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May 1St: Community Hot Topics!


[DE]Drew
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First things first: the poll only let me click 'Improved Archwing Mini-Map' one time, but THE 2-D MINI-MAP SO DESPERATELY NEEDS IMPROVEMENT!

 

That said (SHOUTED)...

 

TL;DR - I think Power Creep can be a good thing, which apparently goes against most of the Forum Wisdom on the topic (which those who know me knows will bother me so greatly much).  Here's my two cents on the matter.

 

A)  Without PC, players are essentially buying the same gun over and over again, with a leeetle bit more of this and a leeetle bit less of that...  But by and large, it's the same weapon with a new skin - old wine in new bottles.  Having bought and leveled damn near every single one of those weapons, I'm ready for a better boom stick. 

 

B)  DE has come out against rainbow-build weapons in the past, and I think similar logic can be applied to this situation.  Essentially, we're using very nearly the same weapon against everything, with only modest differences between them.  Yes, some work better than others against this faction or that, and I'm sure min-maxers can point out what the differences are, but how is this different from the rainbow-build weapons which DE disliked so much they rocked the game in order to get rid of them?  I think the game would be improved by offering better weapons to higher-level, more experienced players.  I also think it would give lower-level players something to look forward to qualifying for (and maybe even BUYING - see next point).

 

C)  Let these weapons be purchasable only, rather than acquired via the grand grind.  And there it goes - I'm already being deafened by the cries of "Pay To Win".  Yeah, you could choose to see it that way.  But consider: If these weapons are level-locked to, say L15 or 16 or 18, these are players that have invested hundreds of hours in the game.  These are true game supporters and enthusiasts, and I think they have demonstrated their dedication to the game.  I suspect they'd be willing to spend a couple of bucks, buy a few hundred plat, and purchase a game-changing weapon.  DE could limit their use, if they so chose, to only boss battles, or only trials, or in any other way they choose, so we don't see vets blowing large gaping holes in Mercury missions.  This opportunity would also DE to design some really deadly new weapons. 

 

Let's just brainstorm here for a minute - what about a weapon system with different charges, consumables which would be inserted into the weapon to give it blast damage, or poison, or electricity (yup, single damage type OR combo types!)  These charges would have to be purchased with credits, would be vastly more powerful than their more traditional counterparts, and could be expelled from the weapon and replaced while in mission, as they ran out or as enemy types changed.  Or what about an emplacement-type weapon, OP as dog-snot but slow to set-up or break back down again and move?  Obviously, strategic positioning would be key, and boss mobility would also be an important factor in deciding whether to equip it against a given boss.  Howzabout a true shoulder-mounted missile rig, which only came with four rounds and had to be locked on a target before it could be fired?  Or a weapon that more that one WF had to pack in the components for, to be assembled when you reached the boss?  I think this could work well with the emplacement weapon above, and would be in keeping with DE's 'four-parts-to-nearly-every-frame-and-gun' strategy.  How about an Atterax-type weapon with Blast damage that you throw, set off, and then "fire" again to reel back? 

 

Let these bosses be beatable (barely) (maybe) with more conventional weapons, but give veterans the opportunity to buy PC weapons, as they earn the right to wield them.  Again, the TL;DR here is, Power Creep doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, IF it's properly structured by DE and used by players.

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Archwing mini map needs to be a 3D radar. Up and down arrows just doesn't cut it OR give us a new UI element that is a 3D radar centered at hte bottom.

All for a new minmap, but it should stay where it is. Keeping it at the top of the screen encourages players to look up and be more aware of their surroundings.

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Normalize the damage model and then start reducing spike damage from bosses. No one likes cheap hitscan one shot explosive attacks.

 

Prime mods? Screw your mod system. Gut and replace the entire progression system. Prime mods should not exist at all.

 

The whole game needs a better mini-map. Preferably one that has some form of consistency between rooms.

 

Avatar packs are worthless. How about you fix the horrible text editor instead so I can actually see the BB Code?

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Archwing boss would be epic. depending what kind it will be. NO key requirement or its instantly out of my day.

(Boss with many phases/forms in one mission would be interesting.)

 

Also worst thing with archwing is that leveling up gear takes days and weeks..

 

Also meteorite mining would be epic. Giving it a whole new mission  is good idea.

 

I dont like archwing void myself. regular void missions are enought annoying already as currently 80% rewards are cores/resources/forma bp..

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First things first: the poll only let me click 'Improved Archwing Mini-Map' one time, but THE 2-D MINI-MAP SO DESPERATELY NEEDS IMPROVEMENT!

