Please Fix Synoid Gammacor

[DopingMD]

all i see in this thread is synoid haters!

 

 

.....

 

The idiots that are claiming the Synoid is still the same as before are hypocrites and liars.

 

Even with a maxed Primed Ammo Mutation that weapon loose its interest.

 

....

 

If you can't understand that well... I guess you're hopeless.

.....

and finally someone who understands it.

 

Noobs keep telling it has the same DPS...and? its not a real argument ... who da hell gives  a fk about your DPS when u run out of ammo so quickly-nobody need such dps (and ye I'm using primed mutation aswell-still sux,and im not using anemic agility or gunslinger)!

Do not compare  synoid to Vipers or Furis ,those weapons didn't suffer such ridicoulos changes!(they had their high fire rate from start) 

 

you could compare it to dex furis only in that case when Dex's fire rate would get from 20 to 150

 

so there are no arguments that is was a ridiculous nerf!

Edited May 7, 2015 by doping91

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

Yeah, the problem with Pistol Mutation is that it eats a mod slot (strict DPS loss) without fully compensating for the ammo guzzling.

 

I really dislike using mutations. I wish DE would release a mod slot a la Melee Stances/Aura Slots for ammo mutations/zoom/reload speed and stuff like that.

[UltimateSpinDash]

Yeah, the problem with Pistol Mutation is that it eats a mod slot (strict DPS loss) without fully compensating for the ammo guzzling.

 

I really dislike using mutations. I wish DE would release a mod slot a la Melee Stances/Aura Slots for ammo mutations/zoom/reload speed and stuff like that.

Because we really need to mod for all DPS.

The mod system isn't just for damage mods you know.

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

Because we really need to mod for all DPS.

The mod system isn't just for damage mods you know.

*examines high level enemy health values*

*sees high numbers*

*examines sgammacor's crit and status*

*sees low crit chance and status measured per second*

 

Well, when you show a man a nail, he'll ask for a hammer.

[DSpite]

Yeah, the problem with Pistol Mutation is that it eats a mod slot (strict DPS loss) without fully compensating for the ammo guzzling.

 

I really dislike using mutations. I wish DE would release a mod slot a la Melee Stances/Aura Slots for ammo mutations/zoom/reload speed and stuff like that.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Synoid_Gammacor/t_30_23232030_193-0-5-195-6-5-200-7-5-204-2-10-206-4-5-210-3-5-404-5-5-487-1-10_193-6-487-8-204-7-210-5-206-6-404-9-195-6-200-9/en/3-0-55/0

 

On paper this has 45K Burst, 27K Sustained, AND has an ammo mutator. You are just meant to use it accurately and in controlled shorter bursts now, and not as a 25 meter lightsaber.

 

If you can't use a gun that does that level of damage without even taking off an EXTRA mod and adding more utility please go play on Mercury.

 

It's a secondary for goodness sake, and it does AoE Syndicate effects. Cry me a river with the "overnerf" posts.

[BloodForTheBloodGods]

My complaint about the Synoid gammacor, would be you cant use it without it running out of ammo anymore. To build the entropy effect, the weapon needs to be out. Too often, I find myself quick meleeing, because the sgammacor has run out of ammo; and I use controlled bursts. Perhaps I should just save the sgammacor for when using Nekros or Hydroid, so I don't run out of ammo...

[UltimateSpinDash]

*examines high level enemy health values*

*sees high numbers*

*examines sgammacor's crit and status*

*sees low crit chance and status measured per second*

 

Well, when you show a man a nail, he'll ask for a hammer.

About what enemy levels are we talking about?

[Flowen231]

About what enemy levels are we talking about?

At high end play (which is where this weapon should be thriving) enemies are level 80. And In endless missions they can reach even higher, but yeah, lv 80.

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Synoid_Gammacor/t_30_23232030_193-0-5-195-6-5-200-7-5-204-2-10-206-4-5-210-3-5-404-5-5-487-1-10_193-6-487-8-204-7-210-5-206-6-404-9-195-6-200-9/en/3-0-55/0

 

On paper this has 45K Burst, 27K Sustained, AND has an ammo mutator. You are just meant to use it accurately and in controlled shorter bursts now, and not as a 25 meter lightsaber.

 

If you can't use a gun that does that level of damage without even taking off an EXTRA mod and adding more utility please go play on Mercury.

 

It's a secondary for goodness sake, and it does AoE Syndicate effects. Cry me a river with the "overnerf" posts.

