Synthesis Imprint Findings: Anti-Moa

[SaintLucifer]

We really need a lore thread to put everything we know so far together. So by what we have so far, this is what i could grasp of the lore:

 

-The Orokin was a caste society

 

-We had the upper castes like the government, military and temple ones

 

-We have the meat and bones of the empire, the corpus, which are the less nobles jobs like merchants and engineers for example. Those that survived the onslaught of the Tenno, later banded together to make what we know as the current Corpus faction.

 

-On the bottom we have a society of indoctrinated enslaved clones, known as the Grinner, that basically were tasked with everything you would never wish to do, like mining and cleaning the latrines. The survivors kept growing and cloning, till later they formed the new Grinner Empire. But without the Orokin tech, their cloning was faulty and now they are dying of genetic failure.

 

-On the side we seems to have some kind of law enforcing Guardian caste, like temple and lower Guardians. The Stalker seems to be one of the last living member of the Lower Guardians.

 

-And finally, not really citizens, we have the Tenno, tools of war created trough unscrupulous ways to fight the Sentient menace. After winning the war we seem to had turned against our masters and slaughtered everyone, then gone to sleep waiting for a signal to awake once more.

 

Did i miss something on the mess of lore we have so far?

[OnnaJReverT]

No, MOAs were already a thing, seeing as how his father referred to his creation as a MOA, implying he had prior knowledge of the type of robot his son was building. He also described the type of MOAs from his days after his son asked him if his was anything like the ones he remembers from the Empire days "...yea, we had ones that walked on two legs like that.."

no, that implies that the orokin used MOAs, however the kid apparently built a replica with simpler tech after their fall, which would eventually become more refined and mass-produced for the hordes of syntethic foes the corpus throw at their enemies today

[haolee510]

I'm pretty sure their showcase in trailer is concrete enough to form my basis. Even going off of their appearance & using general pop culture ideology, this kind of assumptual inferrence is likely correct.

 

But, my main point, which you agree on, is reason enough to debunk the "Sentients were the original MOAs" theory.  

Let's keep in mind that it was never specified that the beings we saw in the trailers were Sentient. They are coming with U17, but that doesn't mean the beings we saw were them. For all we know they could be another faction looking to bring back the Sentient. It's titled Tombs of the Sentient after all, which could mean we're going to see them making their return "from the Tombs".

[Morec0]

That was pretty badass. So, where's the discussion currently standing? What are we going over? Because it again seems like those things in the Sentient trailer might NOT be Sentients after all - which I and others postulated once upon realizing the symbol on their ship was actually very similar to the Orokin one.

 

Or, at least, those ships and bodies they're using aren't.

 

EDIT: Oh, and that the Orokin used cloning to breed - weirdos - and that corpus once had some interesting meanings regarding to family behind it, might definately points to space-mafia applications. Makes sense of those "The Corpus serves us. We serve the Corpus" banners too; "The Family serves us. We serve the Family."

 

As for this kid being anyone we know, I highly doubt it. I'd speculate maybe Frohd Bek, but I think it's jumping the shark to try and say he's actually anyone with a face currently in the Warframe universe.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Morec0

[EvexNight]

This entry is making me think about the entirity of the corpus.   Everything from proxie production lineage to the board itself.  I'm most likely have to devote an entire section of my notes just to the corpus due to this entry.   That however can wait until I've gotten some sleep.  

[Lost_Cartographer]

That was pretty badass. So, where's the discussion currently standing? What are we going over? Because it again seems like those things in the Sentient trailer might NOT be Sentients after all - which I and others postulated once upon realizing the symbol on their ship was actually very similar to the Orokin one.

 

Or, at least, those ships and bodies they're using aren't.

 

EDIT: Oh, and that the Orokin used cloning to breed - weirdos - and that corpus once had some interesting meanings regarding to family behind it, might definately points to space-mafia applications. Makes sense of those "The Corpus serves us. We serve the Corpus" banners too; "The Family serves us. We serve the Family."

 

As for this kid being anyone we know, I highly doubt it. I'd speculate maybe Frohd Bek, but I think it's jumping the shark to try and say he's actually anyone with a face currently in the Warframe universe.

Eh,.... we have no way of knowing how old a person from the Orokin era can be in the Warframe universe.  One would imagine medicinal and gene manipulation technologies would grant a person born in that age eternal youth, easy.  Hell, today there have been successful experiments in elongating a rats life by several years through gene manipulation.  

