May 15Th: Hot Feedback Topics

[Kalenath]

Well... Again, as always we have the ones who can read and those who can't.

 

*sigh*

 

I personally am STOKED for the new warframe. I can't wait to see how he destroys bad guys. Log-in rewards update would be good too. As for Update 8? I can wait for that. I want it to be epic!

 

My opinion on the Pvp question had been posted in other threads, so I won't put it here.

 

And to anyone who feels 'entitled' to special treatment for playing a game on the internet (a F2P game at that) , my only reply is this...

 

*Raspberry*

Edited May 16, 2013 by Kalenath

[FrostWolf]

Wait.... a new Warframe and a new Tenno?

Cause, you know, Tenno and Warframe are different and if you say both a new Tenno and Warframe you saying that each Warframe has their own Tenno. And it's not just one Tenno hoping between frames.

 

LoreNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

Most of the art depicts the Tenno as individuals... so It was kinda the obvious choice >.>

 

I mean the whole Meta physical transfer entity was interesting -if alittle complicated/convoluted-

 

But I kinda prefer tha each Tenno is unique to themselves. -shrugs-

[UrsWanderer]

I have many ideas to solve a lot of problems named in this very interesting topic.

 

Login Reward: I think the idea with the resources is the best idea here. Not too much, because you want to earn money. So, first star is Ammo and Heals. The second star gives Resources. And finally the third star will reward the players with Mods.

 

New Warframe: Whats so bad in getting the parts additionally? If you want him fast, then give thme some money. Always think: If they have no money, we have no longer Warframe. So its very difficult to develope such things. They make great work, the most things you can get without Plat. Bu if youre lazy you need some or for Warframe Places. Very good system to get money and to be fair against F2Ps. And when my Warframe places are full, i buy one or two new places. Not so expensive, but the crowd will help them getting money. And the lazy players too :D

 

PvP: I am really a big fan of PvP. Anf if they cry for new PvP stuff, you can give them new maps or evironmental things. Like fire in the arenas, or you can choose a faction which is fighting with you. But please no reward system, keep it only for fun. And a fun only mode could get new stuff, too. So stay creative. And always hear what the players have to say.

[ArsVampyre]

If the BP are as rare as the artifacts, i.e. rifle amp, etc, it should be ok.  They pop up several times a day, usually.

If they're as rare as the weapon BP, forget it.  Trying to get three unique BP from events?  That's months of waiting to get lucky.  In the meantime, someone with more platinum than sense just buys it.  That's as close to Pay2win as you can get without it directly being Pay2win.

 

Of course, the frame might suck, then it'd be Pay2Lose.  I guess that'd be a turn.

[Aggh]

Cryptic much...? I have no idea what you're talking about.

 

On a different note:

I still think it's sort of a bad idea to add PvP of any kind, because as said, it will lead to people wanting more PvP modes, they will want team deathmatches, they will want free for alls, they will want and ask for more, and ask for PvP prizes, and rankings and PvP leaderboards, and then the game will turn PvP and I'll be very disappointed with the investment I put up for the Master Founder package.

I hope DE will hold their ground on casual clan-based PvP duels and nothing else, no balancing, etc.

People already want PvE modes and have wanted them for quite a while.

[Aggh]

Wow. Butthurt. I would like to propose a counter view to this... obscene gesture...

 

I am stoked that you have made a Frame that will truly be rare. A trophy to those who take the time and dedication to the game. A person with this means that they have given the effort to wield it. "regular gamers" will/should understand this and cherish the day they finally get all the pieces. As for us extreme gamers who hardly let their phones rest while checking for Alerts will be *rewarded*. That's right; this frame is a -privilege-. Gamers will have plenty of time to obtain it while gathering the other frames. Games need things like this so that the veteran gamers have things that they can point at and say, "Hey, I've put in the work. I'm dedicated to this game." Rather than have all of the veterans shrug off the fact that a newbie player that just started can get what they want with a little effortless grinding for a week. Not everything should be handed freely on a silver plate. This will bring out the real players and while the non-dedicated ones cry about putting in effort, the ones who care will just put in the time and reap just desserts.

This is lol worthy.  The people that will get it are the people that are watching twitter and don't have a life, not the people that are actually dedicated to the game.  Putting it in the alert system means that people will actually not be able to "put in the work" to get the frame since it's a question of whether it dropped when you weren't at work/sleeping/school etc. etc. and not a question of whether you are really dedicated to the game.

