Kogake Should Be Removed From Pvp

[Pythadragon]

So...  let me make sure I understand some things about opinions on this thread...

 

Knockdown attack and then finisher (whether by rifle, explosive, or melee finisher) is considered 'bad form.'  Using Mag's pull, Frost's Freeze, Nyx's Mind Control, and any other power that performs a momentary stun, and then finishing them while they're staggered or vulnerable is also considered 'bad form'?

 

Basically, anything that CC's opponents and then takes them down is bad?

 

Two things you're missing:

1. Kogake costs 0 energy

2. Kogake is autoaimed within 5 meters due to martial magnetism.

[Nighttide77]

Two things you're missing:

1. Kogake costs 0 energy

2. Kogake is autoaimed within 5 meters due to martial magnetism.

Eh...don't think I'm missing those factors because the essence of the issue is the same: CC'ing an opponent and then finishing them.

[rockscl]

Eh...don't think I'm missing those factors because the essence of the issue is the same: CC'ing an opponent and then finishing them.

 

kogake is stun, aimbot, and finisher, the rest of the combos you are suggesting imply player`s preparation and input other than smashing E with your elbow, stop trying to compare that aimbotted thingy with combos reliant on energy and aiming

Edited May 11, 2015 by rockscl

[Feyangol]

Lol i do that so much nowadays people always fall for it (works with rhino charge and slash dash too)

 

^This.  Get in a couple shots and when they go in for the knockdown, start swinging with melee of choice.  Dex dakra wreck kogake users, dual raza work pretty well too.  Or just use bo/bo prime, if you ever get knocked down by a kogake user while running bo prime rest assured it was all your fault.

Don't get me wrong, I still want that they nerf it, because it is the last melee which is viable as a primary/main weapon. Melee kills in general aren't hard to get, you don't need aim, you just have to press spam the button E ...

 

And Excal is really good with this tactic, because you can use slash dash in close corners and make it nearly impossible to dodge an attack. Rhinos charge is some kind of hard to hit, but he is more tanky than excal and the attack is more devastating if it hits, so I think it's fair.

 

I consider outdpsing someone as bad style - it is more dangerous than an outplay (shooting while running away/not being hit) and yeah it is boring to spam E by yourself. I accept it as a method to deal with kogake users, but I refuse to use this method.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Feyangol

[H0Tfire]

Sometimes pictures help, so here's a video!

 

[Nighttide77]

kogake is stun, aimbot, and finisher, the rest of the combos you are suggesting imply player`s preparation and input other than smashing E with your elbow, stop trying to compare that aimbotted thingy with combos reliant on energy and aiming

 

I'm pretty sure if you activate a slam attack close enough to a target that it aimbots, too.  I've seen it happen with my gram.

[Pythadragon]

I'm pretty sure if you activate a slam attack close enough to a target that it aimbots, too.  I've seen it happen with my gram.

 

Right, but that requires you to jump and leaves you vulnerable after you hit the ground due to being locked into the animation. Thus it is a high risk-high reward attack.

 

Kogake slide attack has no downside.

[Nighttide77]

Sometimes pictures help, so here's a video!

 

 

Wow...that was a really good video.  The last half of it describes Warframe so much.

 

 

Right, but that requires you to jump and leaves you vulnerable after you hit the ground due to being locked into the animation. Thus it is a high risk-high reward attack.

 

Kogake slide attack has no downside.

 

I would argue that the vulnerable time on the slam attack of both Furax and Gram are not that bad, but I do agree that the slide attack of kogake does have less time of vulnerability.  Something about the Gram also seems to freak opponents out.  It's like when I start swinging it, they start panicking and their accuracy goes down the hole.

 

Would decreasing the attack speed of the kogake's slide attack make it more balanced?

 

Last night, I played against this n00b-y Volt with only Kogake, and they...were really bad, lol.  They just kept slide attacking, like most n00bs, but I didn't have nearly as much of a problem against them.  I just kept a proper distance, and shot them.  Angstrum really shined, lol.

[Pythadragon]

Would decreasing the attack speed of the kogake's slide attack make it more balanced?

 

Last night, I played against this n00b-y Volt with only Kogake, and they...were really bad, lol.  They just kept slide attacking, like most n00bs, but I didn't have nearly as much of a problem against them.  I just kept a proper distance, and shot them.  Angstrum really shined, lol.

 

You could always.... remove the knockdown from the slide attack, thus making the weapon act the same as every other melee slide attack.

