Clan & Dojo 3.0 Ideas, Suggestions & Changes

[(PSN)ChickNsalaD]

Great ideas brother! Sounds like u put a lot of thought n to this. We need more of that! I certainly hope they use your ideas. They all sound great! I'm on board.

[JinzouJinn]

I'm leaving this link here about:

 

- Observatory 2.0 :

  starting missions from the dojo just like relays using the observatory tile.

 

- Dojo warframe specter npc's:

  The placement of warframe specters in your dojo (like decorations) to function as guards & make the dojo feel more alive

  They can stand still or could be made to walk/patrol a path set by the dojo architect.

  Imagine entering a dojo filled with npc warframe specters walking the halls of your dojo and looking around at the labs & reactors

  or enjoying the view at the observatory, etc, etc
 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/446345-dojo-concept-observatory-20/#entry5171557

Edited May 27, 2015 by Line2far

[Gurzil]

99% of what's here will have to wait until the dojos get moved to the relay servers. Until then dojos are pretty much backburnered indefinitely. Talking with the dev in charge of the dojos I was able to get that megathread for decor put up and the art dept is aware of it. Just need to wait for a time when DE finds dojos worth revamping into a 2.5 or 3.0. 

 

It's not going to be anytime Soon.

[Agente_GentlePhoenix]

They need to "finish what they started..." I found difficult bring more people to war frame..

[Agente_GentlePhoenix]

so yeah I like this overhaul, but they won't do anything than use everything from this section to relays in my opinion

Edited June 7, 2015 by Agente_GentlePhoenix

[LouarnRuz]

Relays are well and fine, but the only people i see there are people going to exchange syndicate medals and a small crowd when the void trader is present. I've never seen anyone starting a game from the nifty mission lobby. There are no big discussions going there because the relays aim to fill the same funtions as the chat channels, but are less handy because you're forced to connect to it.There's no incentive for actually staying for a while.

It's more convenient to chat with people while doing small stuff on the liset like coloring or modding gear, taking care of kubrows or crafting.

Beside, i heard that the lotus helpers are in place on the english-speaking channels, the guys who were supposed to connect on a relay and answer questions ot new players, but we still have to get any news from someone at DE about the french-speaking ones, i know many of the nice guys who postulated, i'd know if something happened. How are we supposed to keep the relays alive if DE can't name these helpers in time ?

 

Dojos aren't community hubs for the clans either, people mostly go to trade and visit the labs, with the occasional duel in the arena. The obstacle course is boring and seldom used. Still, player-built castles are a interesting concept and should be kept alive as well as the relays system. We sometimes organize treasure hunts in our dojo, with prizes, it's a lot of fun. Dojos provide something for a clan to build together and are a virtual place to socialize among clan members and i think that DE should enhance that aspect, what of the promised changes to the giant loki statue ? Steve told in an old devstream that its appearance could be changed to represent a clan member, maybe the winner of a clan event. Clearly that room is a big work in progress left like that for months.
We need both interesting places for meeting new people, and places to gather with friends, because you don't have the patience everyday to connect on a relay and speak with tenno Stupidname of clan Stupidername :p and sometimes a bit pf privacy is nice.
I remember a time in Star Wars Galaxy when people would stay ingame for hours just to socialize, visiting cantinas on distant planets, watching at and listening to other players performing there or doing social events in their player-built cities; what amazed me was how they managed to do so many things with so few tools at their disposal, and moreover how some people actually played this game just for that, a game that they paid each month for !
Of course Warframe cant have the same appeal that a star wars game has, i don't think people are going to play Warframe just to dress up as space ninjas (yet), and that's not the aim of that game but what i find interesting is how well-thought social tools can make a game memorable and make people meet each other, which is further incentive to keep playing the game, which is something, to my mind, that DE is looking for, isn't it ?

Edited June 8, 2015 by LouarnRuz

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

i just read the first few lines and i'm thinking......

yes....yes...yes,yes,yes,YES!!!!

 

p.s. did you include statues of the Warframes? cause im getting sick and tired of passing by my Grineer statues.

......why do we have the statues of our enemies in our sacred halls?

 

ill keep reading now.

[LouarnRuz]

i just read the first few lines and i'm thinking......

yes....yes...yes,yes,yes,YES!!!!