Dude, have you not been following at all? The weapon eats more ammo than you pick up in a pistol ammo drop while the laser is extending, ergo if you use it in controlled bursts against every individual enemy on screen you will waste ammo for no reason. And even with a mutator you run out of ammo laughably fast, guess how much DPS a weapon that constantly has 0 ammo has!?

 

Dspite man, I've seen your posts on the forums, I know you're a smart guy, please use your noodle on this one too.

Edited May 7, 2015 by Flowen231

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

i only use the weapon with volt prime and nova prime now, while always using primed pistol ammo mutation

[UltimateSpinDash]

At high end play (which is where this weapon should be thriving) enemies are level 80. And In endless missions they can reach even higher, but yeah, lv 80.

The only point in regular play where enemies start at that level is the Raid.

 

All other scenarios include endless missions. DE has stated the area they want to balance for, 30-50 minutes/waves IIRC, although that is pretty vague (T1? T4?).

If we are really talking about enemies that high, your argument has little to stand on.

 

 

However, I will give this weapon a few more spins when I'm not occupied.

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

http://warframe-builder.com/Secondary_Weapons/Builder/Synoid_Gammacor/t_30_23232030_193-0-5-195-6-5-200-7-5-204-2-10-206-4-5-210-3-5-404-5-5-487-1-10_193-6-487-8-204-7-210-5-206-6-404-9-195-6-200-9/en/3-0-55/0

 

On paper this has 45K Burst, 27K Sustained, AND has an ammo mutator. You are just meant to use it accurately and in controlled shorter bursts now, and not as a 25 meter lightsaber.

 

If you can't use a gun that does that level of damage without even taking off an EXTRA mod and adding more utility please go play on Mercury.

 

It's a secondary for goodness sake, and it does AoE Syndicate effects. Cry me a river with the "overnerf" posts.

Hey! Secondaries are weapons, too! Just because it belongs in a different slot doesn't mean it has to suck up ammo! Some of us use these as primaries while carrying a heavy weapon in our main slot.

 

Also, this is a really funny joke. We complain about ammo supply and you literally give a gun that has 12 seconds of ammo. Bravo.

[UltimateSpinDash]

@Flowen321

I just ran a T4 Survival with the Synoid Gammacor, Boltor Prime and Dakra Prime. I mostly used the Synoid to test it's ammo efficiency.

 

I ran out of ammo at the 29 minute mark.

HOWEVER:

1) I was playing solo. I'm not sure if higher levels spawn less enemies for solo players (I know lower difficulties do, not sure about T4 though), but even then, on a four man team you can often pick up ammo without having to kill yourself, and if a Nekros is with you, it's even better.

2) My Primed Ammo Mutation is only at rank six.

3) I was also running out of ammo on my Boltor Prime. Level 50+ enemies just take alot of ammo to kill if you are alone.

 

CheckYourSix said earlier that Ammo Mutations do not work if the weapon is holstered, and I can confirm that this is the case. Because of this, I think this is a flaw of Ammo Mutations, not the Synoid Gammacor. I think this should be changed.

Edited May 8, 2015 by UltimateSpinDash

[Flowen231]

@Flowen321

I just ran a T4 Survival with the Synoid Gammacor, Boltor Prime and Dakra Prime. I mostly used the Synoid to test it's ammo efficiency.

 

I ran out of ammo at the 29 minute mark.

HOWEVER:

1) I was playing solo. I'm not sure if higher levels spawn less enemies for solo players (I know lower difficulties do, not sure about T4 though), but even then, on a four man team you can often pick up ammo without having to kill yourself, and if a Nekros is with you, it's even better.

2) My Primed Ammo Mutation is only at rank six.

3) I was also running out of ammo on my Boltor Prime. Level 50+ enemies just take alot of ammo to kill if you are alone.

 

CheckYourSix said earlier that Ammo Mutations do not work if the weapon is holstered, and I can confirm that this is the case. Because of this, I think this is a flaw of Ammo Mutations, not the Synoid Gammacor. I think this should be changed.

Just saw your other post btw. Whenever I do T4 it's an hour (that's just me though, not necessarily everyone) and whenever I do it with people I aim for 80 min, sometimes 100 depending on the party and the plan. If they want to camp, I can just grab mirage and we can go up to 3 hours lol.

 

IIRC (I'm not sure myself, it's just what I've seen people write on the forums) if you are solo less enemies show up. And yes, you are right, it's alot easier in a team. More abilities are used, you have CP, and nekros to help with ammo. Even with a maxed primed mutation I still find myself running out in a full group around the 45 minute mark (give or take).

