CriticalFumble Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I can't debate against that because there's nothing in the lore to suggest towards or against it, but it seems highly unlikely to me. Well, the only direct evidence is Ordis wondering aloud about why his systems were disabled and memories erased. To the point where he lost his Sentient countermeasures that Simaris has to repair in The New Strange. Beyond that its the feel of the universe having some "forbidden knowledge" elements. And how thoroughly old records were lost. Even with a few thousand years having passed, seems like a stretch when the writers made artifacts that could withstand "Hell Space" indefinitely. Not much to go on, but its got one more line than the "Lotus is an AI" people have, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Well, the only direct evidence is Ordis wondering aloud about why his systems were disabled and memories erased. To the point where he lost his Sentient countermeasures that Simaris has to repair in The New Strange. Beyond that its the feel of the universe having some "forbidden knowledge" elements. And how thoroughly old records were lost. Even with a few thousand years having passed, seems like a stretch when the writers made artifacts that could withstand "Hell Space" indefinitely. Not much to go on, but its got one more line than the "Lotus is an AI" people have, at least. Hrmm, perhaps. Strikes me as a little... not cliche', can't really think of the word, for there to have been something bigger than the Sentients and the Tenno just "pffff" out of existence... Though, on re-reading that I see what you're getting that and agree more with it. I do think that a lot of loss of knowledge was the Tenno's doing - purging the technology that would have made the rise of corrupt empire easier and whatnot - and likely getting rid of Cephalon memories was the same idea. The reason for Lotus' apparent amnesia (it's not just the Sentient fragment, it's Hidden Message's as well) is mysterious. Could be she went into cryosleep with us, waking up for a day every few-hundred years to scan the system for signs of trouble, and over that time suffered as we had (though less dramatically because of the less-prolonged exposure and constant breaks), but we do need A LOT more in regards to that. Don't like the idea proposed in the second theory that the Tenno weren't responsible for the Orokin's demise, though. Doesn't line up with Teshin's recollection of the event, nor Stalkers - though Teshin's is without doubt the more trustworthy (for all you nutters whose saying "Stalker's just lying because he wants to kill Tenno for no reason"). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grihaly Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Don't like the idea proposed in the second theory that the Tenno weren't responsible for the Orokin's demise, though. Doesn't line up with Teshin's recollection of the event, nor Stalkers - though Teshin's is without doubt the more trustworthy (for all you nutters whose saying "Stalker's just lying because he wants to kill Tenno for no reason"). I still want to know why he chose to say we were 'seduced'... I mean, it's apparent DE likes their metaphors, but, like... Lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidWraith Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) It's not about that. Energy-life-forms are nothing new if you're familiar with Sci-Fi... I just find it stupid people think energy-beings need any form of physical containment. Why? In a supernatural/sci-fi sense; a soul can be considered a source of energy and the container for it, can be our bodies? Like what? And no, that white, goopy sh*t from Aliens doesn't count. Why not? Maybe that fluid is some type of cooling fluid or w/e that might be important to it? Probably nothing. It would probably move around there unharmed and just fine, weakened/hampered in the worst case. Certainly not vanishing or dying. It could "die" by having its energy turned into something else or get assimilated/consumed into some plasma gas radiation storm in space or w/e? The reason for them saying "We are your flesh" is the Infested were created from the Technocyte, and Warframes were created from the Technocyte. So we share 'flesh' with the Infested. (I don't believe we are infested under the frames, though) Perhaps we have the generic flesh, but the energy (basically the source of a Tenno) is what moves the flesh or frames? We don't technically know what the Tenno are, and how the Warframes interact or contain us. Honestly though, DE has some problems with their stories and lores. They purposely leave plot holes in it so as to leave it up to player imagination. The only thing we do know is that the Dark Sector game is not the prequel to Warframe, and is not related to each other. They are only spiritually connected but are of completely different realms/universes. This game is technically still beta, but the story is basically we are "Tenno" (w/e that is) and we are given the assumption to be guardians of balance in the galaxy, with 2 rivaling groups, and an apparent infestation going on from a third group. Edited April 30, 2015 by VoidWraith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grihaly Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Why not? Maybe that fluid is some type of cooling fluid or w/e that might be important to it? Why not because we're talking about machines bleeding. Cooling fluid, synthetic oil, etc. Whatever that stuff is, it's not blood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaigner Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Why not because we're talking about machines