Opinions On The New Weapons Of 16.4?

[Kontrollo]

PvP Weapon Comparison (Note: the comparison does not yet include Impact/Puncture/Slash-values)

 

Primaries:

• Karak
  
• Sybaris
  
• Tigris (VKhaun's discussion)
  
• Tonkor (dmcAxle's feedback, Sorez' discussion)
  
• Braton Vandal

Secondaries:

• Angstrum
  
• Kraken
  
• Viper
  
• Twin Vipers
  
• Wraith Twin Vipers

I've tried the Karak and the Wraith Twin Vipers in some games now. Both have good handling but suffer from a low magazine size and high ammo consumption. I'd imagine the Viper/Twin Vipers are even worse off in that regard. The DPS isn't bad, but not too great either.

 

All in all there are much better options I think, and they should probably receive a slight damage buff (Karak: 22, WTV: 10, maybe more because they're impact-heavy) for their drawbacks. And Viper/Twin Vipers need a bigger magazine on top.

 

 

 

P.S. Please mention in your posts if/how much you've tested the weapons, as well.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Kontrollo

[VKhaun]

Related:

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/446293-tigris-feedback/

[DiosGX]

P.S. Please mention in your posts if/how much you've tested the weapons, as well.

I actually would prefer this sort of forthrightness.

 

If they were like "yo we added these, but we only used them all in one big game and they didn't one-shot things so TRY IT OUT," then people would be more forgiving at first toward their stats.

[Nighttide77]

Tigris: great close-quarters double-barreled action, even in PvP.  Feels very balanced.

 

Angstrum: also feels very balanced.  Long wind-up time for a beautiful explosive launcher.  Potential for one-shotting, but only after risking getting close enough and having to dodge enemy attacks for a good couple seconds.  Makes me think of the Rocket Launcher from Unreal Tournament, but smaller AOE size.

[Thalahssalyst]

no one talks about boar prime? boar prime needs a buff.

[Kontrollo]

no one talks about boar prime? boar prime needs a buff.

 

Boar Prime has received a buff. Damage per pellet was bumped from 5 to 8. It's pretty good now, try it.

[Otenko]

Admittedly, I haven't tested the weapons. But the particular thing that strikes me is how the Sybaris is nearly better in every way compared to the Kraken. I'm an avid Kraken user, so I guess the impetus for this post is based on bias but I'm trying to analyze the facts objectively.

 

So Sybaris Stats:

Name   DamageDPS² DPMag³ Acc   RoF Mag Reload Trigger Falloff Mastery

Sybaris 54×2     356.4   540      28.6   3.3  10     2.0        Burst No         5

 

Kraken Stats:

Name   DamageDPS   DPMag  Acc   RoF Mag Reload Trigger Falloff Mastery

Kraken  42×2     235.2     588    16.0   2.8  14     2.5     Burst   No      0

 

So really. The Kraken has 2 extra bursts (4 bullets) over the Syabris. However, the Sybaris has: better damage (10 more per bullet is pretty good actually), better rate of fire, better reload, less recoil (almost no recoil).

 

Mods lessen the disparity between the weapons. But the Sybaris still ends up being a better/easier to use weapon.

 

Magazine Warp / Slip magazine gives Sybaris 13 bullets per mag and Kraken 18 bullets per mag (tested in-game).

Fast Hands / Quick Draw gives Sybaris a 1.5 reload time and Kraken a 1.7 reload time. However, Sybaris also can use Primed Fast Hands which can lessen the reload time even more, making it even better.

 

They can both equip recoil reducing mods, but the Kraken's base recoil is still much more noticeable than Sybaris's in the first place. This results in Sybaris having basically no recoil with the mod while the Kraken still having to adjust (though to a much smaller degree).

 

They buffed Sybaris's damage in one of the hotfixes. But now this makes the Kraken a worse weapon by comparison. Hopefully they can buff the Kraken in a way that makes it more worth using. It needs to have better stats in order to incentivize using a burst-fire weapon with high recoil and slower reload/rate of fire.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Otenko

[AlphaSierraMike]

Loving the Sybaris, it's so close to a sniper rifle. Headshot makes the sybaris a two burst kill, but most often 3 burst kill. That's alright, considering that it has a 10 mag capacity, unlike pre buff Sicarus that takes an entire mag just to down a player. I can't wait for the Grinlok or Vectis in PvP.

 

Tigris is also a fun weapon, the damage dropoff could be a bit lesser though, but that might be just me pushing my luck with close/mid range shots. I should buy a Burdened Mag just for the Tigris.