 

That said (SHOUTED)...

 

TL;DR - I think Power Creep can be a good thing, which apparently goes against most of the Forum Wisdom on the topic (which those who know me knows will bother me so greatly much).  Here's my two cents on the matter.

 

A)  Without PC, players are essentially buying the same gun over and over again, with a leeetle bit more of this and a leeetle bit less of that...  But by and large, it's the same weapon with a new skin - old wine in new bottles.  Having bought and leveled damn near every single one of those weapons, I'm ready for a better boom stick. 

 

B)  DE has come out against rainbow-build weapons in the past, and I think similar logic can be applied to this situation.  Essentially, we're using very nearly the same weapon against everything, with only modest differences between them.  Yes, some work better than others against this faction or that, and I'm sure min-maxers can point out what the differences are, but how is this different from the rainbow-build weapons which DE disliked so much they rocked the game in order to get rid of them?  I think the game would be improved by offering better weapons to higher-level, more experienced players.  I also think it would give lower-level players something to look forward to qualifying for (and maybe even BUYING - see next point).

 

C)  Let these weapons be purchasable only, rather than acquired via the grand grind.  And there it goes - I'm already being deafened by the cries of "Pay To Win".  Yeah, you could choose to see it that way.  But consider: If these weapons are level-locked to, say L15 or 16 or 18, these are players that have invested hundreds of hours in the game.  These are true game supporters and enthusiasts, and I think they have demonstrated their dedication to the game.  I suspect they'd be willing to spend a couple of bucks, buy a few hundred plat, and purchase a game-changing weapon.  DE could limit their use, if they so chose, to only boss battles, or only trials, or in any other way they choose, so we don't see vets blowing large gaping holes in Mercury missions.  This opportunity would also DE to design some really deadly new weapons. 

 

Let's just brainstorm here for a minute - what about a weapon system with different charges, consumables which would be inserted into the weapon to give it blast damage, or poison, or electricity (yup, single damage type OR combo types!)  These charges would have to be purchased with credits, would be vastly more powerful than their more traditional counterparts, and could be expelled from the weapon and replaced while in mission, as they ran out or as enemy types changed.  Or what about an emplacement-type weapon, OP as dog-snot but slow to set-up or break back down again and move?  Obviously, strategic positioning would be key, and boss mobility would also be an important factor in deciding whether to equip it against a given boss.  Howzabout a true shoulder-mounted missile rig, which only came with four rounds and had to be locked on a target before it could be fired?  Or a weapon that more that one WF had to pack in the components for, to be assembled when you reached the boss?  I think this could work well with the emplacement weapon above, and would be in keeping with DE's 'four-parts-to-nearly-every-frame-and-gun' strategy.  How about an Atterax-type weapon with Blast damage that you throw, set off, and then "fire" again to reel back? 

 

Let these bosses be beatable (barely) (maybe) with more conventional weapons, but give veterans the opportunity to buy PC weapons, as they earn the right to wield them.  Again, the TL;DR here is, Power Creep doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing, IF it's properly structured by DE and used by players.

 

DE isn't going to waste resources making something that's purchasable only with plat, and put it behind a MR rank gate as high as the one you mentioned. They may be making a game, but they're running a business too.

 

I like the idea of tying power to Mastery Rank, but I wouldn't go about in that way.

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New Avatars
The Grineer avatars were created and released after we saw a request from the community to include them, so this hot topic is really about what else you think would make a cool avatar. The source thread has some good ideas. Corpus Crewmen would be awesome, obviously, but what else? Would you like an infested avatar? Post your ideas in this thread!

 

Yes please, but it doesn't have to be just enemies, why not syndicate avatars? 

 

I would totally buy the pack just to be a red veil operative >:D 

 

The avatars can also be Cephalons too, I'm 99% sure that a large amount of people will appreciate that

____________________________________________________________________________________

 

Boss Creep/Evolution 

 

There has to be way more mini bosses than the actually bosses, think of the hierarchy of power, as we go done the ranks there are more units per tier, but posses less power. 

 

For example:

 

Grineer Hierachy

 

Tier 1 (Bosses): Vor, Vay Hek, Tyl Regor, etc...

 

Tier 2 (Mini Bosses): Sprag & Venkra

 

Tier 3 (Standard Infantry): All the units we face in our regular battles (Lancers, bombards, etc....) 

 

Tier 1 has a lot of units, Tier 2 has less than 1, it should be the opposite. As we go down the Tiers the amount of enemies should increase but the power/control they posses should be decreased. 

