Is Antimatter Drop Supposed To Randomly Do Pitiful Amounts Of Damage?

[taiiat]

You honestly think this is the same thing as a stat compression?

i don't know, if you read that post, does it say that anywhere?

the words i write are exactly what i mean for them to mean.

unlike most, i say what i mean.

at the end of the day, it was to be expected to happen sometime. you are not supposed to play Endless Missions forever.

you are supposed to play until you feel you want to leave.

sources of infinite Damage, infinite CC, or infinite anything really - does not support this intention from Digital Extremes.

these Endless Missions are purpose designed (in their current state) to hit you with a stick until you decide you've had enough and leave.

could they scale in a more Skill based manner? absolutely. would i rather a game that incentivizes Skillful play rather than 'i press button a lot'? most certainly.

but it's not this way currently and therefore isn't balanced around it.

Edit:

In my opinion, as a compromise, instead of multiplying the damage absorbed from an AMD explosion into another AMD by 4, they could make it less like 1.5 so that you don't need to make player rage (as much) and so that there are still benefits to this mechanic in the ability, otherwise, making the AMD absorb nothing is kinda over nerf. The minimum that it should do is at least absorb 100% of the explosion damage and not multiply it.

now we're thinking.

this sounds reasonable.

Edited April 28, 2015 by taiiat

[Kontrollo]

Also: what is not constructive about my post? Outside of nova, and valkyr, frame damage falls largely to the wayside when compared to weapons after murcury. This change to Nova leaves only valkyr as a frame with potential to output significant damage on her own, and she's heavily limited by being melee.

 

Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds? Sorry, but I can't take stuff like that seriously.

 

A frame with BOTH of the most powerful CC skills in the game losing damage ramp is in NO WAY comparable to a frame built entirely around damage losing said damage.

 

Anyway, Nova has one of the most powerful CCs in her 4 as well. Proof of that is that she's more sought after than Nyx in raids, a game mode which revolves mostly around coordination and CC. So that's not really an argument, either.

[Prany]

What does you investing in this game have to do with you or me knowing "Human Psychology" (why would you even capitalize that?)

 

And what we are doing is a discussion.

I am about to discuss how you have no idea what you're talking about and are just trying to sound smart.

Which is both pathetic and sad.

ALERT, ALERT, ANTI-INTELECTUALISM COMMENT! ABANDON THREAD!

[GottFaust]

i don't know, if you read that post, does it say that anywhere?

the words i write are exactly what i mean for them to mean.

unlike most, i say what i mean.

at the end of the day, it was to be expected to happen sometime. you are not supposed to play Endless Missions forever.

you are supposed to play until you feel you want to leave.

sources of infinite Damage, infinite CC, or infinite anything really - does not support this intention from Digital Extremes.

these Endless Missions are purpose designed (in their current state) to hit you with a stick until you decide you've had enough and leave.

could they scale in a more Skill based manner? absolutely. would i rather a game that incentivizes Skillful play rather than 'i press button a lot'? most certainly.

but it's not this way currently and therefore isn't balanced around it.

Edit:

now we're thinking.

this sounds reasonable.

Yes, yes it does. You directly compare the nerf to AMDrop to the old level compression change they made a while back. They are in no way, shape, or form analogous. One was a global rebalance of the levels and scaling on targets. The other is a direct nerf to a single skill on a single frame. Your analogy is flawed, and thus you have no basis on which to stand for that argument.

Furthermore: you just proved yourself incorrect.