[Thalahssalyst]

Boar Prime has received a buff. Damage per pellet was bumped from 5 to 8. It's pretty good now, try it.

already try it, and it sucks.

[elspinaczio]

I played with Sybaris - is a mistake to put this weapon in pvp. Kills instantly when score  headshot. I thought they removed headshot multipliers with update 16.4. but it's still there.

[Pythadragon]

PvP Weapon Comparison (Note: the comparison does not yet include Impact/Puncture/Slash-values)

 

-snip-

 

 

P.S. Please mention in your posts if/how much you've tested the weapons, as well.

 

DPS for burst fire weapons is completely wrong in that chart. It is simply assuming actual ROF = burst size * listed ROF. This is not correct.

 

For example, Sicarus Prime DPS on the chart is greatly inflated. It most definitely does not do 3 * 5 = 15 shots per second even with fire weapon bound to a free spinning mouse wheel.

 

Related, Sybaris definitely doesn't shoot at a real fire rate equivalent of 2*3.3 = 6.6 rounds per second, which is what the chart is assuming.

 

Same with Kraken.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Otenko]

DPS for burst fire weapons is completely wrong in that chart. It is simply assuming actual ROF = burst size * listed ROF. This is not correct.

 

For example, Sicarus Prime DPS on the chart is greatly inflated. It most definitely does not do 3 * 5 = 15 shots per second even with fire weapon bound to a free spinning mouse wheel.

It does say "fire-rate" instead of "burst-rate." I think they mean 5 rounds per second (1 and 2/3 bursts) instead of 5 bursts per second.

[Pythadragon]

It does say "fire-rate" instead of "burst-rate." I think they mean 5 rounds per second (1 and 2/3 bursts) instead of 5 bursts per second.

 

Right, but look at the DPS calculation for Sicarus Prime. The chart says 255.

 

They achieve that number by 17*3*5 = 255

17 is damage per bullet

3 is burst size

5 is rounds per second.

 

Working backwards from their resulting dps, the chart is assuming 'fire-rate' is actually 'bursts per second' for burst weapons, which is not true and is incorrectly inflating DPS for burstfire weapons.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Otenko]

-wiki's lies-

Ah, I actually ignored those parts of the chart. I prefer to look at the "arsenal-given" stats. 

 

Good (or bad, rather) to know that the numbers are artificially and likely unintentionally inflated.

[ZinGrin]

Explosive weapons were a mistake to add.

[.Talia.]

DPS for burst fire weapons is completely wrong in that chart. It is simply assuming actual ROF = burst size * listed ROF. This is not correct.

 

For example, Sicarus Prime DPS on the chart is greatly inflated. It most definitely does not do 3 * 5 = 15 shots per second even with fire weapon bound to a free spinning mouse wheel.

 

Related, Sybaris definitely doesn't shoot at a real fire rate equivalent of 2*3.3 = 6.6 rounds per second, which is what the chart is assuming.

 

Same with Kraken.

Also the melee DPS chart is wrong, its assuming that attack speed equals how many attacks per second which is not the case.

[oinkah]

Getting random kills with indirect Tonkor grenades is hilarious, but it's probably very annoying to die to.

But at least it promotes completely diferent style of play. It requires knowledge of map's chokepoints and bouncing prediction to deliver grenades to optimal location. Kills are still very random, but it's a great tool for zoning areas.

Edited April 26, 2015 by oinkah

[Feyangol]

Sybaris

I gained ~15k rep with it during the last 2 days.

The only problem, which I have with this weapon, is that it doesn't kill an Excal with 2 bursts (aka 4 bullets). Add +3/4 dmg and it will be exactly how I imagined it to be.

 

Karak

Is outclassed by the braton series. It has the same niche, but lower dmg and a lot lower mag for slightly more attackspeed - I didn't test it and I won't, because I see no reason why I should play with it.

 

Tonkor

I started building it this morning and we'll see tomorrow how good it is. The superjump seems a little bit annoying from what I've seen yesterday and the dmg isn't too high - the grenade as a bullet deals probably more dmg than the explosion lol.

 

Tigris

I get this weapon in a few hours and than I'll look - the stats seem interesting. High dmg, extremly low mag and medicore reload. It could be a little bit awkward to use it, thanks to the reload, but I'll try later how it feels. The reload problem isn't new btw - I'm pretty sure that a lot pve players mentionned this.

 

I'm not interested in the secondaries - the Lex P is the only way to go :) .