 

That being said, I think mini bosses should often appear on regular missions, or they can work like assassins, (G3, Zanuka, Stalker)

Or maybe closer to the Grineer manic

Edited by (XB1)LexaHex488
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Prime Mods
The source thread for this topic lists some suggestions for new prime mods and has several pages of ideas from players. Rather than reiterating ideas from the source thread, what do you think makes a good prime mod? Are there any mods that you think should never be made prime? Why? Have you been happy so far with the prime mods and their stats? Are there any that you think are particularly good or bad? 

 

The problem with prime mods is that we're still doing cookie cutter builds. For example If a primary weapon isnt crit we have the holy trinity (Serration, heavy cal. split chamber), three elemental mods, and usually a fire rate mod. If it is a crit weapon its the holy trinity, vital sense and point strike, and two elemental mods. It's the same build that can be repeated over and over 95% of the time. Although this is extremely unoriginal it does yield (usually) the best dps your weapon can achieve. If a primed version of any of these "cookie cutter" mods came out it'll further increase dps. Primed Heated charge greatly improved dps for some secondaries. However, you're releasing mods like mutation and fast hands. Mutation isnt needed on 95% of secondaries and primed fast hands only gives like a 10% more reload speed than the regular. Primed Heavy impact is a niche mod that only really benefits magistar, ankyros, and jatt kitang and a couple others, but it's really only used on Jatt. Primed ravage is nice on paper but the way shotgun crits work is counter intuitive. Primed reach only benefits orthos/prime. I think primed flow and continuity are the best ones because of the fact that a cookie cutter build doesnt apply to them. They're all different. 

 

I think the utility mods should not ever be primed - things like ammo drum, fast hands, ammo stock, mutations, etc. These are maybe used less than 1% of the time. However, if they are going to be primed give us a utility slot for our weapons (much like aura slot).

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Boss Creep/Evolution

Variety is always appreciated. With some reworks we got a weapon as a drop. I loved when Vor dropped Seer pistol - its not only fun to get some bonus rewards but Seer itself fits the boos theme. And i wish to see even more drops like this.

Getting weapons from only market/research is not always fun. Let them drop from enemies (both champions and bosses/mini-bosses). If you have a weapon that will be retired from market - put it into a eximus (from the same faction) drop table.

But what i miss in boss reworks are the assassin missions itself. Its just go from point A to point B and kill the boss. No puzzles, mini quests, hindrances, bonuses stages...  A lot of player just rush to boss room and kill it asap...

 

Prime Mods

IMO primed mods should benefit ALL types of weapons/frames and should not benefit only one/few of them. Those later mods could be not only mandatory for those weapons but even op.And we not only will have to get them but also max them. And I'm against gonna get/max them all. it kills the purpose and joy.

But that one side of the coin the second one is the prise of ranking up those. they are even harder than rare mods. Players need to farm as much as possible fusion cores and credits to even lvl up those mods to a decent rank. not to mention maxing it.

But the worst thing is that there is no good solution to work this out - at least in 5 min period of time.

Giving us already maxed mods is also a bad idea.

Introducing a complete new mods (without counterparts) could also be interesting.
 
Archwing

The biggest problem what we have with outer space Archwing missions is that it don't feel like we are in space. The mechanics we currently have would work in place with a gravity but not where there is 0G (state of free-fall). So 360 degrees control could help and be fun.

The mini map... it should work as a 2d proximity radar (for both enemies and their missiles).

But what how do tell you more bluntly xD Go watch some gundam anime with some space fights.

 

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Archwing:

 

Combat should be fast-paced. Archwing should not slow down when firing weapon, only when aiming. Archwing melee is fast-paced and exciting. Shooting guns should be too.

 

You cannot aim all the way up or all the way down. It kills space combat immersion. Limiter on vertical direction changes should be removed. Save the limiter for sharkwing. 

 

Mini-map needs work. It doesn't cover 3D spaces well.

 

Bosses:

 

I think we should have mini-boss assassination targets as our planetary bosses and we should have more reserve the more epic bosses for quests, raids, events, or special missions.

Edited by DietEbolaCola
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still waiting on an explanation as to how these "hot topics" are chosen. 

i would assume the choice is made by topic relevance and limitation due tu the fact that all hot topic subject can't be just throw at DE face like that (here these are the community concern deal with it NAOW  /throw thousand Ko of complain and feedback)

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Primed mods are, as a whole, terrible. Not terrible in the sense that they are useless, but terrible in the sense that they are one of two things:

 

a) blatant power creep that throws an already broken state of balance further out of whack, or

b) disgraceful attempts at making community-coined "useless" mods useful when said "useless" mods could have done with a buff.