 

p.s. did you include statues of the Warframes? cause im getting sick and tired of passing by my Grineer statues.

......why do we have the statues of our enemies in our sacred halls?

 

ill keep reading now.

Yes we would like to have statues of Warframes, even primes. Hey, let's make it a farmable ojective for clan members donating, fo example, ducats and ressources in order to complete amazing Prime statues. A status of Lotus would be nice as well, and maybe banners for the syndicates.

[nobody1special]

WHO WANNA BET DE TOO STUCK UP IN THEIR OVER-GLORIFIED RELAYS AND WILL NEVER EVEN REMEMBER THEY MADE DOJOS?

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

Yes we would like to have statues of Warframes, even primes. Hey, let's make it a farmable ojective for clan members donating, fo example, ducats and ressources in order to complete amazing Prime statues. A status of Lotus would be nice as well, and maybe banners for the syndicates.

statue pedestals would be nice too

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

i had a few suggestions, but it was in another topic

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/472562-clan-dojo-exterior-please-read/

WHO WANNA BET DE TOO STUCK UP IN THEIR OVER-GLORIFIED RELAYS AND WILL NEVER EVEN REMEMBER THEY MADE DOJOS?

i would imagine so.

[(XBOX)XGC IronFist]

So as we all know most, if not all of these ideas/suggestions have been posted already but I would just like to throw my two forma in since I haven't seen any new dojo updates in quite some time. Feel free to add to this or combine it into a mega thread (Which we need a new one of) Also excuse my lack of posts. I mostly just lurk here and on the Warframe Reddit. I'm not sure if some of  this should be posted here or in fan concepts so I'll post it here for now.

 

Thank you to everyone who has contributed to this thread so far! There has been some great ideas and suggestions. Hopefully some of these get looked at and considered. I'll try and update this post with new suggestions at least every two days. Look and see if your suggestion has been added. I might have merged your idea together with another suggestion.

 

1) Change the Observatory into the relay Mission Control room. This seems to be what everyone wants to happen. It would be nice to just launch missions from there with clan members or make it into a whole new room (Clan missions? Its weird how bosses know what clan you belong to. Maybe another way clans could earn clan sigils or trophies to fill up that hall of honor?)

 

+ I'd like for the Hall of Honor to be an actual hall instead of a glorified cross connector to allow more room to place trophies/statues.

 

+ Replace the statue in the HoH with a holographic clan emblem, occasionally show various clan member Tenno with their name beneath it. (via SR-02)

 

+ Clan seniority recognition. Have a board in the HoH that shows clan member list, how long they have been with the clan, donations, etc.. (Based on (PS4)BeefThew's Thread)

 

2) Change the oracle room  into maybe a clan cephalon room (Cephalon Oracle? could be a former steward of the sanctuary/ rival to Simaris which would make it very knowledgeable and would make the oracle room being a prerequisite make sense at least to me) to make the dojo seem a bit alive and less empty and to make researching make a bit of sense since I don't see any tenno in labcoats researching new murder weapons. have mini cephalons/sentinels roaming around in research labs. (This should probably be in fan concepts)

 

+ Have it greet Tenno entering the dojo and like Ordis, let you know when certain research is finished. Maybe alert those with architect roles if the dojo is nearing energy capacity for another idea.

 

3) More space windows. I want to look out into that beautiful skybox more and it would also  liven up some of the connectors/halls since walls are long and  there isn't much wall decor to choose from. (Change some of the ceiling lighting into windows instead)

 

4) A meeting/council room for important Tenno warlord/alliance stuff. Clan message board included? Also moving the Orokin lab solar rail functions into the room, making the Orokin lab an actual lab. A feature of the Orokin lab could be researching kubrow genetics (fur patterns? different ear/tail styles?) hence the already kub in a tube in there. Maybe prototype orokin weapons powered by void energy? no idea really on this one.

 

5) More decorations or more added detail/functionality to existing ones.

 

+ More decoration placement freedom (via ADUNSAVEME's Thread)

 

+ Creative/Free camera mode for better decoration placement. Store existing decorations and the ability to move decorations and those awaiting resources around. (via ECHOALPHASUD)

 

+ Codex art wall decorations (via (PS4)shadowwraith_666)

 

+ Weapon racks for general decor or for functionality, be able to change weapon loadouts in dueling rooms. The stone lanterns in the conclave room are lit while the dojo's are stone cold. relay potted plants instead of having plants growing out of nowhere in my dojo and signs.

