Synthesis Imprint Findings: Anti-Moa

[Gelkor]

I think it's an indication that whoever is writing the lore is keeping it so close to the chest (to avoid early leaks?) that they don't have someone proofread.

Maybe they are really committed to the lore only being doled out after players complete the scans and won't risk any leaks?

Edited April 17, 2015 by Gelkor

[Lost_Cartographer]

I'm not convinced the Tenno would have been oblivious enough to wipe out the Orokin but not do anything about maintaining containment of the infestation.  Something else may have happened that caused the great plague, and the Tenno were likely around during that event.  The only evidence we have though are a select few weapons.

[immolator1001]

I think more likely the Grineer put the Plague down alone, it's probably part of the origin if their views of themselves as the heroes.

Sorry where did it say that?

[Gelkor]

Sorry where did it say that?

 

That they think they are heroes or that they put the plague down?  I'm inferring that they handled the plague/infestation simply because that's also what they do right now, when you listen to Grineer radio that's a lot of what they talk about.

 

Grineer in general, and Sargus Ruk especially, tend to talk about how Grineer are the true Guardians of the Solar System. Now that we know that the first Grineer were lower caste miners who were elevated to soldiers, I'd surmise that Orokin imprinting and creation of the Grineer army may have instilled them with a belief in their manifest destiny as "protectors of the solar system."

 

This is probably why they rose to power so quickly after The Fall.  While the free-thinking citizens of the Empire fell into dissaray and hopelessness, the (likely) brainwashed fanatic clone army simply continued to do what they were made to do: guard the solar rails, protect the solar system.  How they do that without Orokin guidance is probably where they started seeing everyone as enemies.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Gelkor

[Morec0]

Indeed. Still, there's at least evidence of a caste system. What these castes are, what they differ in or around, we're not too clear on.

 

Although, as an aside, are you familiar with the political philosophy of Thomas Hobbes? Your analogy reminds me of his 'Leviathan' one, where the individuals of a nation come together to make the greater whole.

 

Apologies, this is perhaps diverging too far from the source to be helpful. I'll shut up.

 

I think it's more likely, like any writer, when you write up a lot of stuff you miss a few obvious typos when you read over. Brain puts in the words whe you get the flow going.

 

I know I've been there before now. Heck, half my long posts I sometimes wince at the 'how did I miss that' errors I make here or there.

 

I feel like I should, but I can't say I am. The idea that the individual influences the group rather than the other way around is a philosophy I can fully get behind, however.

 

 

Sorry where did it say that?

 

I believe that he's pulling from Ruk's "Grineer protect all!" speeches, but regardless; modern villains rarely see themselves AS the villain.

 

 

I think it's an indication that whoever is writing the lore is keeping it so close to the chest (to avoid early leaks?) that they don't have someone proofread.

Maybe they are really committed to the lore only being doled out after players complete the scans and won't risk any leaks?

 

That's also a possibility. and given the way Steve sort of acts on the devstreams it makes sense. Of course, that may just be so that players do nom onto every little mistake he makes and then get on his case about "rewriting the lore!" later on when it's not 100% what he said initially.

 

 

And that's also a probable case for the typos.

[SilentMobius]

 

I think that the "Sentients returning" may be something we're all being misguided about - though what Teshin means by "horrors from beyond the Outer Terminus" then is thrown into question, so really it's unlikely. If what we saw in the trailer IS connected to what the Orokin have, I'd say those are Sentient minds controlling Orokin robotics and ships.

 

 

Hrm.... maybe they ARE just writing it up a they go along... Or maybe the coders need a few grammar lessons.

 

I think the lore czar is Steve, from the knowing glances from Scott in the last devstream. I can easily see Steve making spelling and grammar mistakes and checking them straight in.

[mrhat.lf]

It seems to me that who ever the speaker is is building the first Anti MOA, not the standard one we see everyday. So, it could be that the Anti MOA was the basis for all the other MOAs, but the Anti MOA itself wasn't put into mass production since the Corpus didn't own Jupiter at the time.