 

The problem with running out of ammo with your primary is that the synoid can't sustain itself while you replenish ammo for the primary unfortunately x.x. Also, is the bug where mutation doesn't work something recent? I don't recall that being the case when I was testing out the synoid when it was freshly nerfed.

[UltimateSpinDash]

Just saw your other post btw. Whenever I do T4 it's an hour (that's just me though, not necessarily everyone) and whenever I do it with people I aim for 80 min, sometimes 100 depending on the party and the plan. If they want to camp, I can just grab mirage and we can go up to 3 hours lol.

 

IIRC (I'm not sure myself, it's just what I've seen people write on the forums) if you are solo less enemies show up. And yes, you are right, it's alot easier in a team. More abilities are used, you have CP, and nekros to help with ammo. Even with a maxed primed mutation I still find myself running out in a full group around the 45 minute mark (give or take).

 

The problem with running out of ammo with your primary is that the synoid can't sustain itself while you replenish ammo for the primary unfortunately x.x. Also, is the bug where mutation doesn't work something recent? I don't recall that being the case when I was testing out the synoid when it was freshly nerfed.

I never noticed that Ammo Mutations don't work when the weapon is holstered. It could be a bug, and I honestly hope it is.

 

Honestly though, for stuff beyond 50 minutes, you can't expect DE to balance anything. Not sure how you are doing one hours T4 Survs on a regular basis (even without camping, I would still need a dedicated team), you got my respect for that.

 

I know that Solo has less enemies, but I'm not sure if that fully applies to higher difficulties.

[Flowen231]

I never noticed that Ammo Mutations don't work when the weapon is holstered. It could be a bug, and I honestly hope it is.

 

Honestly though, for stuff beyond 50 minutes, you can't expect DE to balance anything. Not sure how you are doing one hours T4 Survs on a regular basis (even without camping, I would still need a dedicated team), you got my respect for that.

 

I know that Solo has less enemies, but I'm not sure if that fully applies to higher difficulties.

I never noticed either (I honestly don't think I've ever had this bug, even with the more recent aksomati, I always see the mutator picking up ammo while it's holstered, and it does work for me). Hopefully it is just a bug they plan to fix fast.

 

I know it's difficult to balance for 50+, it's hard to explain why, but I hate it how I have certain weapon combos that work for it, and now all of a sudden the synoid craps out way before that while other weapons do fine. As for how I do it: Solo I use Loki with irradiating disarm, enemies attacking each other plus my DPS is enough to mow them down for a while, the problem with that is that a single stray shot will kill you after a certain point, and loki is very reliant on energy so quick thinking is out of the question imho, so you have to travel in an awkward way to avoid getting hit sometimes.

 

Weapons I usually run with are Boltor P, SomaP, Paris P, Opticor, Amprex (only on team and with volt, I havent used volt since the "bug fix" though :/ I dont mind the fix but his drop in usefulness is kind of staggering), and Phage for primaries. The secondaries I take are Sanctis, Telos, Vaykor, Rakta, Synoid (not anymore D:), Hikou Prime, Despair (rarely since hikou is better, but these are more ammo efficient), Aksomati, Angstrum, and Brakk. My melees are usually Ichor, Tipedo, Cleavers, Scindo Prime, Galatine Prime (I WISH!), Dragon Nikana, Dakra Prime, and Fang Prime. Usually any combo of those works for me, unless shenanigans happens in the run.

[Fionntan]

Replies inside quote:

 

Yup. What happens with a normal ammo mutation is; The synoid runs dry, I swap to my boltor/amprex/soma, after a while, my synoid is full again and I swap back to it. After a certain point, I run dry on the synoid after killing about 7 enemies, and my primary runs dry as well, which leads to a point where neither gun has any ammo (this is usually around the 40ish mark in t4s).

 

To be expected with the normal version, so no surprise there; in fact this might be the stem on the complains from others saying " Ammo Mutation isn't enough" posts

 

With Primed ammo mutaton; Things go alot smoother, no crap right? You get more ammo back lol. The problem however is once again when your primary runs out of ammo. The synoid expands it's clip so quickly (some shots get wasted even before the laser extends to enemies) that it will out-waste what a primed ammo mutation brings to it.

 

I was going suggest to burst it but that's already mentioned and tackled. Although UltimateSpinDash's suggestion to make hit-scan weapon would be a nice buff to balance it out.

