Proposed Starchart Changes [Megathread]

[Omni_Omega]

As of what I have heard so far, reducing player choice is an immediate turn away from me.

I look forward to hearing more details on this topic, preferably BEFORE it is implemented.

[-Ropefish-]

seems like a huge cluster f*** waiting to happen...

[(PSN)WiiConquered]

The reality of the situation is, you get the play the same tileset under a different node-name with the same gametype multiple times, and that's it. It's only an illusion of variety.

The only thing this allows is the fragment the playerbase completely.

 

Nodes are dead. Desolated. Nobody touches them. Zero. Nada. Players trying to advance can't do crap, because their frame is not good enough to solo, and there is nobody to team with, unless we are talking about 30minute wait times at BEST.

 

Shrinking the starchart is needed. No other way around it.

Hense my solution suggestion, which changes this and removes two fifths of the total number of nodes and half the starchart nodes.

Unlocking nodes where there is no one on is a pain. Nothing else.

 

Being made to "unlock" places and then calling it "progression" is wrong. This is no different from having to make new characters in Guild Wars 2 visit EVERY location with EVERY character to get some unlocks. It's fun the first time, slightly tolerable the second, and it's mind numbing annoying the third time, but at least there is ALWAYS players around. Having one or two nodes to unlock and them being Mobile Defense or Survival and having to do it solo? It's not "fun" or "progression".

 

I have never met anyone saying "but I really like to run mission X on tileset Y". These would be a minority anyway, and having a minority dictate a mechanic that basically slows the rest of the player base actually teaming up, is NOT a valid reason to keep that many nodes.

 

Also, all DE would have to do for "mission and tileset variety" is to allow other types of missions to pop us as another layer like they do now with Alerts and Syndicate missions on normal modes where clicking the node show ALL available missions on that node.

Perhaps that's how you feel, but for me if there were no place to get to I wouldn't have played this game for more than a couple of hours. There were lots of annoying, tedious missions that kept repeating on the same tile, but this suggestion aims to cut them out.

And I do have preferred mission/tileset combinations: Mobile Defense on Sedna or Ceres, Survival on any Grineer ship tileset or Jupiter, Spy on the ice outpost tilesets, Exterminate in the Void, and Hive over any other Sabotage type mission. You may consider me in the minority, but the majority cares mainly for efficiency and rewards, a major reason why they don't have favorite missions.

Your latter suggestion doesn't actually reduce the number of nodes below what I suggested.

Interesting how many players fail to see that said variety is only an illusion. As said before it's mostly copypasta and I have a hard time bringing friends into this game because no wants to crunch through all those nodes to get somewhere.

 

And isn't the most part of the players running void or standard farm missions anyway? Playing about 3-4 nodes at all?

 

The only thing where I see the S#&$storm coming is that said farmers can't farm anymore with the efficiency they used to have because of the timed and random nature of the new nodes. But I bet they can farm (because there will always be a loot cave) but they will have to adapt to a new spot like every week or so... really devastating.

 

For all not so hardcore members of the Tenno I think the new chart will make things faster, cleaner and more accessible with a bit of reason for everyday play.

I don't play farming nodes and don't enjoy them. I find the death of guaranteed farming nodes a good thing, because then players will actually branch out and find missions they enjoy. But when they do, they're going to want to access them as they wish, and with the suggestion as it's been proposed that can't happen.

[CelticMoss]

They say being bought did nothing to change warframe but ever since that day the game became more and more a grind fest.

[Spindle99]

This has to be one of the worst changes to ever be even PROPOSED to the game. Why would it even seem like a good idea?

 

This thread isn't a good idea, you know you're going to get warnings and possibly banned for talking like this.

 

Be careful how you word what you're saying.

[Lynxh]

They say being bought did nothing to change warframe but ever since that day the game became more and more a grind fest.

 

And yet that still remains the case, however as much you might want to shift blame :/.  

 

Just for the record, I'm not a fan of the mentioned changes either. I'm all for bringing down the node number. But making it around 20 with added RNG doesn't sit right with me at all.

 

I do get where they are coming from though, but I'm a little worried about how many people will actually be able to adapt/accept this change, of our current playerbase. It's a step in the right direction imo, but perhaps a wee bit to rigorous.

Edited May 8, 2015 by Lynxh

[XenosInfinity]

The concept of not being able to pick the mission type you're going into is frankly horrific. I cannot stand Interception unless I'm specifically looking for syndicate standing. I do not want to play Excavation at random, I need to bring Frost or another defensive frame to hold out for a reasonable amount of time. I don't want to go into a mission not knowing what's about to happen.