[RoboticApplesWithLasers]

"It's the Grineer"

[OniDax]

Corpus is not used to refer to the empire as one body. So no, the grineer weren't limbs, neither were the Corpus. The Corpus come from one Orokin corpus. Particularly, the father comes from one corpus. There is a new corpus right asfterthe fall of the Orokin, formed by survivors.Yes, there are classes, most likely, but each is more like a guild. These guilds are corpora. Each one is a separate corpus. The corpus collectively raises a child. As well, the father's words indicate that the people are also considered Orokin. I've already explained why that is.

[SilentMobius]

Corpus is not used to refer to the empire as one body. So no, the grineer weren't limbs, neither were the Corpus. The Corpus come from one Orokin corpus. Particularly, the father comes from one corpus. There is a new corpus right asfterthe fall of the Orokin, formed by survivors.Yes, there are classes, most likely, but each is more like a guild. These guilds are corpora. Each one is a separate corpus. The corpus collectively raises a child. As well, the father's words indicate that the people are also considered Orokin. I've already explained why that is.

 

Yes, but it is not definitive and it's easy to disagree with.

[Kayblis]

2 scans resulting in exactly 16 days?

Makes it really hard to believe this isn't rigged...

[OniDax]

Yes, but it is not definitive and it's easy to disagree with.

Given that the father says "The corpus that raised me", I would say that this implies that there were other corpora that didn't raise him. Not only that, but we already know that The Corpus are merchant guild.

[Gelkor]

2 scans resulting in exactly 16 days?

Makes it really hard to believe this isn't rigged...

 

Isn't it a 5 day wait in between so it took 11 days to get both scans?  One 6 days and one 5 days? Totally rigged.

[MartianJellyfish]

So I just woke up and had a rather strong coffee dose. I got my tinfoil hat and cape on.

 

Umpal is my best and only friend, there weren’t many young people in our group and Umpal is the only one close to my age. Truth be told, he was the only person my age I’d ever met.

 

The fact the narrator doesn't know many young people more than likely means they're one of the first born after the fall of the Orokin, but the capitalised use of "Father" kind of bothers me and makes me question if the person Narrator is referring to is their actual biological parent or more akin to a tutor (I don't have a proper translation for the idea I'm trying to convey but that will have to do). The more I think of it, the more it draws me back to those old datamined lore entries that spoke of how the Corpus in the current timeline of the game remove children from their parents to work as merchants (I'm not sure I'm allowed to post these quotes on the forums since it's datamine and there's no guarantee it's still canon, but the file can still be found on Reddit). Of course I might be reading too much into it, but this is a thought I wanted to share.

 

“Orokin didn’t have parents like you do, it was done differently then.”

 

Done differently. If I'm understanding this correctly, the Orokin were clones of each other, just like the Grineer they produced. "Merely framed, merely shaped they are called. There was no their mother, there was no their father". Could be that the Sentient was referring to the Orokin as a whole, not just the Grineer worker. With the fall of the Orokin, the Grineer continued reproducing by cloning, while the "corpus" survivors went the opposite direction. Like the Father says, the others were dead because "they couldn't forget the past". Which again brings me to the datamined lore that tells of how the Grineer buy cloning technology from the Corpus, but later on start experimenting by themselves. This could be the reason the Grineer were raiding the corpus' ships on the Anti-MOA lore entry, to steal their tech and salvage.

 

I have to go now but I'll come back later and elaborate further. Eh.

Edited April 17, 2015 by MartianJellyfish

[Lost_Cartographer]

Isn't it a 5 day wait in between so it took 11 days to get both scans?  One 6 days and one 5 days? Totally rigged.

Not so sure.  Synthesis is still pretty new in Warframe.  The first synthesis had a 3 day wait period.  This one ended up with 4.5 days.  If everyone were slamming it consistently like they do at the start for their first and only 10, we'd probably be looking at a 10 day wait period.  If everyone goes slow on synthesis target #24 because at that point it's "just another thing to do" we'd probably skip the post-synthesis timer altogether.

