Survival Campers

[ravend]

keep in mind that campers get pushed out of there holes soon or later. Its not that big of a problem at all.

[BlutAdler]

keep in mind that campers get pushed out of there holes soon or later. Its not that big of a problem at all.

 

 

Oh yea definitely. And I count on it. I want to be a contribution to that as much as I can. That's why this thread exists, although the people who don't know how to read and comprehend think otherwise. 

[Cifrer]

To the OP: can you rephrase your original post please?  Having read through all 9 pages only to have you clarify at page 9 was kind of irritating. 

 

You're saying you don't have a problem with camping, you have a problem with people macro/afk camping.  Camping in and of itself is simply a choice of tactics.  Macro/afking on the other hand is more towards exploting because they're not playing the game, they're running a script to play for them.

 

 

 

 

To the people claiming Warframe is an MMO, no, it's not.  MMO implies more than 4 or 8 players interacting within the environs of the game.  Chat doesn't make a game an MMO.  If that were the case you might as well go ahead and call IRC an MMO.

 

Games like Planetside 2 or Fallen Earth or Firefall are more along the lines of the shooter mmo.

[Fionntan]

Oh yea definitely. And I count on it. I want to be a contribution to that as much as I can. That's why this thread exists, although the people who don't know how to read and comprehend think otherwise. 

 

Like stated above by Cifer, if ya want be taken seriously and lessen the confusion edit your original post and title on this thread pls; just by glancing at it and comparing to 9 pages later of clarifying I can see why people flamed you and not so much fact they cant read... (plus not everyone going take their time playing detective with deciphering your points). 

 

On-topic, I can agree macros used in camps are the worst offenders to this game.... >-> is the reason why such knee-jerking nerfs existed in the past and then macro users cry about it...

 

Frankly, when I first saw it on Viver I was in disbelief such a thing was growing in trend in this game. I know and seen in other games use macros but... I guess it was bound to happen for those who take the cheap route and run a scrip instead. :c

Edited March 31, 2015 by Fionntan

[KracsNZ]

What robo just stated was my view..

 

My frustration is with the people who take anything that suggests farming and turn it into this "do it my way or your suck" atmosphere even though playing that way goes against the intended method of playing the thing. 

 

For example. I remember once going into Draco through public matchmaking and being reprimanded by some random player telling me to stop running around and killing stuff, that I was messing up the spawn for him and his trinity who were sitting there spamming. This is common knowledge about people who do this, and I choose not to play with people who do this, however when things like this happen it gets frustrating and alarming.

 

Alarming because it's becoming the general thing to do.

 

If you want to do that stuff do it with your friends/clannmates and stop pushing it on others.  

 

Why the hell would I make a thread about this stuff if it didn't effect me through public gameplay? 

 

What, do you think I go and ask if people do this stuff and then make threads about them doing it?

 

No, I'm tired of hosting parties and inviting people only to have them try and demean my way of playing by saying its lesser than their camping/hallway hero methods. 

 

Thing is you didn't state that at all in your initial post, as Cifrer says. Also the comment 'people who don't know how to read and comprehend' when the initial post is as vague as that? Wow.

 

Your initial post should of had the detail in it to begin with, you know, something along the lines of 'I don't like joining public games and being told to sit in a corner while peps spam farming powers' might of helped. On that allot of people will agree with you, including me.

[Lordmotav]

"they don't play my way so let's nerf it"

thats what i read

Unfortunately for you, thats what usually happens. Then people like you throw a fit like a child about it.

 

ITS THE SONG THAT NEVER ENDS

[UseNet]

New fad of void farming?
It's been a fad since i started playing two years ago. And most likely before that.
 

 

you all swoop to forums to cry out your hearts.

Just like OP.

[EversorMetus]

Maybe DE should fix the freaking spawn mechanic first. I had several survival runs that spawned very little enemies and life supports did'nt drop until 7-9m. I want to go 40m and don't feel like loosing my RNG earned keys for a RNG mechanic so I camp. 99.99% effectiveness.

[SanctumDraconis]

"they don't play my way so let's nerf it"

thats what i read

NO he said that when DE decides to change certain mechanics that allow playing lame, you, the lazies" will cry a river over it...

[smithf]

Disclaimer:
Playing-wise, I am actually mostly neutral on "camping". When joining or hosting one, I just ask the squad before mission start whether we should camp or not (mostly to decide on armanent mix). I am actually ok with either (the question merely to make me decide what to bring). Below are just personal opinions.

1. Scope of the "Problem"
In the basic way, camping problem only affects the squad involved. If all are ok with camping, there is no problem. If all agree on not camping, there is no problem. Problem only arises when there is disagreement and no side willing to yield. Convince or Disband. Problem solved (?)