 

Dojo Stone Lantern:

 

Relay Conclave Room Stone Lantern:

 

 

6) A vault would be nice, but maybe add something like the treasury (or add in another function to the treasury) to donate resources. (Finally a home for my ridiculous amount of nanospores!)

 

7) More polychrome colors! (Color all the things at once if you want instead of visiting every connector) More rooms! I'd be fine with more interesting garden rooms (winter theme garden? It would be nice to spend some of my hoarded cryotic on something)  even or a two man race to the finish obstacle course or a shooting range course with targets spawning in randomly or in set locations like SSB (Super Smash Brothers), "Break the Targets" kind of deal.

 

+ Larger assortment of dueling rooms. (More participants, larger dueling field, cover, etc...) Set spar rules for each dueling room. (No energy spawn, banning certain weapon types or specific weapons in a room but allowing them in another, etc..)

 

+ Dojo Simulacrum

  ++ Shooting range, weapons training room

  ++ Archwing obstacle course (Target practice and maneuver training) 

(via (PS4)HASSINITE, ARABTRWRIST, and many others)

 

+ Dojo Market Hub (Allow access to the market while in the dojo) (via ARABTRWRIST)

+ Dojo Arcade Room (with games like Wyrmius with leaderboards) (via ARABTRWRIST)

 

+ More 'dead end' type rooms or the ability to hide and re-show unused red doorways. (via VasMortua)

 ++ Allow the merging of corridors to get rid of unnecessary doors. (via (PS4)shadowwraith_666.) 

 ++Getting rid of the parent/child room system in favor of a wayfinding system. allowing any room to be deleted as long as there are alternate routes.  

 

+ Combine the barracks into one upgradable set of barracks, with each rank adding more cryopods and design to the overall room.

 

+ The Tenno codex aquarium or even a terrarium (Different planet habitats like the deserts of Phobos, forests of Earth and the frozen lands of Europa which could use some of that cryotic I have building up) would make for interesting "dead end" rooms. clan objectives to seek out different wildlife to scan/capture them when the wildlife faction gets fleshed out more to add them to the different habitats. Could even add in certain fauna as well.

 

8) Clan challenges and prizes

 

+ The ability to set daily, weekly, or monthly prizes and challenges to certain areas of the dojo (Obstacle Course  and Dueling rooms for example)

 ++ Prizes could range from a rare mod, prime part, credit amount, platinum etc.

 ++ K'O X amount of opponents in the dueling room, Get the fastest obstacle course time in a certain set period, etc

 ++ Could also attach rewards to earlier clan arcade suggestion, having to do with the leaderboards for certain games.

 

9) Replace the dojo elevators with the relay elevator lifts or choose between the two. Hate having to call an elevator after someone uses it before I could ninja slide jump into it or after a host migration when the elevators reset.

 

10) As much as I like spawning in right next to the trading post or in a pillar, I wouldn't mind having a small liset hanger with a holographic clan logo or two in the front like the ones from the solar rail tileset. (Maybe have those as place-able decor?) or make the solar rail docking station an actual docking station and make it into a dojo structure (The docking station is the first place you spawn on a solar rail, if you go to the first room terminal it is labeled a such with pictures of lisets flying in)

 

SR Holographic Clan Emblems:

 

11) I don't know if I am the only one but i like most of the solar rail rooms and could easily see some being converted into dojo rooms like the rail core room. Instead of having numerous reactors, just have one big upgradeable dojo core power room. (Also like the music from the solar rail tileset, also add it as an option to the dojo?)

 

12) Add the inventory option/view mod list to the menu while in the dojo to make trading easier without having to jump back to the liset or have someone else at the trade post with you.

 

   + I Just noticed that the relay's already have this implemented. Why not go ahead and add it to the dojo menu as well?

 

Don't get me wrong, I love our shiny new relays but if trading somehow got added to them a lot of dojos would be collecting dust. I started out by myself building my dojo up and even I am starting to only visit for starting new research and trades. I'd hate to see all of that work putting the whole thing together go to waste. 