[FierceRadiance]

May I request DE consider the following improvements in the near future:

Fix the hostage exploits & Allow us to revive the hostage if he dies

 

Those two things need to happen at the same time.

The exploits referred to are ways to successfully complete hostage rescue missions while leaving the hostage behind, in contravention of both the co-op spirit of WF in general and the specific instructions of the hostage resuce missions.

 

The hostage death obliquely referred to occurred when the hostage got knocked down by a shockwave Moa and blown into a pile of burning Spooge, whereupon the hostage was immediately reduced to Spooge-Flavored Smoked Hostage Bacon.  Tasty, but not the result the Tenno were hoping for.

[Saeleril]

Some Hot Topics for everyone!

 

 

Should we bug Steve for the possible status update of the one time reset as well?  ;P

[Argoms]

New Warframe: Whats so bad in getting the parts additionally? If you want him fast, then give thme some money. Always think: If they have no money, we have no longer Warframe. So its very difficult to develope such things. They make great work, the most things you can get without Plat. Bu if youre lazy you need some or for Warframe Places. Very good system to get money and to be fair against F2Ps. And when my Warframe places are full, i buy one or two new places. Not so expensive, but the crowd will help them getting money. And the lazy players too :D

This isn't about wanting something quickly, it's about getting the thing requiring more than pure luck. That's what alerts are.

 

I know I'm not the only one that's actually refusing to spend money on the game unless alerts change.

[J3_Haustkottr]

Well darn. I was hyping myself for the last week and a half for either today (May 16) or tomorrow when i thought U8 would come out. I guess anything worth getting is worth waiting for.

[ZKAT8IT]

This isn't about wanting something quickly, it's about getting the thing requiring more than pure luck. That's what alerts are.

 

I know I'm not the only one that's actually refusing to spend money on the game unless alerts change.

Just about everything in the game is pure luck though. Mod drops are pure luck, BP drops are pure luck, etc... One could argue that the RNG produces a "false" result while farming a Warframe Blueprint while you're on for your 3-4 hours of game-time resulting you in not getting what you want that day for said blueprint. Same way the Alert system works. Just because you can visibly see the RNG at work on the Twitter feed or the Nexus App doesn't change anything. It's all the same system. Sure you can "force" the RNG to give you what you want faster by farming the bosses and missions repeatedly, but it's still the same as the alert system. Just you can't "force" the Alert system to produce random values quicker by farming it.

Edited May 17, 2013 by ZKAT8IT

[-TaQ-]

Wait.... a new Warframe and a new Tenno?

Cause, you know, Tenno and Warframe are different and if you say both a new Tenno and Warframe you saying that each Warframe has their own Tenno. And it's not just one Tenno hoping between frames.

 

LoreNOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!

 

Does this mean the Tenno change gender each time they put on a new frame? or...

LORENOOOOOOOOOO! D: ;D

[SilverBones]

Does this mean the Tenno change gender each time they put on a new frame? or...

LORENOOOOOOOOOO! D: ;D

 

*coughTranshumanismcough*

[DarthCariss]

Will we only ever be able to duel our clan members, or will there be a way to duel our friends from other clans?

[Gregio]

Will we only ever be able to duel our clan members, or will there be a way to duel our friends from other clans?

Yes, there is. Temporarily join their clan, then go back to your own. Besides, if you're all friends, shouldn't you all be on the same clan?

Otherwise, no. I hope not.

[Argoms]

Just about everything in the game is pure luck though. Mod drops are pure luck, BP drops are pure luck, etc... One could argue that the RNG produces a "false" result while farming a Warframe Blueprint while you're on for your 3-4 hours of game-time resulting you in not getting what you want that day for said blueprint. Same way the Alert system works. Just because you can visibly see the RNG at work on the Twitter feed or the Nexus App doesn't change anything. It's all the same system. Sure you can "force" the RNG to give you what you want faster by farming the bosses and missions repeatedly, but it's still the same as the alert system. Just you can't "force" the Alert system to produce random values quicker by farming it.

They're not pure luck. Alerts involve no player input other than happening to be there at the time.

 

If I kill a boss, I have a chance of getting the drop I want. If I don't, then I will never get the drop I want. If I kill a boss more, I have more chances of getting a drop I want. With alerts, I cannot control how often I have a chance of getting what I want.

[Mak_Gohae]

Does this mean the Tenno change gender each time they put on a new frame? or...

