to make one "big" nerf, and then slowly bring the number back up with small buffs to a point which the number of complaints becomes acceptable. The concept is pretty simple, as every time you nerf something, people will complain. Every time you buff something, people will show gratitude. Thus it's better to do the thing that generates complaints as few times as possible. 

 

Look at what lead to the original Gammacore buff. Look at what brought about the changes to Rataka Ballistica.

 

The rule still holds true, "squeaky wheel gets the grease"

 

So the more people make these repetitive blustered threads, the more likely the weapon will get buffed again.

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

You know something is wrong when you NEED ammo restores to run normal content IN ADDITION to ammo mutation. I can't even control using burst fire because it eats up so much ammo for a millisecond click.

 

We all say it needed rebalance, but this is too much.

 

Yeah.  Obviously your skill is what is wrong if you need ammo restores in normal content.  I was speaking about high end game content which is imbalanced.  If you are going to quote me actually read what I post.  Ignored.

[Not_Oliver]

Is it bad that I sold my maxed serration for plat and now only use the vaykor marelok :^)

[Evanescent]

Yeah.  Obviously your skill is what is wrong if you need ammo restores in normal content.  I was speaking about high end game content which is imbalanced.  If you are going to quote me actually read what I post.  Ignored.

Lol. I guess raids are not normal high level content. Okay! High end content is misbalanced.........so how should they be balanced? Please, enlighten me.

 

As for my skill.....lol I don't claim to be a nocopeprogitgud player. I'm on the average side. But as a player who's been here for 2 years and who rigorously tests every weapon he plays, I'd say I know what I'm talking about. In the Raid I experimented with as many different builds as possible incorporating ammo mutation- and the ALL FAILED. FAILED.

 

The problem is there is no way to control its monstrous ammo consumption. Problem is not dps but ammo consumption. Enemies die fast, but so does your ammo.

 

So before you call out on my skill, young one....check your own arguement :)

 

 

Edit: As for normal content-you know the problem? Whether I shoot lvl1 or lvl 100-synoid consumes 7.5 ammo PER SECOND. So anything outside of limited content becomes well nigh impossible ones enemies get to lvl 35-40 and the heavies start kicking in. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by Evanescent

[(XBOX)Knight Raime]

Lol. I guess raids are not normal high level content. Okay! High end content is misbalanced.........so how should they be balanced? Please, enlighten me.

 

As for my skill.....lol I don't claim to be a nocopeprogitgud player. I'm on the average side. But as a player who's been here for 2 years and who rigorously tests every weapon he plays, I'd say I know what I'm talking about. In the Raid I experimented with as many different builds as possible incorporating ammo mutation- and the ALL FAILED. FAILED.

 

The problem is there is no way to control its monstrous ammo consumption. Problem is not dps but ammo consumption. Enemies die fast, but so does your ammo.

 

So before you call out on my skill, young one....check your own arguement :)

 

~I'll ask you to again read what you first quoted.  But I'll make things simple on you since you seem to lack the ability.  When I stated "S. gammacor works fine in normal content" I was referring to content that is below the 40 minute mark or 40 wave mark.  Basically where most of warframe community plays.  The raid and content past the 40 mark falls into "high end content" where the game is imbalanced.  This is because past this mark enemy level, health, and damage all scale much higher and faster then we do with our gear.

 

~Secondly i'm not asking for DE to rebalance raids or high end game content.  When you enter high level play in any game TONS of things become not viable.  Only a few small things become able to carry into that content.  Which imo is fine.  Because if everything worked amazing in all areas of content the game would be bland.

 

~I don't care how long you have been around.  Just like in real life I treat everyone the same.  I respect and hold everyone's word to the same degree unless said person has managed to do something to make me treat them differently.  In this case All your testing can and has been done by several other players.  And any and all information you could possibly have will be somewhere around the internet.  I can learn what took you 2 years to figure out in less then one weekend of intense study.  So telling me you've been around for 2 years doesn't mean anything at all to me.