• You ARE supposed to play endless missions forever if you have the capability to do so. This is PRECICELY why they are endless and not capped.
• Digital Extremes initially designed these "sources of infinite X" to be exactly that. How can something they design not fit their design paradigm?
• Endless mission are purpose designed to be ENDLESS. They are meant to test your capability to progress. Removing a frame's capability to progress while leaving every other frame with the same level of progression alone is in no way, shape, or form a good thing.
• You mention that you want it to take skill to progress rather than slamming a single button, yet you support the removal of THE ONLY SKILL-BASED PROGRESSION TOOL AVAILABLE TO A FRAME CURRENTLY. How can this be? You do realize that it actually takes skill to pull off chained AMDrops well enough to reach numbers effective on targets lvl 90+, right? Flying multiple fly-by-wire projectiles around at the same time can be very tricky, especially when they tend to like to orbit each other. Furthermore you have to be able to track which ones have been ramped and maintain the collision order properly. What part of this is "press 1 button repeatedly"? What part of this takes no skill?
• Again: Corrosive Projection, Corrosive Proc, and Viral Proc sources are directly balanced around endless progression. In fact: every single percentage based skill, proc, effect, or damage source is. This is a literal fact

Someone remind me again why I'm playing chess with a pigeon?

Do you not see how ridiculous that sounds? Sorry, but I can't take stuff like that seriously.

Anyway, Nova has one of the most powerful CCs in her 4 as well. Proof of that is that she's more sought after than Nyx in raids, a game mode which revolves mostly around coordination and CC. So that's not really an argument, either.

How does it sound rediculous? An Amprex or Ogris will always out-danage a frame like Saryn's AoE spam passed a certain point. A Lanka or Opticor will always out-damage a single target ability like ember's fireball. 99% of frame powers are more about secondary or primary utility than they are raw damage.

Pro-Tip: she is sought after for her damage output, not her CC. That's an added bonus. A slow will never be in the same league as a mind control or AoE stun followed by a long duration radial confuse that works on all targets that see the affected targets.

Edited April 28, 2015 by GottFaust

[SquirmyBurrito]

 

- Explosions from Antimatter Drop will no longer fuel the damage of other nearby AMD projectiles.

 

Can this change be given to Nyx's Absorb so that the magnetic damage absorption nerf can be removed? I'm referring to this "Only 10% of all incoming Magnetic damage can be absorbed.". If you guys can single out damage sources and prevent abilities from absorbing from specific sources, why not do that with Nyx's Absorb?

[Kontrollo]

How does it sound rediculous? An Amprex or Ogris will always out-danage a frame like Saryn's AoE spam passed a certain point. A Lanka or Opticor will always out-damage a single target ability like ember's fireball. 99% of frame powers are more about secondary or primary utility than they are raw damage.

Pro-Tip: she is sought after for her damage output, not her CC. That's an added bonus. A slow will never be in the same league as a mind control or AoE stun followed by a long duration radial confuse that works on all targets that see the affected targets.

 

Why are we suddendly talking about Amprex, Ogris and Saryn? I thought this was about how the AMD change prevents her from "legitimately dealing damage outside of Mercury". But please don't respond to this, I think we're done here. Or I am at least. (That means I won't respond here anymore. If you want to further discuss this, you can PM me.)

 

And spare me your pro-tips. I do raids on a regular basis, and Nova isn't there for her damage output. If you think that, you're probably just making it harder for yourself and your fellow raid participants. And I have yet to see a single AMD being used in a raid. She's there for her Molecular Prime's slow and maybe a portal or two.

Edited April 28, 2015 by Kontrollo

[taiiat]

Removing a frame's capability to progress while leaving every other frame alone

we've (or just i have, apparently) clearly seen over the years that Digital Extremes adjusts things a few at a time. rarely the entire game as a single blanket.

a few Weapons are balanced here and there, a few Mods are balanced here and there, a few Abilities are balanced here and there, Et Cetera.

is that better or worse than updates every 3 or 6 months? there isn't a good answer to that.

it can be expected that everything in general will act on similar terms in due time. then perhaps 'pushing the limits' will not consist of 'who memorized the most effective Cheesing method' and perhaps instead will be about something else (though i wouldn't be surprised if it was some other form of cheesing).

besides, Antimatter Drop is most certainly not 'the only way to progress' with Nova. it is a very powerful tool, but you by no means must rely on it to carry you.