 

2 synthesis' is hardly enough to form any conclusions.  Stop fishing for excuses to not even bother.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Littleman88

[Doom_Bunny]

(which it's actually kinda funny to think that the Grineer as a force existed before the Corpus)

I wouldn't say a force so much as bandits/space pirates. Think of it this way, from the previous entry we see that the grineer were labourers, not very intelligent, and only the strong grineer were cloned. If we were to take the leader away (the orokin) suddenly you have these clones with no directive, and little to zero intelligence. With out their leader to guide and protect survival instincts kick in, and for humans (and some other animals) that means forming a pack/hierachy with the strongest (not necessarily physically) as the leader. It would start with where they were working and progress to finding other grineer in space, eventually uniting under the queens.

 

You see this society in the very first trailer were Vor just out right kills another grineer and no one bats an eye. This is because Vor is the stronger (or at least more obessive, intelligent) of the two. Therefore commands more respect in this society.

 

I'd say in this entry the grineer and corpus are both at the stage were there are many groups of them doing the same thing. Yet there is no definitve faction, just groups of people in two seperate races.

[Gelkor]

Not so sure.  Synthesis is still pretty new in Warframe.  The first synthesis had a 3 day wait period.  This one ended up with 4.

  If everyone were slamming it consistently like they do at the start for their first and only 10, we'd probably be looking at a 10 day wait period.  If everyone goes slow on synthesis target #24 because it's "just another one of those features" we'd probably skip the post-synthesis timer altogether.

 

2 synthesis' is hardly enough to form any conclusions.  Stop fishing for excuses to not even bother.

 

I was being sarcastic, pointing out that the time taken to synthesize these two targets was different, so even though it added up to 16 days like Kayblis said, it's clearly not set up. I  don't think it's rigged, in fact I've had some choice words about the tinfoil hatters in the other thread.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Gelkor

[Doom_Bunny]

“Orokin didn’t have parents like you do, it was done differently then.” He takes a deep breath and turns to look at me. “Listen, the corpus who raised me are dead, do you know why they are dead?”

I still don't think the corpus were cloned, sounds more like insemination. Normaly cloning degrades the body no matter how good the orokin did it. So if the orokin wanted an intelligent and controlled race, this way seems likely.

 

So if we take a gander at this path we would see the mother and father never meet, rather they are paired by the orokin and samples taken. From when the baby is born it is reared by a select group of corpus. (It's not family. Just like the grineer entry these people aren't refered to as humans but rather what they are, grineer/corpus.) This select group raises the child to excell in specific areas for the orokins needs.

Controlled from birth to death, it's almost poetic.

 

 

“Because they couldn’t forget the past.  I survived by worrying about two things, today and tomorrow.  That is the only reason I’m alive.  That is the only reason you exist. You want to remember something, remember that.”

After the orokin collapse the corpus appear to of tried to keep they ways of the orokin but ultimately failed. This person says he managed to survive with this child because he worried about the future. This could mean that the child in this story is a regular born child, not manipulated by orokin or crazed corpus*. Completely changing the course of the corpus or at least making another splinter faction.  However looking at this Umpal person, a few traditions appear to have survived arfter the plague. The teller's suspicion of "security" and the way the father snaps at the mention of going to the ship Umpal is on. So what we can tell by this is that the corpus that Umpal is with propably hold to some old traditions and see the two people in this story as just business associates (the parent figure's navigation skills would come in handy). Which would explain the child's  suspicion of "security" and the parent figure's anger (or it's just a kid that talks too much).

 

*Another meaning could be that this parent figure was one of the corpus raising the child. Which would mean this person ran away with the child to prevent getting caught in the destruction that he/she saw coming.

Edited April 17, 2015 by Postal_pat

[Morec0]

What sort of strikes me as the most interesting is that it turns on its head what I thought to be the balance of power in the system before. I thought the Corpus had come first and the Grineer had risen to rule the system by crushing them after their military forming at a later point, but it seems to be that the Grineer were the initial masters of the system while the Corpus gained territory and influence by some kind of leasing contract and shady business deals with the Grineer.