 

Or downgrade it to a stagger rather than a knockdown. Or a slow.

 

Attack speed won't make a lick of difference due to martial magnetism making all melee auto hit within 5 meters.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Nighttide77]

You could always.... remove the knockdown from the slide attack, thus making the weapon act the same as every other melee slide attack.

 

Or downgrade it to a stagger rather than a knockdown. Or a slow.

 

Attack speed won't make a lick of difference due to martial magnetism making all melee auto hit within 5 meters.

 

>_> wouldn't stagger make no difference to a slide attack spammer?  Instead of being stun-locked by knockdown, a player would be stun-locked by stagger...

 

Decreasing the slide attack speed of Kogake to the same as a slam attack from Furax or Gram would make slide attacks no more attractive than a slam attack, thus normalizing a slide attack to other CC attacks.  As well, slide attacking with Kogake at a decreased speed would allow for kogake users to be as vulnerable during slide attack as any other player using a slam attack.

 

Kogake honestly needs to maintain some sort of benefit to its slide attack to make it different from other melee.  Otherwise, everyone might as well just be using the same sword with no difference in damage and such.

[rockscl]

I'm pretty sure if you activate a slam attack close enough to a target that it aimbots, too.  I've seen it happen with my gram.

 

you need energy and aiming to perform the combos that you are trying to put as a par to cheapgake, i dont understand why you insist in comparing apples with pears

 

 

 

Last night, I played against this n00b-y Volt with only Kogake, and they...were really bad, lol.  They just kept slide attacking, like most n00bs, but I didn't have nearly as much of a problem against them.  I just kept a proper distance, and shot them.  Angstrum really shined, lol.

 

personal challenges arent arguments, how can i know how bad he was and how good are you? clearly that will never work as some sort of evidence for weapon balance

Edited May 12, 2015 by rockscl

[Aggh]

 

you need energy and aiming to perform the combos that you are trying to put as a par to cheapgake, i dont understand why you insist in comparing apples with pears

 

 

 

personal challenges arent arguments, how can i know how bad he was and how good are you? clearly that will never work as some sort of evidence for weapon balance

 

Lol, the amount of aim required to land a slam attack is minimal.

 

Also, you keep on going on and on about martial magnetism being an advantage with kogake, but it's really not when you're against multiple opponents.  It'll keep on dragging you towards the closest opponent and doesn't really allow you to pick your targets properly.  It's only really nice for quickly closing the distance for killing someone with quick melee.

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I still want that they nerf it, because it is the last melee which is viable as a primary/main weapon. Melee kills in general aren't hard to get, you don't need aim, you just have to press spam the button E ...

 

And Excal is really good with this tactic, because you can use slash dash in close corners and make it nearly impossible to dodge an attack. Rhinos charge is some kind of hard to hit, but he is more tanky than excal and the attack is more devastating if it hits, so I think it's fair.

 

I consider outdpsing someone as bad style - it is more dangerous than an outplay (shooting while running away/not being hit) and yeah it is boring to spam E by yourself. I accept it as a method to deal with kogake users, but I refuse to use this method.

Rhino charge is mind numbingly easy to land on someone coming in for a knockdown with kogake.  Just look at them and press one as they're coming in for the slide attack.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Aggh

[rockscl]

Lol, the amount of aim required to land a slam attack is minimal.

 

Also, you keep on going on and on about martial magnetism being an advantage with kogake, but it's really not when you're against multiple opponents.  It'll keep on dragging you towards the closest opponent and doesn't really allow you to pick your targets properly.  It's only really nice for quickly closing the distance for killing someone with quick melee.

 

 

its about pull, and the rest of CC abilities that chained with shots allow for CC to kill combos, putting slam attacks in the way is just a noisy attempt to make it all part of the same familiy so they all get the same charge of blame, when the only pointed offender here is kogake´s spinning attack, theres absolutelly no one targeting slam attacks as a source of unbalance, so theres no point in keep trying to put those pears in this apple´s sack

 

i dont think that martial magnetism is a disadvantage for not allowing you to pick between targets, first, because that rarely happens given the long distances traveled per second, and second, because you either kill one or kill the other, if you were half dead already, bad positioned, or under energized, the result is that one of them would kill you anyway if the match was even in skill,  there isnt any melee weapon that gets rid of such numeric disadvantage, with or without martial mag, gram did it if you stood next to it, but tempo royale will be removed, also, is there any aimbot in the market that allows you to pick targets? thats the deal with aimbots, he picks a target and you smash the button, and this is supposed to be a magnet, not an aimbot

Edited May 12, 2015 by rockscl

[Feyangol]

[...]