 

Edit 1: Added suggestion via VasMortua to OP.

Edit 2: Expanded on a few ideas/suggestions.

Edit 3: Added a few more examples. Edited OP for readability.

Edit 4: Added suggestions via SR-02 & ECHOALPHASUD; Linked ADUNSAVEME's thread in OP.

Edit 5: Added suggestion via (PS4)BeefThew's thread. Linked in OP.

Edit 6: Added suggestion via (PS4)shadowwraith_666.

Edit 7: Added suggestion via posts on this thread and added a small bit of new information.

Edit 8: Added more suggestions via feedback from posts on this thread via (PS4)HASSINITE, ARABTRWRIST, Azimuth64.

 

 

Fist read this thread https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/436161-dojo-ideas-suggestions-changes-megathread/

 

 

 

 

As much as I like all of these(from the posted thread), I hate to say it but as a coder I can't see the majority of these being done anytime in the next year at least given the team that is in place... granted, I LOVE THAT LIST AND EVERYTHING ON IT --- INCLUDING ALL THE POSTS THAT FOLLOW IT. i.e. Statues, Prime statues and holographics of both, A FIRING RANGE <-- OH YEAH!!! --EXPANDED DUELING ROOMS (hopefully with handicap match settings; 2on1, 3on1, 4on1,5on1, 2on3, 4on5, 5on5. ect.)

 

However, given the MASSIVE coding undertaking THAT IS ALL OF THAT, it would take A LONG TIME to accomplish something like the grand majority of all that.---

SOOOO, "Help DE HELP US!" with a priority list. derived from the list above as-well-as include the following, "first???" (because clan management is important)

 

((PURPOSE OF THIS LIST- 

Most Clans have the goal to be as big and as awesome as possible, but what sets these clans apart from one another "FIRST" is the "essentials" [i.e labs and research, member capacity in correlation with member activity as-well-as member capabilities (raiding, boss farming, nightmare missions), perhaps even internal clan trading.] 

 "SECOND" To be a well established clan you first have to have the essentials, but once you've been playing for awhile, now (as a player) you start looking at how a clan is ran/managed, the types of culture within the clan.

Organized clan management and leadership is essential for any that hopes to have 1000 members, and in order to maintain those numbers (or ever growing numbers) over time clans have resulted in going outside the game by making websites to help manage their clan. Warframe is the first game to have the in-game/internal clan system done "right" and I think the following steps (or perhaps steps closely relating to them) is the right route/course for Warframe to continue to grow, and lead over all competitors.)) 

 

One thing above all else that I think should be added first are these priorities:

 

1) Clan log should show- "who" has donated "what" and "when" to "which" construction site.

2) Clan log should show- "who" has deleted or made anything.

3) Clan log should show (only to warlords or whoever has regulating permissions) who booted who from the clan or suspended or whatever.

4) Original warlord can lock rooms from being messed with by other warlords as well as being able to grant original warlord status to another war lord.

 

5) *****Source rooms (that are one stop shops for warlords and various other clan leaders) that have a large assortment of clan information and management tools for clan leaders with settable permissions to be allowed to have these controls as-well-as access to these rooms.

5A) These rooms could control info boards/kiosks throughout the dojo with information or schedules that pertain to that room, group or activity. i.e. Labs have a priority board of what to research next. Dueling rooms list the best top 50 fighters in the clan (or individual groups within the clan). Who are the biggest donaters/clan supporters (while also being able to donate resources to the vaults as well). Daily to weekly to even monthly Clan Schedule Board i.e Monday farming day for 'x' on planets, Tuesday unlocking nodes on planets, Wednesday resource farming, Thursday Clan trading day, Friday Void farming day, Saturday regular farming day for 'x', Sunday clan meetings, everyday is raid day at 10pm est.

5B) From these rooms you could manage members, make set categories/groups outside of the hierarchy of ranks (for example my clan has squads with a captain and lieutenant(s) and sergeants in charge of each squad that have approx 20-50 members each).

5C) You could manage things such as daily clan schedules, clan mail for each squad/group also for each squad's individual rooms as well within the dojo. Post tournament results for dueling or obstacle course, place somebody on probation or be able to suspend clan members from the dojo for 'x' amount of time ("create" a grey area of management tools instead of just demoting and kicking somebody). 