 

~My last point was that usually in high end content (which I have defined for you in this reply) most teams run large ammo/health/energy restores.  So your ammo consumption shouldn't be an issue.  And if you tell me that you shouldn't have to bring everything possible to be prepared in the most difficult content of the game then the fault lies on you and your team and not the game or nerfs.  Even in destiny (which most consider to have a poor example of raids) people bring ammo munitions in case the game doesn't grace them with enough drops.

 

The synoid nerf is DE telling players to actually use your other guns.  It still does insane damage.  And the high level content argument is null either because a) there are still plenty of other weapons and frames you can use in end game and the synoid still works fine for a majority of content.

OR b) in high level content it's best to be running with restores anyway, so the nerf it received isn't an issue.

 

I called your skill into question because you referred to needing ammo restores in normal combat as being a bad thing.  And since you quoted my post where I CLEARLY defined normal content and even pointed out raids I assumed you were referring to my normal content.  I will take partial blame as I didn't understand what you meant by normal at first (since you left it completely vague and then bolded it in your reply to try and make me look foolish.  Not clever) But you still hold majority blame for misquoting.

[Cubewano]

-snip-

Okay so basically it's okay for there to be end-game viable weapons but synoid gamamcor isn't allowed to be part of that because it's the synoid and you don't like it? I'm just puzzled, you argue for other weapons being end-game viable, yet also argue against people who want to know why a weapon that was very end-game viable went from that to not at all. 

 

and there is no secret message from de behind the nerf, they wanted to fix a broken weapon, they tried, the broke it another way. if they wanted players to have to swap between all their weapons all the time they'd make all weapons less ammo friendly, not a single weapon. but sure it's fine and dandy to bring ammo restores to high level content as a sort of remedy, but you shouldn't also have to bring an ammo mutation as well. if a gun needs two modes of ammo restoration to remain viable it isn't viable. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by Cubewano

[Forgotten_Aeon]

Okay so basically it's okay for there to be end-game viable weapons but synoid gamamcor isn't allowed to be part of that because it's the synoid and you don't like it? I'm just puzzled, you argue for other weapons being end-game viable, yet also argue against people who want to know why a weapon that was very end-game viable went from that to not at all.

That's how I read it too. "Synoid was nerfed to the point where it's not viable in high level content. Go use another weapon that is." When the argument is that Synoid should have been nerfed from THE high level viable secondary to A high level viable secondary. There's no reason to make it as bad as it currently is, and it should have been brought in line with the other viable secondaries. It's really pretty simple. Edited March 27, 2015 by Forgotten_Aeon

[Benore]

Meh Dex Furis better

 

It is worse in every meaningful way.

[Benore]

When the argument is that Synoid should have been nerfed from THE high level viable secondary to A high level viable secondary. There's no reason to make it as bad as it currently is, and it should have been brought in line with the other viable secondaries. It's really pretty simple.

 

I have a four forma'd Synoid Gammacor.  It wasn't just THE high level viable secondary.  It was THE weapon.  There wasn't anything comparable.  Soma prime, Boltor prime,  Amprex, Torid, other syndicate weapons, nothing came close to it.  Sure, you would bring a primary to offset its weak spots, but it was your bread and butter.  It is still the the best secondary, but now primaries are what they were supposed to be.  Your primary weapon.

[Cabadath5]

Oh look another thread made by people that don't play tier 4 survival missions past 20 minutes.

And yes playing for so much in endless missions is necessary thanks to the direction the devs are going with the game.

Also while there are still some really good primary weapons out there that can actually do something to missus [80] Corrupted Heavy Gunner Sanguine eximus, don't even dare to suggest we use melee in a "serious" mission.

Edited March 27, 2015 by Cabadath5

[Benore]

people who want to know why a weapon that was very end-game viable went from that to not at all. 

 

Just drop some fire rate from your build.  It is still the best secondary.