 

It very well could be a conversation between Darvo and Frohd Bek.  That's really the only father-son relationship we know exists in Warframe, making it a solid referencing point, and so I think dismissing this possibility because of the supposed time between the Orokin's fall and now is a bit presumptuous.

[Morec0]

Eh,.... we have no way of knowing how old a person from the Orokin era can be in the Warframe universe.  One would imagine medicinal and gene manipulation technologies would grant a person born in that age eternal youth, easy.  Hell, today there have been successful experiments in elongating a rats life by several years through gene manipulation.  

 

It very well could be a conversation between Darvo and Frohd Bek.  That's really the only father-son relationship we know exists in Warframe, making it a solid referencing point, and so I think dismissing this possibility because of the supposed time between the Orokin's fall and now is a bit presumptuous.

 

Which would explain Teshin's life...

 

I dunno, I'm totally onboard with the idea that Frohd was alive during the Orokin Era, but to jump and point and say "these guys are these guys from in-game!" feels like it may lead us to issues later on. It's an interesting point of note, and makes a little sense - Frohd's "stay away from the issues" mindstance and showing where Darvo's flat-out hate of the Grineer might stem from - but I think until later notice we shouldn't focus on this aspect of it.

 

 

Curiously, I'd say this also paints a different timeframe for the "Great Plague" - which beforenow we've assumed to have been BEFORE the Orokin Era, but seems to have come after it. Curious to know that the Grineer and proto-Corpus (which it's actually kinda funny to think that the Grineer as a force existed before the Corpus) seemingly were able to handle it on their own back then - or perhaps the Tenno came out of stasis once before?

[Kantazo]

So what is next, what new creature we most find?

[CBAROG]

Curious to know that the Grineer and proto-Corpus (which it's actually kinda funny to think that the Grineer as a force existed before the Corpus) seemingly were able to handle it on their own back then - or perhaps the Tenno came out of stasis once before?

Maybe Tenno were still awake and after destroying the Infestation (presumably) they went into cryo sleep.

[Morec0]

Maybe Tenno were still awake and after destroying the Infestation (presumably) they went into cryo sleep.

 

That's also possible, given the deaths of the Orokin could have let to their experiments getting loose. That would have been fallout from their destruction we would have had to clean up, and would have set the system back so far that even a few years watch would have led us and Lotus to conclude that things were balanced enough for us to sleep - allowing everything to go to S#&$.

So what is next, what new creature we most find?

 

We'll need to wait three days, but I'm thinking it'll be an Infested Ancient of some kind.

[Gelkor]

I think more likely the Grineer put the Plague down alone, it's probably part of the origin if their views of themselves as the heroes.

[Nikodemos]

We'll need to wait three days, but I'm thinking it'll be an Infested Ancient of some kind.

 

Actually four and a half days, the timer was at 4D 16H last I checked. 

 

I'm also wondering if the Great Plague was the technocyte virus causing the infestation, or something related to the viral and toxin procs many infested weapons inflict natively?

[Blakrana]

This is all very fascinating about robots and AI and Sentients and all that but:

 

What plague is he talking about that also wiped out citizens of the Orokin Empire after the fall?  Given that the Infestation only recently resurfaced, I'm willing to bet that's not what he's talking about.  

 

Orokin Emperors are assassinated by the Tenno, the Grineer soldiers who were made by the Orokin expand to fill the power vacuum and turn into $&*^s, and a plague hits the Solar System too?  What the S#&$, humanity can't catch a break.

 

As others have said, it seems that whatever the Plague was, it's the 'Great Plague' the Mire makes reference too. Now...if what the 'Father' alludes to as Orokin not having parents in the same 'way' as his son is implying a kind of clone/designer baby deal, then the loss of the Orokin stability could have led to pathogen problems as they would now have to grow and adapt conventionally to disease.

 

Not the best explanation I have but think of it like how a crop is devastated by one bad disease, because the species is so identical. It's a possibility other than the Technocyte, but odds are it's the Technocyte before it died down. The Infestation appears to have been sealed away when Once Awake demonstrates it to be disturbed, so to speak.

 

Which, arguably, is pretty much what was going on with Mezner in darkSector: the Infested were hidden and sleeping around the world, he was going to wake them up.

 

Also...Does anyone else get a sort of 'Plato's Republic' feel from the way they discuss Orokin society, particularly the corpus deal? I might be off (not actually read it admittedly) but it does seem similar to what I do know of Plato's structured society.

 

Any rate, interesting stuff. Good hunting everyone.