5D)Additionally (AND THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT) each groups individual room will have a an individual member profile board of what Warframes they have, what rank they are, and what mods they have set on those warframes for that board "TYPE" i.e. Raid board for that group, Conclave board for that group. (exclude all things dueling room related from this though, cause a lot of people don't want people to know what mods they have on them because they win a lot)

 

6) It may be silly for those clans that have "clan meetings," but "a clan meeting room" That has place-able kneel points like in the relays that your tenno can kneel at. This way you can put them anywhere in able order or fashion and have some animations like raising a hand, or continuous head shaking (that doesn't stop unless you make it stop) to say "no," and also continuous nodding(same) to say "yes". and an ability to hammer fist the ground making a loud bang like a judge in a court room with their gavel; this is just a funny feature where everybody could just pound the away at the floor continuously in anger, or celebration, or whatever... Something like all these things would actually make meetings fun and surprisingly easier to manage. 

 

7) Dojo/clan merging with the same "Trade terminal style system" to negotiate/preview what will happen when you merge and set it up automatically upon agreeing to the merger; if another clan wants to join a bigger and better clan, the Original Warlord can "liquefy the dojo into resources" and transfer them to the new "GAINING" dojo where they will negotiate ranks at the "Clan Merging terminal" (THE GAINING DOJO WILL HOST THIS TERMINAL). For example, the agreement would be for the Original warlord who is merging into the new clan to remain a warlord or whatever rank is agreed upon and set in the "Clan Merging Terminal" (DE, you guys figure out how to best work that out, but I promise members would love it, and only hate it if they made a poor decision to merge into a clan that would do them wrong in the end...Just let adults be adults, you provide the tools for them to use how they see fit.)

 

8) A voting system to remove an INACTIVE warlord even the original after 3 months on inactivity (to include the WARFRAME website activity as well).the voting system could be triggered by other warlords or the rank directly below if there was only one warlord. The new original warlord would be the first warlord who gained warlord after the original AUTOMATICALLY ect. all the way down to the join date of who joined first if the rank systems was misused.

 

9) (I forgot to include this earlier) Individual permissions per member "within" that rank. Also, individual room permissions per room... For example, the rank below warlord has been assigned architecture permissions, but you only want certain people within that rank to have them, so now you can assign them individually. Same goes for rooms within the dojo as-well-as adding/making rooms and adding things to those rooms.

 

 

What do you all think? What should "10) 11) 12) ect." be?

 

I'M GOING TO MAKE A NEW THREAD ( https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/514389-please-make-this-happen/ ) BECAUSE PERHAPS EVEN THOUGH I AGREE WITH "EVERYTHING" FROM THIS THREAD, I THINK A PRIORITY THREAD IS NEEDED THAT WOULD LIST THINGS FROM HIGHEST PRIORITY TO GET DONE TO LOWEST PRIORITY. VOLZIEN'S POST AND THIS THREAD IS PACKED FULL OF AWESOMENESS. IT WILL MAKE A GOOD REFERENCE.

Edited August 20, 2015 by (XB1)XGC IronFist

[(PSN)cwoody2020]

       Many of us use the Dojo to watch for potential trades. Although I know generally the extra resources that I have (BP's, mods, prime parts, etc) it is difficult to remember them all. So when I see a WTB thingamabobber I have to go to the ship to check my inventory. Just like the "relay stations" we should be able to check or inventory while in dojo. Also we should be able to trade in the "relay stations".

 

Love the game and wish people would stop complaining about greedy pull.

[yohaseo]

lets hope the op comes back to update this :P just recently found it and no update since about may really? anyways so yeah my addition to this ... obstacle course needs a rework due to parkour 2.0

[(XBOX)XGC IronFist]

       Many of us use the Dojo to watch for potential trades. Although I know generally the extra resources that I have (BP's, mods, prime parts, etc) it is difficult to remember them all. So when I see a WTB thingamabobber I have to go to the ship to check my inventory. Just like the "relay stations" we should be able to check or inventory while in dojo. Also we should be able to trade in the "relay stations".

 

Love the game and wish people would stop complaining about greedy pull.

 

Very VERY good point and suggestion!

 

I'm going to put that as number one in my thread with an updated post.