[SayonaraChainsaw]

we've (or just i have, apparently) clearly seen over the years that Digital Extremes adjusts things a few at a time. rarely the entire game as a single blanket.

a few Weapons are balanced here and there, a few Mods are balanced here and there, a few Abilities are balanced here and there, Et Cetera.

is that better or worse than updates every 3 or 6 months? there isn't a good answer to that.

it can be expected that everything in general will act on similar terms in due time. then perhaps 'pushing the limits' will not consist of 'who memorized the most effective Cheesing method' and perhaps instead will be about something else (though i wouldn't be surprised if it was some other form of cheesing).

besides, Antimatter Drop is most certainly not 'the only way to progress' with Nova. it is a very powerful tool, but you by no means must rely on it to carry you.

Could you be more of a brown noser?

[BlueThingy]

Balance changes are aimed at the general level range, 50-60 being around the max.

 

Expect all weapons and powers be balanced around that.

 

If you can push endless missions to beyond that, good for you. Don't be surprised when things are changed though.

[H3RRD0KT0R]

Nerfing something only a few nova players would take the time and skill to use (as most are 4-4-4-4-4), and for no reason. The devs method for balancing things is too mysterious for me.

[TychusMechanicus]

Nerfing something only a few nova players would take the time and skill to use (as most are 4-4-4-4-4), and for no reason. The devs method for balancing things is too mysterious for me.

 

On one hand I agree with you. Chaining AMD requires cooperation and skill. Maybe only skill. But I honestly only rarely see that happen and even if I use AMD nobody else charges it so I'm alone in juggling the orb(s). A niche skill that is not widespread and mainly used thus it could remain highly rewarding if one mastered it. 

 

edit: I didn't mean using AMD is niche, albeit it's a rare sight in PUGs, I meant chaining AMDs to deal exponential damage is a rare skill among AMD dropping Novas. Most people don't even know how to mod her effectively.

 

On the other hand: nigh infinite damage isn't good in any game. AMD already does insane damage if charged with an appropriate weapon turning it into a massive 15m blast radius bomb. Giving it millions of points of damage over the course of a few minutes with skill is pointless at early levels and honestly: do you really need to stay in a single ODD mission bombing AMD for 4-6 hours on a normal day?

 

 

A bit of sidetracking here:

 

Can this change be given to Nyx's Absorb so that the magnetic damage absorption nerf can be removed? I'm referring to this "Only 10% of all incoming Magnetic damage can be absorbed.". If you guys can single out damage sources and prevent abilities from absorbing from specific sources, why not do that with Nyx's Absorb?

 

^^^^

So much this!

Let Nyx be charged with any damage source again.

If the goal of these changes is to remove damage soaking abilities being chained to infinite damage just exclude the other Nyx's Absorb blast from the damage sources. Making it Magnetic and ignore 90% Magnetic damage wasn't a healthy change. Now Absorb struggles against Grineer and only good to give you a quick toilet break against the infested as their damage resistance scales up faster than their damage output.

Incoming ability damage resistance auras and the enemy type's general high resistance against the dealt damage type does break this ability. Nyx completely dominated infested, especially after the change to toggle on Absorb but going from absolute domination to a glorified knockdown is a bit too extreme, especially if the main goal here was to stop two Nyxes juggling the absorbed damage between each other.

Edited April 29, 2015 by TychusMechanicus

[nipsen]

I have an Update to deliver on what's going on with Antimatter Drop (AMD).

 

AMD will have a series of changes/fixes coming in the next Hotfix - this is a preview of what you can expect on paper. The whole ability was given a serious 'under the hood' look, which has led to the following results:

 

- Fixed Antimatter Drop’s collision detection being affected by projectile scale on Host. Increased the collision detection radius for Clients to help compensate.

(...)

- Explosions from Antimatter Drop will no longer fuel the damage of other nearby AMD projectiles.

 

I guess these two hang together. But is it really a good idea to patch it up this way? At some point, a client is going to have more lag than "normal", and end up with the same issues as before. And you can't fix that by increasing the hit detection radius for clients even further, etc.

 

Imo, it would be better to keep it as it is, and start at the other end, by filtering hosts and rolling back clients when they lag too much to have consistency inside a given limit with the server. And then tweak towards that limit afterwards.