[Morec0]

Also...Does anyone else get a sort of 'Plato's Republic' feel from the way they discuss Orokin society, particularly the corpus deal? I might be off (not actually read it admittedly) but it does seem similar to what I do know of Plato's structured society.

 

If there are assumed to only be three tiers to Orokin Era society I'm seeing the Grineer as the limbs and legs - the lower class of manual workers - the Corpus as the body - makes sense, the general people working on more refined tasks - and the Orokin as the head - the ruler administration. I'd see if this lined up to anything in Plato's republic, but the wikipedia entry's huge and I don't feel like reading it atm.

[Rayzenfloss]

it will be a hard & very long work for all of us, but we can receive a detailed LORE on everything in the end. its worth it.

but what if we need to Scan the Stalker. how will DE manage to make this one, or should I say how can we possibly do this.

personally, I want a very detailed lore of the stalker, since his the only enemy that is directly related to the orokin and what really happen back there after the old war, codex isn't enough.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Rayzenfloss

[Blakrana]

If there are assumed to only be three tiers to Orokin Era society I'm seeing the Grineer as the limbs and legs - the lower class of manual workers - the Corpus as the body - makes sense, the general people working on more refined tasks - and the Orokin as the head - the ruler administration. I'd see if this lined up to anything in Plato's republic, but the wikipedia entry's huge and I don't feel like reading it atm.

 

Well, I do know for a fact one of the strata for the Republic was the Guardian caste...and we have the Stalker mentioning his position as a Guardian.

Furthermore, he's a low Guardian. Low by caste, not by role, perhaps.

 

Again, I'm working on excerpts, so apologies if this doesn't line up any. Just first thing that struck me about it all.

[Morec0]

Well, I do know for a fact one of the strata for the Republic was the Guardian caste...and we have the Stalker mentioning his position as a Guardian.

Furthermore, he's a low Guardian. Low by caste, not by role, perhaps.

 

Again, I'm working on excerpts, so apologies if this doesn't line up any. Just first thing that struck me about it all.

 

I'm continuing to contest that the capitalization of low in the context used suggests not Low Guardian as a thing but "we guardians were lower than you Tenno" - meaning "lesser than" in the context. Still, Guardians as a Caste as well does sort of throw the nice lining up body of mine out the window.. unless one wants to say the legs carry the body as a worker supplies the empire and the arms allow them to defend themselves, but that's a bit weaker.

 

Theories come and theories go.

 

And excerpts are better than nothing.

[ShenanAgram]

"I hoped to trade it for some rare parts when we hit the colony, enough to build a bigger second walker.  Maybe even one that could carry a full size canon."

 

Corpus confirmed lore hunters, probably working with Simaris. I believe the Corpus theme plays in the Sanctuary, even.

[Kaotyke]

That was pretty badass. So, where's the discussion currently standing? What are we going over? Because it again seems like those things in the Sentient trailer might NOT be Sentients after all - which I and others postulated once upon realizing the symbol on their ship was actually very similar to the Orokin one.

 

Or, at least, those ships and bodies they're using aren't.

 

EDIT: Oh, and that the Orokin used cloning to breed - weirdos - and that corpus once had some interesting meanings regarding to family behind it, might definately points to space-mafia applications. Makes sense of those "The Corpus serves us. We serve the Corpus" banners too; "The Family serves us. We serve the Family."

 

As for this kid being anyone we know, I highly doubt it. I'd speculate maybe Frohd Bek, but I think it's jumping the shark to try and say he's actually anyone with a face currently in the Warframe universe.

There's being some speculation a few pages back that the MOAs were the Sentients... and some people seem to be convinced its that, I think that pure malarkey.

 

And if we assume the kid was Darvo... it would mean that the timeline is less than 100 years since the Great Collapse, is 100 years enough for the Grineer to put themselfs as the big opressive empire from the whole System we know now? Is 100 years enough for the Corpus to raise to be the biggest coorporation that can rival the Grineer, who used to just raid and kill them?

 

To me the answer is: NO!

 

A lot of things can happen in 100 years but in a level that can raise so fast like that, with the size of the Solar Syatem? And it looked like the Proto-Corpus were not able to freely use the Solar Rails.

 

Also: The degradation of the Grineer, is 100 years enough to make them degradate to the point of needing mostly cybernetics and look like decrepit old people as soon as they come out? Again my answer is "no".

 

Lotus tells us we have slept for "generations", in our terms 1 generation is 25 years, but we are people who live 80-100 years, what is a generation for those that can live hundreds?

[Kantazo]

I would love to get some infested, yummy!!!!