 

 

I wouldn't say a force so much as bandits/space pirates. Think of it this way, from the previous entry we see that the grineer were labourers, not very intelligent, and only the strong grineer were cloned. If we were to take the leader away (the orokin) suddenly you have these clones with no directive, and little to zero intelligence. With out their leader to guide and protect survival instincts kick in, and for humans (and some other animals) that means forming a pack/hierachy with the strongest (not necessarily physically) as the leader. It would start with where they were working and progress to finding other grineer in space, eventually uniting under the queens.

 

You see this society in the very first trailer were Vor just out right kills another grineer and no one bats an eye. This is because Vor is the stronger (or at least more obessive, intelligent) of the two. Therefore commands more respect in this society.

 

I'd say in this entry the grineer and corpus are both at the stage were there are many groups of them doing the same thing. Yet there is no definitve faction, just groups of people in two seperate races.

 

I get more the impression that the Grineer is occupying military control of the system, hence why they have to sneak onto the rail. They own the rails at this point - maybe they still do in Warframe, all the talk over the radio from people in charge of rail traffic seems to be Grineer - and so the Corpus are having to sneak into it and ride the rail "punch" under the cover of the legitimate ships.

 

Whether the Queens are around to unite them at this point, I get the impression that they still had more control here than the non-existent Corpus Corporation.

[Gelkor]

What sort of strikes me as the most interesting is that it turns on its head what I thought to be the balance of power in the system before. I thought the Corpus had come first and the Grineer had risen to rule the system by crushing them after their military forming at a later point, but it seems to be that the Grineer were the initial masters of the system while the Corpus gained territory and influence by some kind of leasing contract and shady business deals with the Grineer.

 

 

 

I get more the impression that the Grineer is occupying military control of the system, hence why they have to sneak onto the rail. They own the rails at this point - maybe they still do in Warframe, all the talk over the radio from people in charge of rail traffic seems to be Grineer - and so the Corpus are having to sneak into it and ride the rail "punch" under the cover of the legitimate ships.

 

Whether the Queens are around to unite them at this point, I get the impression that they still had more control here than the non-existent Corpus Corporation.

 

That's my take on it.  The Grineer were made by the Orokin to safeguard the rails, against the Sentients, against the technocyte.  When the empire fell, they continued to do their job.  Especially if another plague broke out, which means for containment purposes they would also target pretty much any civilians.

 

Without Orokin leadership, however, or maybe with, the Grineer soon saw all outsiders as enemies. Or perhaps the Grineer do still have Orokin leadership, maybe two more Guardians from the Orokin era snapped up command of the Grineer in the resulting power vacuum and sought to carve out their own Empire from the ashes. 

Edited April 17, 2015 by Gelkor

[OniDax]

I don't think Orokin were cloned. Either they did have biological parents who naturally conceived them and they were then raised by their corpus, or they were born in tubes (kinda like the Kryptonians in Man of Steel) and the babies were then placed into different corpora (think, guilds/classes).

 

I still think there were more than just Guardians, so even if the Grineer were initially led by an Orokin, it wouldn't necessarily just have to be a Guardian. Not every Orokin character needs to be a Guardian.

Edited April 17, 2015 by AntoineFlemming

[MartianJellyfish]

-snip-

 

Continuing from my previous post. If after the fall of the Orokin the Grineer preserved their original ways while the forming Corpus moved away from it, it brings a whole new meaning to the reason the Corpus call the Grineer "dogs". Maybe they are not just their Queens' dogs, but more like they are still the Orokin's dogs. Which makes me wonder again if the original Grineer Queens were Orokin sensu stricto.

 

All of this also explains why the Grineer became the strong military force they are currently, and the Corpus have never been able to one-up them in that aspect. The Grineer started as simple workers then turned into soldiers, while the Corpus have always been merchants and scientists. The Grineer started taking control of the Origin system as their distorted understanding of the Orokin's legacy, while the "corpus" by then were survivor and scavenger groups - that later unified into their own faction to put the Grineer's spread to a halt. The Narrator's MOA prototype was adopted as their main security unit, later upgraded and widespread through the new faction. The Corpus' scavenged resources and technology allows them to grow in influence, to the point the Grineer (still primarily soldiers) become dependant on them, which leads to their abrasive interactions as we see them.

 

This... This is beautiful.