LORENOOOOOOOOOO! D: ;D

 

No that means that each Frame has it's own pilot instead of what you suggest of one person hopping between frames.

[RunNGun]

Anyone from DE, I'm dead-serious when I ask you to read what I have to say.

 

 

 

This is not good and I will be as clear as possible in explaining why.

With banshee there was some psychological strain as hunting for BP in random missions rather than boss farming feels like searching blindfolded (though it is fairly possible, I have crafted a Banshee my self). However having to find the Vauban BP parts in alerts will be far far worse, not only will we not be able to focus on a type of mission, we won't even be able to choose when or how often to attempt getting these BPs, it will be a slow torture.

But psychology aside even if the chances are a lot better than for orokin potatoes we will still need to find 3 different BP parts, which will exponentially decrease the chances to actually complete a Vauban; just for comparison we had 3 or 4 glaive alerts so far, if those were Vabuan BP parts then most likely one of the BP parts still wouldn't have appeared. Add to this that as humans we aren't online 24/7 and I cannot imagine many average players will craft a Vabuan before 2 or 3 months, unless these BP parts will be stupid-common.

 

I don't know how much time you devs have spent to come to this decision, but I can see only 2 outcomes:

A) If the BP isn't common enough there will be a ton of malcontent, much more than there was for the glaive. Unlucky players might not ever be able to craft a Vabuan as much as they'd like it because they cannot resort to farming it. The community was exaggerating when they said that because of the glaive alone the game was straying from free to play, but they might not be exaggerating once update 8 comes...

B) If the BP parts will be very common there will be an overflow of Vabuans in every game because so many players who might not have farmed it will find them selves with these BP parts and use them eventually. The BP parts will also reduce the chances to get other random rewards, so you will still get a ton of malcontent.

 

As long as you play consistently, you will be able to craft it eventually.

It is not a Pay-to-win model nor does it contribute to one. You pay for convenience, not the content.

It may be inconvenient to get, but hey, it very well may be worth the trouble.

 

You have a very valid point about drop rates; however, you could say the same about any farmable Warframe. Any Warframe would take 10-20 hours at max to farm, but it's all very doable within months of playtime.

 

Is there sometimes an overflow of people playing Rhino or Banshee? Yes. Is that necessarily a problem? Not necessarily. As long as Vauban itself is not inherently overpowered compared to other Warframes, there will not be this "overflow of Vaubans in every game".

 

Even if there is, it is not likely to last, as the majority of gamers will level it to 30 and play various other frames for fun.

[RunNGun]

So being a real player is about being lucky enough to be online during alerts or having a twitter account for said alerts?

 

That's a nice view you have there.

Why does no one in this game understand probability?

Yes, a percentage of gamers will be lucky enough, albeit a very low percentage, to find ? alert rewards that each give a different Vauban part BP the first three times they log in.

 

However, as the time logged in and the number of missions unlocked increases, the probability of not collecting all three Vauban part BPs decreases. At a certain point, there will be less than a 1% chance that a player will not have collected all three Vauban BPs

 

Sucks for that 1% of players, though. That 1% may have to wait months, but eventually, even they will obtain it.But usually they quit (because of other reasons) and find another game.

 

Remember this is only for players who don't use twitter and have no clue which ? alerts produce what. Probability to obtain BPs are greatly increased if you use twitter because the alerts may spawn during times the player is free, but not logged in.

 

There has yet to be anything in this game that requires hundreds of reruns of a mission. My friend played a game where the probability of finding a necessary resource in a mission and the resource upgrading his equipment to be less than 0.001% (some ridiculous percentage). 

He decided to go hardcore and pumped in 19 hours a day for a few months, maxed out his equipment, then quit the game forever. he probably ran tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of missions.

 

I haven't farmed a boss 100 times for BPs, yet. Warframe has yet to achieve that level of grinding. I hope it never does.

 

EDIT: I used really faulty logic. Corrected.

Edited May 17, 2013 by RunNGun

[FrostWolf]

No that means that each Frame has it's own pilot instead of what you suggest of one person hopping between frames.

 

Wouldn't that make more sense since one of the Frames is a Psionic?

[Mak_Gohae]

Wouldn't that make more sense since one of the Frames is a Psionic?

 

You are going to have to elaborate on what you mean cause i see all the frames as machines people put on.

Their powers have nothing to do with the people inside.

[Juncboks]

Why does no one in this game understand probability?

Yes, a percentage of gamers will be lucky enough, albeit a very low percentage, to find ? alert rewards that each give a different Vauban part BP the first three times they log in.