As for people who just felt unfair because campers gets more loot/efficiency, the issue becomes personal. I don't feel that camping is cheating. Thus, I won't consider this at all. (i.e. casual version: "not my problem")

2. Camping != Farming, Camping != Cheating, Farming != Cheating
Just my opinions, from my own experience in game, so may not apply to all.

And although there may be people whose intention is "farming" (which is a concept independent of camping) and do it mechanically, I actually like the feeling of trying to defend a spot and felt the pressure rising as enemies gets stronger etc. At least to me, "camping" is not a means of "farming", it is a style of playing.

At least in the camping types that I run with, I actually felt more like the squad is working together. To camp well, the roles of the squadmates becomes more defined. When the camp is efficient, we felt that the efficiency is born from the teamwork, and there born both a sense of pride, as well as appreciation of our team mates. (kinda like going through a ritual where we shed blood together, thus bonding as Tenno brother/sisters?)

In this respect, I often enjoy "camping" missions better than in survivals where people just fight for themselves (regardless of stuff like spawn control blah blah, which is a concern of "farming"). It could be because I am lucky that the groups I run with (mostly PUG) are pretty cool people in general (could be because there is a natural selection when we do T3/4, so we get players who are more experienced and less hot-headed?)

And even when my own intention is not "farming" (unless we consider trying to get a particular prime part for the first time farming? I certainly don't collect stuff to sell for plats), I don't consider farming cheating. the "farmers" spend time and effort to collect the loot and I don't see why trying to do it more efficiently but legally (without stepping into bug-exploits etc) is wrong.


3. Changes? Yes, in the positive/constructive manner
(instead of artificial nerfs. e.g. the AFK system better not impede any playstyle which should be "legal")

I am not opposed to changes actually. But I proposed that the efforts be spent to make survival more cooperative and camping, a valid playstyle, more fun. E.g. More interact-able environmental things that allows more cooperative play, like remote toggle for doors (to redirect enemy flows), resource/healing dispensers to help the group, hacking security consoles to temporarily activate some security stuff. Esp features that can help reinforce, defending certain locations, sort of like being the defenders in the castle siege.

 

But No to things like "penalty" for a group staying in an area, that kind of bs. (sorry for strong language. but this is how I feel). It's like slapping all the Defense Missions in the face.

4. Summary
* Camping is not necessarily Farming, and Farming itself, is not "wrong".
* Camping != Exploits (though bug-exploiting will often involve camping)
* Camping can be a valid (and fun) play style (more cooperation to make it work)
* Camping should not be discouraged, but in fact, should be expanded on, esp the theme of cooperation. (but I do agree that direction should be towards more fun, than more farming)

[Noble_One]

Here's to hoping the DE addresses this new fad of "farming" in the void.

 

Had someone tell me the best way to get to 40 minutes in Survival was to use this new method of "camping" in the voids. 

 

People don't learn from Viver and E-Gate that people are shooting themselves in the foot. 

 

Ridiculous.

 

 

by no means is this new. camping has been in void for quiet some time and really there is no problem with nor does it need to be addressed. with camping yes it may be boring but for most that are in higher tiers they are there for specific items and camping just makes it easier to achieve that time. with camping the mobs will all flow to one point which makes it easier for everyone to gain exp and items. this also makes it easier to grab supply drops for mobs without having to go back 5 rooms to grab some that you or people missed.

 

now granted in low tiers ideally camping makes little sense since you can normally get to 40 mins blindfold but people still like to do it for the efficiency. if anything if you are host and its your key, just lay down the rules before going in by saying "we are not camping" people will agree or leave.

 

your key, your rules 

[BlutAdler]

Thing is you didn't state that at all in your initial post, as Cifrer says. Also the comment 'people who don't know how to read and comprehend' when the initial post is as vague as that? Wow.

 

Your initial post should of had the detail in it to begin with, you know, something along the lines of 'I don't like joining public games and being told to sit in a corner while peps spam farming powers' might of helped. On that allot of people will agree with you, including me.

 

 

Well you guys can't have it both ways. You can't bash my post for not having enough detail but at the same time interpret a bunch of stuff from my post and put words in my mouth. I didn't right a poem or novel. I wrote a few short sentences that were meant to be taking at face value. Things weren't asked. They were assumed. 

 

And as I commented I expanded on my point of views as the discussion grew. How elaborate did you want the first post of this thread to go? I kept it short and sweet. 

 

It was a thread directed to DE or any community managers who can see this, and I pointed out the fact that people cry out during the times things are changed but then go right back to doing something that caused that change in the first place. 