 

This isn't a problem with my marelok, my rakta, my telos, or my sanctis (which I still say needs a bit of a damage buff but that's for another topic.), and none of those require ammo mutation. Again, I dont want the broken synoid back, just something that I can use together with my primary that doesn't rely on the mutation band-aid (which doesn't hold up very well mind you.)

 

The idea of band-aids mods aren't my cup of tea either, is a poor way to address certain things and feels, so that I can relate. However, removing the need of mutation mod entirely isn't the way to go either; weapons need a downside.

 

Granted, I agree that ammo consumption needs to roll back around to the point that Prime Mutation makes it decently viable and Normal Mutation makes it decent. Or increase the magazine a tad.

 

Thank you for the feedback though.

 

As for folks argument on "Is a secondary", 

 

secondary weapon

secondary weapon  [′sek·ən‚der·ē ′wep·ən]

(ordnance)

A supporting or auxiliary weapon of a unit, vehicle, position, or aircraft; generally, it is a gun of smaller caliber than the primary weapon, and its purpose is to protect or supplement the fire of the primary weapon.

 

[size=4] purpose is to protect or supplement the fire of the primary weapon[/size]

 

[size=5] protect or supplement the fire of the primary weapon[/size]

 

[size=4]As of right now Synoid Gammacor cannot keep up with supplement demands of its primary; if I'm down it better hold up for as long as I am able to clear my surroundings for team cover. That's all I ask. [/size]

Edited May 9, 2015 by Fionntan

[fatpig84]

Personally, I felt an ROF of 10 will be a strong enough drawback.

15 was a little overkill.

 

Considering how beam weapons work this is a very bad thing.

And don't tell me "THE DPS IS THE SAME !".

 

Beam weapons have a forced damage calculation that only calculates their damage only AFTER 1 second of firing. So essentially you are wasting ammo, even on enemies that only need 1 bullet to kill, but you must wait for 1 second for the damage to register.

 

So it is not the same as the Wraith Twin Vipers or Dex Furis that deals individual damage per bullet.

Edited May 9, 2015 by fatpig84

[DSpite]

Hey! Secondaries are weapons, too! Just because it belongs in a different slot doesn't mean it has to suck up ammo! Some of us use these as primaries while carrying a heavy weapon in our main slot.

 

Also, this is a really funny joke. We complain about ammo supply and you literally give a gun that has 12 seconds of ammo. Bravo.

 

No I'm complaining that you ignore the fact that you also have a Primary weapon, that your secondary can do JUST FINE only putting out 20K DPS rather then 40K, and instead having a some utility mods to deal with ammo, and the fact that your so called "12 seconds of fire" are enough to put down 20 Heavy Gunners with short bursts and aiming

 

This expectation of "one gun to rule them all" is what's screwing up the game. You can alternate between weapons, and ammo automatically refills for the one you put away. Also fact, is that if BOTH guns are low on ammo, then an Ammo Restore refills BOTH guns, rather then "waste" pulses because one is already full.

 

By the asinine mechanics on this thread, all guns should function so well that we should not need to carry a Primary and a Secondary, and just walk around with a single "kill everything gun for as long as I need to go into T4 with", and I'm the one with bad logic.

[Flowen231]

No I'm complaining that you ignore the fact that you also have a Primary weapon, that your secondary can do JUST FINE only putting out 20K DPS rather then 40K, and instead having a some utility mods to deal with ammo, and the fact that your so called "12 seconds of fire" are enough to put down 20 Heavy Gunners with short bursts and aiming

Sure, even a heavily forma'd lato can kill 20 level 1 heavy gunners, but after the 30 minute mark in a t4s, the synoid can barely kill a bombard with a single clip. And firing the synoid in short bursts is a waste of ammo because of the laser's mechanics.

 

This expectation of "one gun to rule them all" is what's screwing up the game. You can alternate between weapons, and ammo automatically refills for the one you put away. Also fact, is that if BOTH guns are low on ammo, then an Ammo Restore refills BOTH guns, rather then "waste" pulses because one is already full.

I have been repeatedly saying that I would like the synoid to be usable in conjunction with a primary and not have it be an overpowered stand alone weapon, and in the state that it is now, it simply does not work with that even with a mutation. The way the synoid works now, once your primary is out of ammo, the synoid only has 12.5 seconds of being fired before it runs completely dry, during which you simply will not be able to refill your primary anywhere near a desirable amount. And the same happens in reverse, when the synoid runs out and you swap to your primary, you have to collect 600 bullets to fully restock it, and with how fast it eats ammo, your primary simply will not hold out while you amass the ammo back.