[OniDax]

Continuing from my previous post. If after the fall of the Orokin the Grineer preserved their original ways while the forming Corpus moved away from it, it brings a whole new meaning to the reason the Corpus call the Grineer "dogs". Maybe they are not just their Queens' dogs, but more like they are still the Orokin's dogs. Which makes me wonder again if the original Grineer Queens were Orokin sensu stricto.

 

All of this also explains why the Grineer became the strong military force they are currently, and the Corpus have never been able to one-up them in that aspect. The Grineer started as simple workers then turned into soldiers, while the Corpus have always been merchants and scientists. The Grineer started taking control of the Origin system as their distorted understanding of the Orokin's legacy, while the "corpus" by then were survivor and scavenger groups - that later unified into their own faction to put the Grineer's spread to a halt. The Narrator's MOA prototype was adopted as their main security unit, later upgraded and widespread through the new faction. The Corpus' scavenged resources and technology allows them to grow in influence, to the point the Grineer (still primarily soldiers) become dependant on them, which leads to their abrasive interactions as we see them.

 

This... This is beautiful.

 

I think the Corpus maintained the old ways, given their eventual name. I'm guessing that the speaker is the one who starts the Corpus, given his fascination with the empire and Orokin culture and his father's rejection of it.

[Morec0]

I don't think Orokin were cloned. Either they did have biological parents who naturally conceived them and they were then raised by their corpus, or they were born in tubes (kinda like the Kryptonians in Man of Steel) and the babies were then placed into different corpora (think, guilds/classes).

 

I still think there were more than just Guardians, so even if the Grineer were initially led by an Orokin, it wouldn't necessarily just have to be a Guardian. Not every Orokin character needs to be a Guardian.

 

A huge MO of the Orokin DOES seem to be cloning, however, and as MartianJellyfish points out it could mean the Sentients was referring to the Orokin as a whole, who definitely were human based on the father's identification as one - third-person though it was. 

 

That said, I totally agree that there were more than Guardians in the Orokin. After all, this once-Orokin survived, and if he survived that means one of two things:

 

The Tenno were sloppy - possible.

 

He wasn't worth the killing - more likely.

 

So we have an upper class - Orokin - and within that class you've got your Guardians, your Emperors, probably your Scientists, and possibly more. It's fascinating.

 

 

Continuing from my previous post. If after the fall of the Orokin the Grineer preserved their original ways while the forming Corpus moved away from it, it brings a whole new meaning to the reason the Corpus call the Grineer "dogs". Maybe they are not just their Queens' dogs, but more like they are still the Orokin's dogs. Which makes me wonder again if the original Grineer Queens were Orokin sensu stricto.

 

All of this also explains why the Grineer became the strong military force they are currently, and the Corpus have never been able to one-up them in that aspect. The Grineer started as simple workers then turned into soldiers, while the Corpus have always been merchants and scientists. The Grineer started taking control of the Origin system as their distorted understanding of the Orokin's legacy, while the "corpus" by then were survivor and scavenger groups - that later unified into their own faction to put the Grineer's spread to a halt. The Narrator's MOA prototype was adopted as their main security unit, later upgraded and widespread through the new faction. The Corpus' scavenged resources and technology allows them to grow in influence, to the point the Grineer (still primarily soldiers) become dependant on them, which leads to their abrasive interactions as we see them.

 

This... This is beautiful.

 

Oh yeah, it lines up WONDERFULLY and it gives a solid framework of how these groups rose to power.

 

I think the Corpus maintained the old ways, given their eventual name. I'm guessing that the speaker is the one who starts the Corpus, given his fascination with the empire and Orokin culture and his father's rejection of it.

 

That would make sense, especially given the supposition religiousness the Corpus face the Orokin with.

[MartianJellyfish]

I think the Corpus maintained the old ways, given their eventual name. I'm guessing that the speaker is the one who starts the Corpus, given his fascination with the empire and Orokin culture and his father's rejection of it.

 

If you mean what I said on my first line, I was referring to cloning actually (hence me quoting my own post lol).

But other than that, you're right.

Edited April 17, 2015 by MartianJellyfish