[Gelkor]

"I hoped to trade it for some rare parts when we hit the colony, enough to build a bigger second walker. Maybe even one that could carry a full size canon."

Corpus confirmed lore hunters, probably working with Simaris. I believe the Corpus theme plays in the Sanctuary, even.

Yeah, this thing is littered with errors that I had to doublecheck were actually there when I was transcribing it. "How long are you going tinker with that thing?"

[Morec0]

it will be a hard & very long work for all of us, but we can receive a detailed LORE on everything in the end. its worth it.

but what if we need to Scan the Stalker. how will DE manage to make this one, or should I say how can we possibly do this.

personally, I want a very detailed lore of the stalker, since his the only enemy that is directly related to the orokin and what really happen back there after the old war, codex isn't enough.

 

We already sort of have Synthesis for him with the Codex entry, though that does raise into question the future of Codexes for boss characters. Regardless, I'd rather see a Stalker quest - not like an introductory quest, because that robs his "wait, what is this message? what's coming after me???" for new players, but like a quest BP added to his drop table. A "Stalking the Stalker", if you will.

 

 

There's being some speculation a few pages back that the MOAs were the Sentients... and some people seem to be convinced its that, I think that pure malarkey.

 

And if we assume the kid was Darvo... it would mean that the timeline is less than 100 years since the Great Collapse, is 100 years enough for the Grineer to put themselfs as the big opressive empire from the whole System we know now? Is 100 years enough for the Corpus to raise to be the biggest coorporation that can rival the Grineer, who used to just raid and kill them?

 

To me the answer is: NO!

 

A lot of things can happen in 100 years but in a level that can raise so fast like that, with the size of the Solar Syatem? And it looked like the Proto-Corpus were not able to freely use the Solar Rails.

 

Also: The degradation of the Grineer, is 100 years enough to make them degradate to the point of needing mostly cybernetics and look like decrepit old people as soon as they come out? Again my answer is "no".

 

Lotus tells us we have slept for "generations", in our terms 1 generation is 25 years, but we are people who live 80-100 years, what is a generation for those that can live hundreds?

 

Aye, the idea that the "Moas" of the Orokin Empire were like what the kid was working on also seems to be cast out when the father said "we had ones that walks on two legs, but ours were.... different".

 

Heck, it almost crossed my mind that maybe he was referring to the Tenno, but that's insane and no one likes what that would imply.

 

I think that the "Sentients returning" may be something we're all being misguided about - though what Teshin means by "horrors from beyond the Outer Terminus" then is thrown into question, so really it's unlikely. If what we saw in the trailer IS connected to what the Orokin have, I'd say those are Sentient minds controlling Orokin robotics and ships.

 

Yeah, this thing is littered with errors that I had to doublecheck were actually there when I was transcribing it. "How long are you going tinker with that thing?"

 

Hrm.... maybe they ARE just writing it up a they go along... Or maybe the coders need a few grammar lessons.

[Blakrana]

I'm continuing to contest that the capitalization of low in the context used suggests not Low Guardian as a thing but "we guardians were lower than you Tenno" - meaning "lesser than" in the context. Still, Guardians as a Caste as well does sort of throw the nice lining up body of mine out the window.. unless one wants to say the legs carry the body as a worker supplies the empire and the arms allow them to defend themselves, but that's a bit weaker.

 

Theories come and theories go.

 

And excerpts are better than nothing.

 

Indeed. Still, there's at least evidence of a caste system. What these castes are, what they differ in or around, we're not too clear on.

 

Although, as an aside, are you familiar with the political philosophy of Thomas Hobbes? Your analogy reminds me of his 'Leviathan' one, where the individuals of a nation come together to make the greater whole.

 

Apologies, this is perhaps diverging too far from the source to be helpful. I'll shut up.

Hrm.... maybe they ARE just writing it up a they go along... Or maybe the coders need a few grammar lessons.

 

I think it's more likely, like any writer, when you write up a lot of stuff you miss a few obvious typos when you read over. Brain puts in the words whe you get the flow going.

 

I know I've been there before now. Heck, half my long posts I sometimes wince at the 'how did I miss that' errors I make here or there.

[Deidaku]

let me get this straigh

 

So corpus in a way means Clan? 

[Kaotyke]

let me get this straigh

 

So corpus in a way means Clan?

Seems that way: Corpus = Clan/Guild/Family

 

Actually I think its more in terms of "Family", since Corpus can mean "major part of an organ" we can also call our family a "Corpus" since we all share DNA.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Kao-Snake