bleeding. Cooling fluid, synthetic oil, etc. Whatever that stuff is, it's not blood. If it moves and depends on internal liquids to survive, damaging it to leak that fluid can easily be passed as "bleeding" it. Edited April 30, 2015 by Campaigner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grihaly Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 If it moves and depends on internal liquids to survive, damaging it to leak that fluid can easily be passed as "bleeding" it. My point is: blood is red. Red is not white. Ergo, Alien universe androids do not bleed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaigner Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 My point is: blood is red. Red is not white. Ergo, Alien universe androids do not bleed. bleed [bleed] Spell Syllables verb (used without object), bled [bled] (Show IPA), bleeding. 1. to lose blood from the vascular system, either internally into the bodyor externally through a natural orifice or break in the skin: to bleed from the mouth. 2. (of injured tissue, excrescences, etc.) to exude blood: a wart that is bleeding. 3. (of a plant) to exude sap, resin, etc., from a wound. 4. (of dye or paint) to run or become diffused: All the colors bled when the dress was washed. 5. (of a liquid) to ooze or flow out. 6. to feel pity, sorrow, or anguish: My heart bleeds for you. A nation bleeds for its dead heroes. 7. to suffer wounds or death, as in battle: The soldiers bled for the cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CriticalFumble Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) Hrmm, perhaps. Strikes me as a little... not cliche', can't really think of the word, for there to have been something bigger than the Sentients and the Tenno just "pffff" out of existence... Though, on re-reading that I see what you're getting that and agree more with it. I do think that a lot of loss of knowledge was the Tenno's doing - purging the technology that would have made the rise of corrupt empire easier and whatnot - and likely getting rid of Cephalon memories was the same idea. The reason for Lotus' apparent amnesia (it's not just the Sentient fragment, it's Hidden Message's as well) is mysterious. Could be she went into cryosleep with us, waking up for a day every few-hundred years to scan the system for signs of trouble, and over that time suffered as we had (though less dramatically because of the less-prolonged exposure and constant breaks), but we do need A LOT more in regards to that. Don't like the idea proposed in the second theory that the Tenno weren't responsible for the Orokin's demise, though. Doesn't line up with Teshin's recollection of the event, nor Stalkers - though Teshin's is without doubt the more trustworthy (for all you nutters whose saying "Stalker's just lying because he wants to kill Tenno for no reason"). Yeah, the first one was a little too big an idea, it doesn't come out neatly in as short a space as I wrote. I do think there is something "behind the curtain" as it were, though I doubt its another alien race (at least in a conventional sense) that's even more dangerous than the Sentients. I was more referring to a "force" or "power". Most likely, whatever the Sentients were attempting to achieve, or something that became apparent due to their existence which would give enough reason to obliterate the records of what they were and what happened. Which is, not unlikely, related to the Void "Hell Space". If Corrupted Vor is anything like the Orokin were, its safe to say that whatever would advance them as a race would not necessarily be good for the rest of life in the universe, not the fabric thereof. edit: The Sentints are "inhuman" while the Orokin were either not at all or losing their humanity. They may have been willing to sacrifice things that couldn't be afforded to lose. Or it could simply be that we couldn't permanently kill them, and did all this to avoid awakening them again. Which, for one, seems like a bad idea unless you also start the gears in motion to develop a better counter to them; and for another obviously didn't work. The options for there being another alien race motivating this aren't terribly good, but a couple for example. One option is a precursor Void dwelling race, which is redundant with the Orokin. They're the ancient space mages, we don't need there to be another. Another is an anti-Sentient race that forced them to fight to learn from us in order to survive them. There's no good way to write that in, nor is there a "neat" way to deal with that here. Possibly something to do with the Infestation, as we don't understand their true nature, and might have the capacity to develop a high enough degree of intelligence to change from space zombies into something that can spread across the galaxy in an unstoppable tide - though if it were so bad that the Sentients decided to pro-actively salt the earth where the infestation could grow, I should think we would have written down, "Make sure to keep the infested dead!". And last, evil Void consciousness. But I don't actually see how inserting Chat- Cthuol- . . . Octopusface or the Flying Spaghetti Monster would improve the story at all. edit: The second line of thought is dated. Sorry, that one occurred to me before Widehat McPvP came along. With just the Stalker it would be possible that what he saw were puppets mistaken for Tenno, and he never learned the truth. As it stands, There isn't a good way to make that work except for the possiblity of Sentient agents erasing and more information to buy time or sowing misinformation in order to get others to do their work for them. Edited April 30, 2015 by CriticalFumble Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dartiel Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 A Tenno is inactive while a frame is cryosleeping. A Tenno could be incapacitated by causing his biological frame to cease functioning. Biological entity usually incapacitated when heavy blood loss occured. Bleeding frame did not prove that Tenno is not an energy being. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) I still want to know why he chose to say we were 'seduced'... I mean, it's apparent DE likes their metaphors, but, like... Lol Seduce doesn't HAVE to be about sex or sexuality - i.e. "he was seduced by power" - though generally I do have to agree that undertone is there... Could be that, based off of the theory of a chaste Orokin society, Teshin sees the luring of Tenno through false promises and lies Lotus did as being "wrong" enough to warrant a sexual connotation. Edited April 30, 2015 by Morec0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grihaly Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Seduce doesn't HAVE to be about sex or sexuality - i.e. "he was seduced by power" - though generally I do have to agree that undertone is there... Could be that, based off of the theory of a chaste Orokin society, Teshin sees the luring of Tenno through false promises and lies Lotus did as being "wrong" enough to warrant a sexual connotation. Ah, now we understand ;P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Ah, now we understand ;P Sadly, no we don't. We have a theory, but theory is not the same as understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grihaly Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Sadly, no we don't. We have a theory, but theory is not the same as understanding. We understand our theory, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 We understand our theory, then. We understand the theory of our theory, but I fear that our theory's theory may be impossible to theorize without theorizing a theory about how our theory's theory and other theories are all theorized. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedCrusade Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Mag: Look into my eyes... LOOK INTO MY EYES!!! ... Mag: Did you find them yet? Corpus: No?... Mag: Good EDIT: what i mean in this little story, is that mag's face doesn't have one. Oh and have you notice that in the Relays are fisic form tenno? (or thats what i think they are anyways >_>, and i dont know how to writte tenno in plural, dam im so confuced now >_<) No, those are just normal, scrawny, puny, fragile little paper humans. Also, Tenno is still Tenno plural. You're welcome~! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grihaly Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 We understand the theory of our theory, but I fear that our theory's theory may be impossible to theorize without theorizing a theory about how our theory's theory and other theories are all theorized. Now we are confusing us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidNomade Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 (edited) I must confess... Tenno are energy, pure raw sexual energy Edited April 30, 2015 by VoidNomade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Something tells me Lotus initiated the Orokin slaughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 I must confess... Tenno are energy, pure raw sexual energy Enjoy it before it's gone, boys. Something tells me Lotus initiated the Orokin slaughter. I think it was a group effort. It happened across many worlds, so I'm sure she was the one counting the seconds (which would make sense given the role she plays now in the lives of the Tenno; the same role she's been implied to have had during the Old War), making sure everyone was in place, but I think it was just as much the Tenno's idea to kill them in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyEnneract Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 She set the seeds, they just agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morec0 Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 She set the seeds, they just agreed. I feel it may be the other way around, to an extent. Lotus guides us on our path, after all - take, for example, us siding with the Corpus or Grineer in Invasions, not matter what, she's there for us - and we've demonstrated the ability to ignore her - G3 attacks, for example. She planned much of it, organized it, led us to it - which is all that Teshin sees - but it took the desires of the Tenno to see it done - which is all Stalker sees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grihaly Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 I think it was a group effort. It happened across many worlds, so I'm sure she was the one counting the seconds (which would make sense given the role she plays now in the lives of the Tenno; the same role she's been implied to have had during the Old War), making sure everyone was in place, but I think it was just as much the Tenno's idea to kill them in the first place. Maybe we chose to kill them, and she wiped our memories to try and start over the next time we wake up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VoidNomade Posted April 30, 2015 Share Posted April 30, 2015 Endboss in final warframe version WILL be lotus. it´s always like that in all those books and films and even history o3o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
(XBOX)Grihaly Posted April 30, 2015 Author Share Posted April 30, 2015 Endboss in final warframe version WILL be lotus. No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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