[Avadiel_tv]

I would suggest you something. As I started to play long ago and as I was already a clan leader I have build a dojo but we where a bit slowed by our level and we can't make a whole 1.0 skin dojo. I wish we could chose the skin of the dojo because my mate have more than once ask for this skin. So I suggest to have the possibility to chose our skin in the option of the room at least for those who have a 1.0 first Hall of clan.

I would say that I'am really enthusiast for the Volzein proposition 

Ps: You may have understand that I'm not speaking English as well as I would wish it but I hope you have understand me.

[ThymeL0rd]

I have thought about a lot of these ideas myself, and I certainly agree with all of them!! The Dojo in its current state is only really used to trade and get clan tech weapons. Thats it. I really feel the Dojo needs to be much more of a personal place Tenno choose to come to. I started a thread myself a little while back as per 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/507087-new-room-ideas-for-the-dojo/

 

A couple of your idea are repeated in a way, especially the navigation room/ observatory idea.

 

I also have a couple of further ideas more specifically aimed towards Kubrow functionality in the Dojo on this thread.

 

But this one is way more comprehensive than mine and i would quite like to see a lot of what is mentioned above implemented, good job!!

 

P.s. I wonder how the orbiter compartment will affect Dojos???

[Agente_GentlePhoenix]

I am still dissapointed about what they started, they didn't finish it properly, since the statue is not the one have the excal prime atleast, it does make a contradiction self.

[Volzien]

Looks like this thread got its soul punched back in by a nekros! Sorry for not updating this thread. I still play but real life has been busy lately!

 

So what things that need to be updated to my understanding are:

 

Dueling rooms need to be made a bit larger due to the addition of parkour 2.0

Obstacle course needs to a 2.0 due to being able to cheese it with our new parkour system.

Placeable warframe statues like the grineer statues we already have.

Clan mergers 

Kubrow Kennel/Adoption per ThymeLOrd's thread.

 

Also these were questions asked during the Reddit AMA that were actually answered:

 

Is it possible for us to have a better system for customizing our clan dojos?

 

This is something we can look at improving, clan system is on the radar for upgrades. -SM

 

.Are there any plans to adjust the research requirements of the Knux and/or set a more steady resource cost creep in the future?

 

Nothing planned for this.

 

Are there any plans to allow clans to downsize their research requirements once they drop tiers?

 

This is one of the longest burning QoL things that's needed resolution for a long time, and it is disappointing for us we haven't addressed it (and Clans overall). Clan down sizing (as well as some other Clan goodies, we need to freshen this up) is planned for update U18 timeframe. Downsizing is nearly done so it might drop sooner in 17.5. says SS

Edited August 29, 2015 by Volzien

[(PSN)xKAIOWAx]

Amazing topic tenno!! Well , i think we need turn our dojos places of proud , we need more decorations styles, new rooms as a space hangar , maybe thematics styles as a derelict ,old dojo style, biomechanics or orokin , something dinamic as relays, but s total urgent better editition tools ,i tired with blocked and locked rooms , we need change basics rooms ,  corpus and infecteds statues, maybe we can clone objects with scanners and use in dojo as decour, enemies pieces .  But better constructions and editions tools  s the most important in my opnion

[(PSN)CL4P-TP77]

A good idea I think should be add is to have rooms that a tenno should have to be a certain clan rank or higher to enter into. Those higher rooms should have research or a Kubro area for the higher ranking clan members. That way it could give low level members a reason to help out with their clan.

[Agente_GentlePhoenix]

[Volzien]

They are taking some community questions for Devstream 59 tomorrow and if you have one you can post it on the Devstream #59 topic post. I'll be adding a few questions myself later, mostly concerning the suggestions in this thread with a few other random inquires I have. If you've been following this thread please leave a question post there and feel free to link this thread. It would be great to see traffic back to the dojo feedback category. 

[(PSN)L-B-H-100]

can you add this to the thread, its in a separate topic, but im just wondering if you could place a link in yours

 

Clan Management 1.0

[nobody1special]

I suggest someone make a poll (i would but i'm too lazy). That way, DE may actually have some ground priorities as to what to work on to (hopefully) satisfy appease the insatiable desire of the majority of its players rather than have a list of everything... I see your list is nice, but nigh impossible to see priority...