Edited April 26, 2015 by Feyangol

[Kontrollo]

Right, but look at the DPS calculation for Sicarus Prime. The chart says 255.

 

They achieve that number by 17*3*5 = 255

17 is damage per bullet

3 is burst size

5 is rounds per second.

 

Working backwards from their resulting dps, the chart is assuming 'fire-rate' is actually 'bursts per second' for burst weapons, which is not true and is incorrectly inflating DPS for burstfire weapons.

 

Mea culpa, I assumed this was the case if you manage to fire them at their highest fire rate. But since I don't use macros and rarely use burst weapons I couldn't tell how it should be calculated instead.

 

If you have some insight, feel free to update it or tell me the how it works in detail, so I can correct that.

 

 

Also the melee DPS chart is wrong, its assuming that attack speed equals how many attacks per second which is not the case.

 

Melee DPS depends on the weapon type and its stances. These values are only there to compare weapons of the same kind, which is explained in the footnote. I put that in so you can see immediately how much worse a Dual Skana is compared to a Dex Dakra, for example.

 

Maybe I should add a weapon type column so you could sort by that and immediately see which weapons are superior in a given category?

 

 

Edit: P.S. Take all of these values with a grain of salt, anyway. Until we know the exact IPS values of a given weapon, the DPS is only a general indicator, it doesn't give us the complete picture.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Kontrollo

[Prof_Blocks_007]

Having used the Tigris and the Tonkor, I can say this:

 

Tonkor

• Hard to hit with due to slow projectiles
  
• Takes 2 shots to kill (from what I have seen)
  
• Grenades remain on the ground after firing, allowing for use of traps
  
• Throws players about (on both teams)
  
• Max clip size of 4 with Magazine Warp and R7 Tainted Mag
  
• Base ammo reserve is 3 clips worth (12 with max clip)
  

 

Tigris

• Hits hard, enough to kill quickly with a 2-shot burst at point blank range
  
• High damage falloff, very ineffective at range
  
• Somewhat large pellet spread
  
• Max clip size of 4 with Ammo Stock and R1 Burdened Magazine
  
• Base ammo reserve is 3 clips worth (12 with max clip)
  

 

 

I'm yet to test the Tonkor in the tunnel on the Lost Halls map...

Edited April 26, 2015 by Prof_Blocks_007

[Thalahssalyst]

Sybaris

The only problem, which I have with this weapon, is that it doesn't kill an Excal with 2 bursts (aka 4 bullets). Add +3/4 dmg and it will be exactly how I imagined it to be.

Wut?

I dont see why that weapon need to be a 2 shot kill.

Actually his dps its pretty nice...

If they buff that weapon again, you are going to see all players using that like happend before with mareloks poblation.

 

[Feyangol]

Wut?

I dont see why that weapon need to be a 2 shot kill.

Actually his dps its pretty nice...

If they buff that weapon again, you are going to see all players using that like happend before with mareloks poblation.

 

The dps isn't nice. It is clearly under the average dps. And it isn't a 2 shot kill - it is a 5 shot kill for squishy frames. This is not good for such a slow firing weapon. And you won't see very much more players, if the dmg would be buffed by +3/+4.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Feyangol

[Gnude]

hm... this buff would make sybaris stronger than prenerf lex (not marelok grimlock...)

actually i would love a good compensation for the lex nerf... played at least 140k standing without primary... but i think thats not gonna happen.

[Feyangol]

hm... this buff would make sybaris stronger than prenerf lex (not marelok grimlock...)

actually i would love a good compensation for the lex nerf... played at least 140k standing without primary... but i think thats not gonna happen.

Actually not.

The prenerf Lex had a ttk of 0,9 seconds for every frame. The current Sybaris has a ttk of ~1,8 seconds for every frame. I want a ttk of 1,2 seconds for squishy frames and ~1,8 seconds for tankier frames.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Feyangol

[Sil3nc3r]

I think the Sybaris is a relatively balanced weapon, on par with the Latron on some circumstances.

 

It's main drawback is the fact that it isn't hitscan and thus scoring the second shot from the burst can be damn right near impossible depending on which angle your target is from you.

 

It really only shines when shooting at targets that are either running straight at you, running from you in a straight line, or just standing still.

In every other circumstance, the Latron is a better alternative due to being hitscan and not relying on a burst to dish out damage.

 

Damage-wise, I found myself killing an Excalibur in 2-3 bursts. It really depends on its user's ability to land both burst-shots.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Sil3nc3r