 

One of the biggest problems with the structure of Warframe is that you continuously confuse "progression" with "loot." The mod system is a great vessel for loot and customization, which has the potential to add a great degree of depth to the game. Unfortunately, it still has the only significant stat progression available to players hard-baked into it, which means that the legitimate choices available to us shrink considerably after a certain point. 

 

Progression governed by RNG is both frustrating and unfair to newcomers. Putting the only non-RNG progression outside of the tutorial into end-game availability like you've done with Primed Mods is just foolish. 

 

You guys have had Focus in the pipeline for a long time now, and you keep shoving it off to the side because you realized that it essentially did the same thing the mod system did: increase the player's power. I think it's time to put Focus back on the table and use it to replace the function of the mod system and change mods into actual customization options. This has several benefits:

 

a) Progression is no longer tied to RNG. New players will always have access to the tools they need to move forward.

b) Mods will rise in value (to the player, not to the plat market, but I don't think plat worth should be a major consideration) in that there will not be any completely "useless" mod drops until the player already has the mod maxed out. 

c) It will give you a much greater degree of control over power-creep, provided you pay attention to it. The community will still complain about nerfs and buffs, but you will have fewer total items that need to be balanced and balance changes will be somewhat dissociated from players' hard-earned treasures. 

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i would assume the choice is made by topic relevance and limitation due tu the fact that all hot topic subject can't be just throw at DE face like that (here these are the community concern deal with it NAOW  /throw thousand Ko of complain and feedback)

so basically they chose whatever they want and we just have to roll with it. guess that's one way to avoid facing community concerns that don't side themselves with de. 

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Bosses: they need to be important. The build up to a boss is what makes you love to hate them. More mini bosses is always a great idea, as are giant boss fights (not talking about raids) and more unique bosses.

Archwing: we don't need more affinity or more resources. We need easier gain of mods. Mods are so critical to progression in this game, but their drop rate is horid. Also, yes increased mission variety is a must.

Edited by Khaos_Zand3r
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One really simple Archwing suggestion: make archwing specific affinity challenges!  I don't know if I want to laugh or cry when I see 'Hack a console' pop up at the start of a mission.

 

Or pistol kills.  Or rifle kills. Or stealth kills (doable but hard).  Or headshots (doable on a select few enemies).  And so on.

 

The biggest thing to do with the game mode though is give us some reason to play it.  That's vague sure, but at its core its really easy.  I play the things that reward me with the things that I want.

 

Hijack... never play it.  Game mode sucks and has no reward.

 

Rescue 2.0... play it once in a blue moon when I want specter blue prints.

 

Spy 2.0... love the crap out of it and play it all the time.  The affinity gain is awesome.  The reward pool including old event mods is awesome.  Game mode is thus awesome.

 

For me Archwing was in the Rescue category simply because I wanted to get all the mods (a completionist) and I really wanted the mastery.  Now I have both and its gone in Hijack territory.

 

 

EDIT:  one way to make it more rewarding to play AW is have Baro buy my extra parts for Ducats.  I think you can make that fit the lore since Baro is already tied to AW.

Edited by (PS4)Agent_CHAR
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Good to see we are back to community hot topics every fortnight. Let's see what's to discuss this time.

 

Boss Creep/Evolution

 

The thing about the human bosses is that they didn't just get visual and gameplay make overs, but also became more involved in the active story of Warframe via events and the tutorial.

When the game went open beta the bosses were nothing but road blocks. For that kind of role there didn't need to be big things at stake or epic levels. They just needed to deliver a more challenging fight and have something to stick out from the regular enemies.

 

However the more these characters begann to play roles outside their assassination missions, the less it actualy makes sense for them to be just regular mission targets. Because they become too important for Warframe's story. 

 

1. Do you think the stakes should be high when bosses are involved?

Depends on how much the bosses are involved in game's story outside their mission. If their role can be contained in the mission, then no there doesn't need to be big things at stake.

However if they are constantly active in the game's backround story and important people for past and future Community Events, then fighting them should feel like doing something important.

 

2. Should bosses be just assassination targets without much impact?

Only if their role can be contained within the story of their assassination missions. Enemies like Jackal, Hyena, Ambulas, Lephantis and "The Mars Sarge" for example are self contained within their mission. You kill/destroy them and the problems are resolved.