 

The whole point of having multiple frames with varying powersets is that we can alter our loadout according to what we're likely to face. If my hapless Loki finds himself in the middle of an Excavation, he's going to violently explode. Similarly, if my Ember gets dropped into a Survival on anything past Phobos, I'm probably going to have a bad time.

 

I've never played a game where you didn't have any opportunity at all to prepare for a mission's specific challenges. I'm not entirely sure I've even encountered one. There might be a reason for that.

[Apex_Nemachode]

To be honest, I absolutely LOVED the old star chart. I like the planet visuals but what would be better if the nodes were connected to each other so you know what to do in what order.

 

This is something I want back, but the new blue node rectangles can stay. Just a pathway connected to nodes would be appreciated. 

 

EDIT: Ignore the red circle, I just googled a random star chart of Warframe's past. Not my picture.

Edited May 8, 2015 by BLACKRIDERDEATH

[Raithon07]

I intrupreted Steves words like this : " Too many nodes so we fix it with Time based RNG."

 

So yeah. im against this until more clarification comes. sorry DE but you guys have a horrible track record with implementing RNG. admit it. own it and freaking just give us what we want in the star chart and maybe more people will spend money on the game. this is why i basically quit as a money spending player and refuse to buy any more plat until RNG is lessened from the development process. Yes Grind= necessary  but Excess grind = nightmare. FREAKING COHERENTLY CLARIFY INSTEAD OF TROLLING. kthanks //endrandt :D

[Yezzik]

I don't like the idea of not being able to farm for something specific--be it resources, boss drops, Codex scans, Synthesis targets, Warframe parts, Prime parts or anything else--because it's not "the right day" for that thing to be available.

 

Given how the game works right now, what I've seen of these proposed changes feels as if the developers decided to add another few layers of RNG to the game in order to slow down player progression, this time concerning the very missions themselves.

[(PSN)Sh0cKtEchxX]

im all for change but the removal of us being able to choose what kind of mission? who in their right mind thought we would be ok w that 

[DSMK2]

I made my thoughts on this when it first got mentioned a while back: My Thoughts

 

---

 

I agree that removing player choice in mission types will bring players closer together, and has a chance of killing "ghost towns" of nodes; but doing so severely hurts solo players who'd want to play specific game modes i.e. challenging ourselves with spy missions, or a casual death waltz though exterminate.

 

At this rate, I'd be happy with Warframe having an offline single player half where I can do as I please, with multiplayer having sporadic but highly rewarding missions...

[tocorro]

Restricting my choices even further ? .... Nope, don't like that idea.

Condensing 300 nodes into 20 means all dark sectors, archwing and boss missions will be RNG based ?

If so then this will only add another layer of RNG into the game.

DE's promise was : Year of quality and also to relieve us of too much RNG.

 

Let's say You want a T4 Sab key and they only drop on specific Interception missions, for the sake of discussion let's say that they are on 2 nodes.

Now If daily You will get 20 nodes with RNG based mission types (boss, dark sector, archwing included) then please enlighten me aproximately how long will You need to wait to get a chance to play an Interception mission that could yield You a T4 sab key ?

Even if rewards will be buffed, how slim is the chance for player getting what he wants ?

 

Really eager to hear some more from DE.

:) 

Edited May 8, 2015 by tocorro

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Haha, OOOOHHHHH MAN. I don't even know where to begin with this idea. It's that bad. Removing player choice/action is NEVER a good idea. Look at QTEs, off hand, I can't think of anything more hated than "press x to not die!". This is that, only instead of "pressing x to not die!", you're removing player input by making them wait for the mission they want to play pop up.

 

All in all, this just feels like it's a classic DE idea. It has a cool snappy phrase, might even be a good idea (reducing nodes/map clutter), but is taken WAY too far, then, of course, has a dash of RNG tossed in.

 

DE, if there's anything you can learn from this, it's stop using RNG to do EVERYTHING.

Edited May 8, 2015 by KvotheTheArcane1

[thewikdone]

All i get from this is one thing and one thing only CONTENT DENIAL! Just imagine needing one prime part to finish something but when they add this you will have to wait for the rng to roll the mission type and then the rng for the drop. They say you can craft mission keys or some such .....let me guess only will take 12 hours to craft it or HEY! rush it with plat. Seems like a absolutely terrible idea to me.

[cosborne1432]

Add me to the list of people very skeptical about the proposed star chart changes.  Being able to choose the enemy faction, enemy level, and mission type is something I greatly prize.  I really think a better solution would be to prune back the star chart so that each planet has one node of each mission type, and add better rewards to star chart missions (perhaps a limited selection of prime parts, or something unique like the Specter blueprints awarded for rescue missions).

[Kruglov]

The only way this will work is if it functions like the "Endgame" areas in Torchlight, Path of Exile, and Diablo 3.