Rhino charge is mind numbingly easy to land on someone coming in for a knockdown with kogake.  Just look at them and press one as they're coming in for the slide attack.

I don't know how it is with kogake, because I played only a few games with it, rekt everyone and never wanted to use it again, but I never had a problem to dodge a rhino charge with my beloved bo p even if I was in a corner ... Well, maybe it is something different with kogake.

[(XBOX)CFE Vulari]

To remove a weapons from the game because we are too lazy to find a response seems silly. I can go head to head against any kokage user and win nine times out of ten. I've seen players use no stance or wep aside from the kokage and beat me using mine. The PvP grind is to find responses to these things. I cannot ground pound someone who flips up and slides away. Mobility and getting your par-core down is a huge factor as well as learning the maps. As weapons get added, and gametypes come into play the kokage will likely be outshone by a number of other weapons. Having a fist style weapon is awesome and makes great clips. Don't rid the game of something you can acquire at a low rank, and kiop high ranked players. That's its point.

I feel some old school players learning their grind doesn't count for much with this new PvP and are not willing to learn. Step outside the box, and remember this game will only get better. 20nodes vrs 300 is going to make the new PvP even more enticing, so now I see it's value!

Contact me if you want someone to run with! These are a few clips of my clannies that I threw together real quick to show us destroying using the kokage. Notice those who have recover mods and those who do not. Also new chroma power getting abused lol. Enjoy.

[Aggh]

I don't know how it is with kogake, because I played only a few games with it, rekt everyone and never wanted to use it again, but I never had a problem to dodge a rhino charge with my beloved bo p even if I was in a corner ... Well, maybe it is something different with kogake.

The difference is that kogake's slide attack requires you to literally throw yourself at your target.  That's easy prey for a rhino charge since it provides an easy predictable target for a charge.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Aggh

[InoxMaximus]

it's the netcode. you get hit, but you don't see that you been hit

[rockscl]

The difference is that kogake's slide attack requires you to literally throw yourself at your target.  That's easy prey for a rhino charge since it provides an easy predictable target for a charge.

 

every other melee weapon requires the same thing, so how does this argument works to validate this stun locking cheesy toy, every game has moved out from stun locks, or at least the good ones, that talks bad by itself

[Nighttide77]

every other melee weapon requires the same thing, so how does this argument works to validate this stun locking cheesy toy, every game has moved out from stun locks, or at least the good ones, that talks bad by itself

Soz... I tried to spam kogake with the recent update...and got rocked... Maybe there was a silent nerf?

[rockscl]

Soz... I tried to spam kogake with the recent update...and got rocked... Maybe there was a silent nerf?

are you sure that you werent attacking a Valkyr? 

 

 

kogake

Impact 24.5 <---

Puncture 5.3

Slash 5.2

[Fusenuts]

I like the new change to it. Martial Magnetism requires you to have your melee weapon out so it triggers, this slows down Kogake attack speed, depending on stance i believe. I find this more fair than my old tactic of dropkick finisher and shoot wildly if i need to. I believe this was a good step in the right direction.

[Nighttide77]

are you sure that you werent attacking a Valkyr? 

 

 

kogake

Impact

24.5 <---

Puncture

5.3

Slash

5.2

>_> I'm pretty sure...

[dmcAxle]

Is Sure Footed  even working? 60% and I didn't resist a single knockdown out of 5 play sessions and a S#&$ ton of jump attack knockdowns. 

Edited May 13, 2015 by dmcAxle

[Aggh]

every other melee weapon requires the same thing, so how does this argument works to validate this stun locking cheesy toy, every game has moved out from stun locks, or at least the good ones, that talks bad by itself

Not in a straight line, no.  Most other melee attacks have much more varied movement in their slide attacks, not to mention more forward momentum.  Also, read the post you're responding to, I said nothing about that validating kogake's knockdown, only that it makes it easy to land rhino charge.

[(XBOX)YoAlaskaDude]

Is Sure Footed  even working? 60% and I didn't resist a single knockdown out of 5 play sessions and a S#&$ ton of jump attack knockdowns. 

I don't think it does. I have it equiped also and I always still get knocked down. DE needs to look into that.