If they are however vital power players within their faction's politics or who have dealt with the Tenno in the past, their deaths should logically have some meaning and build up.

 

3. Maybe a mix of epic and ordinary?

Well there is the option to have story important bosses survive or escape their assassinations. As introduced with Vay Hek. With that their standard boss fights could be more ordinary, while their actual deaths could be big events.

 

4. Would you like to see more mini-bosses added?

Mini bosses could be interesting both as additional challenges in missions and to flesh out the factions. They wouldn't need some important backstory or be involved in big power strugles, but could give some insight into the command structure of their factions.

 

Mini-bosses could also be a good chance to re-use some of the old boss designs. They wouldn't need full backstories or be involved in the politics, but just be lower ranked members who stick out from the common soldiers.

 

5. Are you happy with the recent boss updates?

I don't like all the designs but it's nice to see those characters getting expanded and become more unique.

 

6. What else would you improve, if anything?

The gameplay of fighting these bosses definetly needs improvement. Dispelling abilities and invicibility times are not really adding much challenge. Though i can understand how making bosses not crumble under the barrage of 4 players withing seconds is a very difficult task.
 

 

Prime Mods

I still don't understand why we need these mods at all?

 

Didn't Steve once mused how it might have been better if all mods had drawbacks like the corrupted ones, so there wouldn't be as many "essential" mods?

 

Primed mods are not changing anything about the problem with the mod system. So of course people are going to be unhappy if the next primed mod is just one of the "useless" ones rather than one of the "essential".

 

Archwing

 

I think what could be helpfull is to know what DE's intention or vision is for this mode?

 

If it's meant to be an important part of the game, there is plenty that could be added or expanded and it would certainly need that expansion.

Having played space combat sims i can think of a few things.

 

However if the intention is just to have some side content for a change of pace, it might actualy be better to simplefy Archwing. Like removing the mods entirely from the mode and focus more on arcade style point/credit hunting.

Edited by Othergrunty
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ARCHWING

 

I *flipping* love archwing. It is so cool, warframes flying and shooting anb bloohoo!! But, I really think that The Devs need to take a page out of Shattered Horizon's book.  

 

Shattered Horizon is a first-person shooter video game developed and published by Futuremark Games Studio. The game was released on the Steam digital distribution service on 4 November 2009.

 

Wiki Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shattered_Horizon

 

You see, In SH, the Minimap is a sphere, not a 2d image. "You" are in the center of the sphere, and red dots around the sphere are enemies/allies/loot chambers. I could easily see waypoints, enemy radar, and mission icons being easily applicable to this mini-map orientation.

 

Additionally, there is the option to grav-latch onto debris and other surfaces. The reason this feature is in SH is because fring not latched on to a surface makes recoil more of a factor and aiming is nigh impossible. I feel like this is a feature that should be added to archwing.

 

I also think that the destructibles are an idea that could/should be expanded upon. Like fuel cannisters in the normal game that can hurt both you and the enemy, what if blowing up meteors sends bebris flying towards you and the enemy, dealing Void Laser level damage.

 

AND THERE WILL BE AN ARCHWING BOSS RAID!! YAY!!!

 

 

I love Archwing, and I am very much looking forward to what Los Dev-os are going to do with it.

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....

 

One of the biggest problems with the structure of Warframe is that you continuously confuse "progression" with "loot." The mod system is a great vessel for loot and customization, which has the potential to add a great degree of depth to the game. Unfortunately, it still has the only significant stat progression available to players hard-baked into it, which means that the legitimate choices available to us shrink considerably after a certain point. 

 

Progression governed by RNG is both frustrating and unfair to newcomers. Putting the only non-RNG progression outside of the tutorial into end-game availability like you've done with Primed Mods is just foolish. 

 

You guys have had Focus in the pipeline for a long time now, and you keep shoving it off to the side because you realized that it essentially did the same thing the mod system did: increase the player's power. I think it's time to put Focus back on the table and use it to replace the function of the mod system and change mods into actual customization options. This has several benefits:

 

a) Progression is no longer tied to RNG. New players will always have access to the tools they need to move forward.

b) Mods will rise in value (to the player, not to the plat market, but I don't think plat worth should be a major consideration) in that there will not be any completely "useless" mod drops until the player already has the mod maxed out. 

c) It will give you a much greater degree of control over power-creep, provided you pay attention to it. The community will still complain about nerfs and buffs, but you will have fewer total items that need to be balanced and balance changes will be somewhat dissociated from players' hard-earned treasures. 

 

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