Edited March 31, 2015 by BlutAdler

[BlutAdler]

by no means is this new. camping has been in void for quiet some time and really there is no problem with nor does it need to be addressed. with camping yes it may be boring but for most that are in higher tiers they are there for specific items and camping just makes it easier to achieve that time. with camping the mobs will all flow to one point which makes it easier for everyone to gain exp and items. this also makes it easier to grab supply drops for mobs without having to go back 5 rooms to grab some that you or people missed.

 

now granted in low tiers ideally camping makes little sense since you can normally get to 40 mins blindfold but people still like to do it for the efficiency. if anything if you are host and its your key, just lay down the rules before going in by saying "we are not camping" people will agree or leave.

 

your key, your rules 

 

 

This is the ideal response to any discussion. And I wish people would follow his example.

 

He didn't comment immediately trying to insult me because he disagreed or because of whatever deep hatred he wanted to spew for asking to address something, or because he had overgeneralized notions about me. 

 

In direct response to you Noble, I actually feel that it should be addressed because it sets a precedent that teaches new players how to get away with playing the game without playing the game.

 

In addition to that, its frustrating trying to find people who assume that you're going to follow what everyone else is doing and "camp".

 

But in response to your solution, I do do that already. I recruit people with a simple "Not camping' at the end of my advertisement. 

Disclaimer:

Playing-wise, I am actually mostly neutral on "camping". When joining or hosting one, I just ask the squad before mission start whether we should camp or not (mostly to decide on armanent mix). I am actually ok with either (the question merely to make me decide what to bring). Below are just personal opinions.

1. Scope of the "Problem"

In the basic way, camping problem only affects the squad involved. If all are ok with camping, there is no problem. If all agree on not camping, there is no problem. Problem only arises when there is disagreement and no side willing to yield. Convince or Disband. Problem solved (?)

As for people who just felt unfair because campers gets more loot/efficiency, the issue becomes personal. I don't feel that camping is cheating. Thus, I won't consider this at all. (i.e. casual version: "not my problem")

2. Camping != Farming, Camping != Cheating, Farming != Cheating

Just my opinions, from my own experience in game, so may not apply to all.

And although there may be people whose intention is "farming" (which is a concept independent of camping) and do it mechanically, I actually like the feeling of trying to defend a spot and felt the pressure rising as enemies gets stronger etc. At least to me, "camping" is not a means of "farming", it is a style of playing.

At least in the camping types that I run with, I actually felt more like the squad is working together. To camp well, the roles of the squadmates becomes more defined. When the camp is efficient, we felt that the efficiency is born from the teamwork, and there born both a sense of pride, as well as appreciation of our team mates. (kinda like going through a ritual where we shed blood together, thus bonding as Tenno brother/sisters?)

In this respect, I often enjoy "camping" missions better than in survivals where people just fight for themselves (regardless of stuff like spawn control blah blah, which is a concern of "farming"). It could be because I am lucky that the groups I run with (mostly PUG) are pretty cool people in general (could be because there is a natural selection when we do T3/4, so we get players who are more experienced and less hot-headed?)

And even when my own intention is not "farming" (unless we consider trying to get a particular prime part for the first time farming? I certainly don't collect stuff to sell for plats), I don't consider farming cheating. the "farmers" spend time and effort to collect the loot and I don't see why trying to do it more efficiently but legally (without stepping into bug-exploits etc) is wrong.

3. Changes? Yes, in the positive/constructive manner

(instead of artificial nerfs. e.g. the AFK system better not impede any playstyle which should be "legal")

I am not opposed to changes actually. But I proposed that the efforts be spent to make survival more cooperative and camping, a valid playstyle, more fun. E.g. More interact-able environmental things that allows more cooperative play, like remote toggle for doors (to redirect enemy flows), resource/healing dispensers to help the group, hacking security consoles to temporarily activate some security stuff. Esp features that can help reinforce, defending certain locations, sort of like being the defenders in the castle siege.

 

But No to things like "penalty" for a group staying in an area, that kind of bs. (sorry for strong language. but this is how I feel). It's like slapping all the Defense Missions in the face.

4. Summary

* Camping is not necessarily Farming, and Farming itself, is not "wrong".

* Camping != Exploits (though bug-exploiting will often involve camping)

* Camping can be a valid (and fun) play style (more cooperation to make it work)

* Camping should not be discouraged, but in fact, should be expanded on, esp the theme of cooperation. (but I do agree that direction should be towards more fun, than more farming)

 

 

You as well, thank you very much for your sound  contribution to the discussion and not resorting to the toxicity this community has grown accustom to. 

[Cifrer]

Well you guys can't have it both ways. You can't bash my post for not having enough detail but at the same time interpret a bunch of stuff from my post and put words in my mouth. I didn't right a poem or novel. I wrote a few short sentences that were meant to be taking at face value. Things weren't asked. They were assumed. 

 

And as I commented I expanded on my point of views as the discussion grew. How elaborate did you want the first post of this thread to go? I kept it short and sweet. 