Where you basically get to choose a faction, a level of difficulty, a tileset, and mutations that make it even harder for the advantage of getting extra loot.

 

Like being able to make a europa ice planet map, craft it, add stuff that swaps its faction to Infested, craft it, add more stuff that alters the level of enemies, craft, and then more things to make it into like Nightmare Mode style stuff but with way more drops and rewards.

 

That sort of thing works very well in Dungeon Crawlers.

And despite what some of the deluded fanbase here might think, Warframe IS a dungeon crawler. It just happens to be one with an extremely different control scheme and camera system.

[Rexlars]

I really think a better solution would be to prune back the star chart so that each planet has one node of each mission type, and add better rewards to star chart missions (perhaps a limited selection of prime parts, or something unique like the Specter blueprints awarded for rescue missions).

 

I've said the same thing & if there was any sort of compromise, this would be it. 

[Sorez]

I just dont want this to be basically alerts 2.0

[CelticMoss]

Went over it again all i have to say is.

 

https://youtu.be/-NZidTnSoLI?t=1m31s

Edited May 8, 2015 by SarahApple

[Feallike]

Does it even matter if the resources dropped are not based on planets but missions/enemies? Then it will just bring the playerbase closer together.

[SlashD17]

Playing a missions involves, you choosing the type and the area you want to play it. It SHOULD remain as a player choice, not RNG.

Killing the diversity of the game isnt gonna improve it anyway possible. Okay we got 300 nodes, okay some are ghost towns, some arent, but that is bound to happen.

I cant say i have a specific place to play , im more like a random guy that ventures into the starchart depending on his mood, but taking that away, the game will become boring ill have to keep quitting missions till the one i want shows up? No thank you.

[egregiousRac]

The only way this will work is if it functions like the "Endgame" areas in Torchlight, Path of Exile, and Diablo 3.

Where you basically get to choose a faction, a level of difficulty, a tileset, and mutations that make it even harder for the advantage of getting extra loot.

 

Like being able to make a europa ice planet map, craft it, add stuff that swaps its faction to Infested, craft it, add more stuff that alters the level of enemies, craft, and then more things to make it into like Nightmare Mode style stuff but with way more drops and rewards.

 

That sort of thing works very well in Dungeon Crawlers.

And despite what some of the deluded fanbase here might think, Warframe IS a dungeon crawler. It just happens to be one with an extremely different control scheme and camera system.

 

This is exactly how key crafting sounded to me when Steve mentioned it. The current idea appears to be twentyish alert-like rotating missions, and then craftable missions if you want to do something specific or have a challenge.

 

I am perfectly okay with this.

[Erelas]

Currently the only qualms I have as an "end-game" player is that the StarChart is annoying to use in the HUD.  Rotating to get to the right planet is confusing and takes a lot more time.  Clicking once while looking at the galaxy map was much more user friendly.

1)  Because the planets are all the same size and have very little variance at all.  Most of these planets are not good depictions and are therefore hard to pick out, believe it or not, it's much easier to memorize the size, colour, texture, and shape of a planetoid rather than looking for the print name.

2)  As the layout stands, it doesn't really make sense.  What we had before was an ACTUAL star chart of our galaxy, now we have a very simplistic and hodge-podge rendition of accessible planets/moons/void spots.

 

Honestly, if my Tenno does his meditative kneeling pose to look at the star chart I'd like to see our galaxy and be able to use that 3rd grade astronomy class again.  For me and others that was really cool seeing our galaxy and picking out the planets, they were distinct, and have proportionate sizes to a better degree, it also made it feel more real time and space-like seeing it as a whole while sitting in the midst of these "heavenly bodies" orbiting around.

As for the topic of new players trying to make their way across the map.  I don't see why we can't have a solution through the community of Tenno that could help out new players unlock these by providing incentive for the "old" players.  Tenno helping tenno.  Easier than trying to make a complicated new system in the star chart.

 

(In the opening trailer there are an Ash, Frost, and Nyx helping the Excaliber, think of it that way, the new player is the Exaliber and the old ones come in to help out, just provide an incentive for revisitation of these old spots with the new players)

Edited May 9, 2015 by Erelas

[7grims]

This has to be one of the worst changes to ever be even PROPOSED to the game. Why would it even seem like a good idea?

 

Because ppl demanded it many time, ever since a long time ago.

We have too much nodes, that makes all people spread, making allot of planets and nodes completely empty, and ghost towns.

 

But, going from 100 or 200 nodes, to 20, is kinda of a classic DE move, they exaggerate and do things on extremes, hence their name :P

Just hope this is the truly good rework we all want it to be.

Edited May 9, 2015 by 7grims