 

Also, ammo restores are a crutch, plain and simple. They reduce gameplay efficiency, the only exception where they are useful is during a defense, or a campy survival where enemies die right in front of you and drop loads of ammo nearby. The fact that a weapon would need you to use these at all is a sign that DE dun goofed at some point while designing (or in this case reworking) that weapon.

Edited May 10, 2015 by Flowen231

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

I use volt prime with my 7 forma syn GAM and literally never run out of ammo unless I'm stagnant and do not move at all during the mission

If you don't have a rank 10 primed heated charge AND a rank 10 Primed Pistol Ammo Mutation AND at least 6 formas on this gun then yes it will suck

But at max potential it is still better than 90% of secondaries and is equal to all the other "best" secondaries

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Sure, even a heavily forma'd lato can kill 20 level 1 heavy gunners, but after the 30 minute mark in a t4s, the synoid can barely kill a bombard with a single clip. And firing the synoid in short bursts is a waste of ammo because of the laser's mechanics.

I have been repeatedly saying that I would like the synoid to be usable in conjunction with a primary and not have it be an overpowered stand alone weapon, and in the state that it is now, it simply does not work with that even with a mutation. The way the synoid works now, once your primary is out of ammo, the synoid only has 12.5 seconds of being fired before it runs completely dry, during which you simply will not be able to refill your primary anywhere near a desirable amount. And the same happens in reverse, when the synoid runs out and you swap to your primary, you have to collect 600 bullets to fully restock it, and with how fast it eats ammo, your primary simply will not hold out while you amass the ammo back.

Also, ammo restores are a crutch, plain and simple. They reduce gameplay effecience, the only exception where they are useful is during a defense, or a campy survival where enemies die right in front of you and drop loads of ammo nearby. The fact that a weapon would need you to use these at all is a sign that DE dun goofed at some point while designing (or in this case) that weapon.

I mean idk what to say, except that you're very wrong IMO

Do you hold the trigger down?

The gun needs to be used in Bursts and you can't hold down even when moving between targets as the travel time will eat ammo

I just see so many people (not saying you) that state syn GAM isn't good anymore yet they only use 2-3 formas

I also laugh when they say it is not good but don't have rank 10 primed pistol mutation and heated charge

[(PSN)Snowbluff]

 

Also, ammo restores are a crutch, plain and simple. They reduce gameplay effecience, the only exception where they are useful is during a defense, or a campy survival where enemies die right in front of you and drop loads of ammo nearby. The fact that a weapon would need you to use these at all is a sign that DE dun goofed at some point while designing (or in this case) that weapon.

This. These shouldn't ever be expected from regular play.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

This is true for any weapon, in any game. Damage*firerate=DPS.

Burst weapons Fire-rate is not indicative of DPS.

Castanas and AkBronco Prime have fire-rate that are highly disproportionate to magazine size. (Not quite as simple as Damage * fire-rate = DPS)

Melee in Warframe, attack speed (fire-rate) is based on weapon class animation speed and not a measure of attack speed per second.(Even varies between stances and Quick-melee)

[R34LM]

This is a common misconception that I am seeing: it still does the same damage and the same dps; however, either can be lower for one reason: it's ammo consumption. Because it now chokes out more ammo, people need to put in pistol ammutation to make it last longer, and the most likely candidate for replacement is a dps mod like Gunslinger or Anemic Agility. If not that, it is some other damage mod, because all builds I saw for the synoid pre nerf were damage mods and dps mods, with no quality of life mods that could be replaced.

 

So yes, depending on how you handled the change, the damage or dps may be lower. Otherwise, it's the same.

Edited May 10, 2015 by R34LM

[Flowen231]

I mean idk what to say, except that you're very wrong IMO

Do you hold the trigger down?

The gun needs to be used in Bursts and you can't hold down even when moving between targets as the travel time will eat ammo

I just see so many people (not saying you) that state syn GAM isn't good anymore yet they only use 2-3 formas

I also laugh when they say it is not good but don't have rank 10 primed pistol mutation and heated charge

I hold the trigger down as long as there are enemies to kill within range. As stated before, the beam from the synoid is not hitscan, and wastes ammo while it's extending.

 

I know what you mean, not everyone pours tons of forma into something. I had 6 on mine before the nerf, and after the nerf and some testing, I put a 7th one on to fit primed pistol mutation on.