 

It was a thread directed to DE or any community managers who can see this, and I pointed out the fact that people cry out during the times things are changed but then go right back to doing something that caused that change in the first place. 

 

All the more reason for you to elaborate in your original post so that if it does get read by DE or CMs or whomever you want to read it, they can quickly and easily understand what you are trying to say.  As opposed to having to wade through 10 pages of bickering to figure out what you really mean.

 

You might have intended to keep it short and sweet, but it doesn't contain enough vital information.  It's not concise, it's open ended and highly open to interpretation.

[(PSN)Samjogo]

Life support isn't dropping in properly in sequence.  Played a T2 survival game and can't get no more than 2 life supports to spawn in.  What the hell is wrong with this game?

[Elenortirie]

Sadly people don't seem to understand the definition of certain acronyms and words, it's such a pity. They assume that MMO = RPG when it does not. 

 

MMO + RPG = Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying game.

MMO + 3PS = Massively Multiplayer Online 3rd Person Shooter.

 

Warframe is the latter. It isn't hard to discern what makes a Game an MMO or not. Having multiplayer support =/= MMO.

 

well I meant the guy I posted said that opnly way warframe is not an mmo is that was pure single player which is not true - there is a gap between just multiplayer and massive multiplayer - not saying wf is nt an mmo I'm just pointing out the logic fault in the post I was refeering to

[nms.]

Rather have strat campers (moving around in the same tile, or staying in one area in synergy, not the 4 tapping bots) than the new pub meta in regular survivals where they spawn and immediately run to different spread out tiles as far away as possible from anyone else, as if one of us had ebola, literally diluting enemy amount as they keep running across tiles in small numbers and hurting the entire team, since now nobody can't get the exp from each other's kill. Then they die and rage ensues since nobody instant-noclipped to their position two tiles over. Sometimes I think people don't know that exp is not split but copied. The worst part, is that the same behavior carries over to defense, mobile defense and excavation...

Edited March 31, 2015 by nms64

[Aodan]

Someone barely ever makes it past 30mins. Just like the raid content, eventually mobs greatly out scale the DPs you can put out. Thus camping is a viable tactic, just like egate was.

Stop trying to lump tactics in with macros. Any mmo that requires stupid amounts of grinding will lead ppl to use macros

[(PSN)Borengar629]

I don't get it. Honestly. I myself like to run around a lot and have fun with the enemies. But that doesn't mean that everybody should do the same.

I don't mind people sitting still in one place as long as they actively contribute to the mission in terms of killing stuff and collect life supports / activate life support when needed. And if I don't have to pick them up to regularly because that forces me to stick with them.

If they perform well enough I don't give a **** how they want to play the game.

[Flamingauss]

Hell I get resources, ducats, and credits...just spend 1 hour camp farming vs. going on like 50 different mission to get the same rewards. Might as well say RNG needs more RNG. Been playing the game since alpha, I've seen the way things are going. It's more fun to get the stuff you want faster than to wait forever to get it, now at least.

[Kartumterek]

How to fix survival

Enemies now target oxygen tanks, as they are seen as enemy equipment (dropped by The Lotus) after 20 seconds of sustained fire oxygen tanks will explode, dealing damage equivalent to exploding barrels

Edited March 31, 2015 by Kartumterek

[KiteoHatto]

How to fix survival

Enemies now target oxygen tanks, as they are seen as enemy equipment (dropped by The Lotus) after 20 seconds of sustained fire oxygen tanks will explode, dealing damage equivalent to exploding barrels

Funny you mentioned that, when i first started playing survivals i really did think that the enemy were going for the life support.

Edited March 31, 2015 by kiteohatto

[f3llyn]

Sadly people don't seem to understand the definition of certain acronyms and words, it's such a pity. They assume that MMO = RPG when it does not. 

 

MMO + RPG = Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying game.

MMO + 3PS = Massively Multiplayer Online 3rd Person Shooter.

 

Warframe is the latter. It isn't hard to discern what makes a Game an MMO or not. Having multiplayer support =/= MMO.

 

I get what you're saying but I disagree that it's an mmo. At best it's a co-op game with a multiplayer lobby system.

Edited March 31, 2015 by f3llyn

[(PSN)Borengar629]

How to fix survival

Enemies now target oxygen tanks, as they are seen as enemy equipment (dropped by The Lotus) after 20 seconds of sustained fire oxygen tanks will explode, dealing damage equivalent to exploding barrels

 

Brilliant... so we would have to use the pods being at 80% effectively losing 30% of it's effect. Why haven't they thought of this... oh wait....

[Kartumterek]

Funny you mentioned that, when i first started playing survivals i really did think that the enemy were going for the life support.

Doesn't it make perfect sense that they should?