 

However, as the time logged in and the number of missions unlocked increases, the probability of not collecting all three Vauban part BPs decreases. At a certain point, there will be less than a 1% chance that a player will not have collected all three Vauban BPs

 

Sucks for that 1% of players, though. That 1% may have to wait months, but eventually, even they will obtain it.But usually they quit (because of other reasons) and find another game.

 

Remember this is only for players who don't use twitter and have no clue which ? alerts produce what. Probability to obtain BPs are greatly increased if you use twitter because the alerts may spawn during times the player is free, but not logged in.

 

There has yet to be anything in this game that requires hundreds of reruns of a mission. My friend played a game where the probability of finding a necessary resource in a mission and the resource upgrading his equipment to be less than 0.001% (some ridiculous percentage). 

He decided to go hardcore and pumped in 19 hours a day for a few months, maxed out his equipment, then quit the game forever. he probably ran tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of missions.

 

I haven't farmed a boss 100 times for BPs, yet. Warframe has yet to achieve that level of grinding. I hope it never does.

 

EDIT: I used really faulty logic. Corrected.

I'm glad someone actually gets what I'm saying. I guess people really are just butthurt about having to put forth the effort and not having it handed out with ease...

[Tattutattikawa]

" we will not be balancing any PvE elements of the game for this."

 

LOVE THIS. 

[Kalenath]

I'm glad someone actually gets what I'm saying. I guess people really are just butthurt about having to put forth the effort and not having it handed out with ease...

 

+1

 

Glad someone ELSE seems to think that having things handed to them on a silver platter MIGHT affect the game in adverse ways. I know that I personally am not entitled to diddly squat. I have to *gasp* pay for it or work for it.

Edited May 17, 2013 by Kalenath

[ArsVampyre]

Why does no one in this game understand probability?

Yes, a percentage of gamers will be lucky enough, albeit a very low percentage, to find ? alert rewards that each give a different Vauban part BP the first three times they log in.

 

However, as the time logged in and the number of missions unlocked increases, the probability of not collecting all three Vauban part BPs decreases. At a certain point, there will be less than a 1% chance that a player will not have collected all three Vauban BPs

 

Sucks for that 1% of players, though. That 1% may have to wait months, but eventually, even they will obtain it.But usually they quit (because of other reasons) and find another game.

 

Remember this is only for players who don't use twitter and have no clue which ? alerts produce what. Probability to obtain BPs are greatly increased if you use twitter because the alerts may spawn during times the player is free, but not logged in.

 

There has yet to be anything in this game that requires hundreds of reruns of a mission. My friend played a game where the probability of finding a necessary resource in a mission and the resource upgrading his equipment to be less than 0.001% (some ridiculous percentage). 

He decided to go hardcore and pumped in 19 hours a day for a few months, maxed out his equipment, then quit the game forever. he probably ran tens of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of missions.

 

I haven't farmed a boss 100 times for BPs, yet. Warframe has yet to achieve that level of grinding. I hope it never does.

 

EDIT: I used really faulty logic. Corrected.

That's not probability.  As time approaches infinity, all non-zero probabilities approach 100%.  You're not saying anything important.

 

Attaching the BP to a RNG, like the glaive or the plasma sword or any of the other Alert only BP when you can buy it for Plat is close to pay to win because the probabilities of getting the BP you need is increasingly low.  At least with the Glaive it was only the one blueprint; now you must find three DIFFERENT blueprints.  If you're like most people, you only have a few hours a day you can give to warframe; I have a job, a family, a community, and all sorts of other demands for my time.  You can say 'well just buy it with Plat', but at the cost of what most Frames are in plat, that's insulting.

 

I'm not really upset because 1) I have plenty of other things I can do in Warframe and 2) I recognize that DE needs to continue having a revenue stream and that founder's pack purchases can't go on forever.  Rebecca also stated they'll be much more common than the glaive in how often they appear; we shall see.

 

Regardless, the blatant dismissal by some of how people feel this makes the game more Pay to Win is the antithesis of helpful; the product is still in Beta and now is the time to voice concerns or suggestions.  Instead of trying to shut them up, just state your own opinion and move on.

 

Warframe has a lot of life left in it still, but that's no reason people shouldn't try to tell DE where they think they're going wrong.  Like telling them they'd sell more stuff for Plat if the prices were more impulse-purchase sized, I think the criticism is helpful.