Blind Behaviors

[SuperheroJack]

-You would remember where your allies were

-You'd remember that they fire in bursts and tenno usually go full auto

Wow so you mean they are blinded and disoriented but they also have ninja ability bring themselves together and remember where their allies are and concentrate on burst and auto fire ! Also ignoring the fact that not all tenno use full auto ! I think you are replying just for the sake of argument and proving a point that's absurd ! 

 

They're blind, not deaf. Enemy guns sound different.

 

Blinds should be separate from stuns. Open to finishers is another matter entirely; you don't have to be paralyzed for it.

And for your point of blind and stun - here's is what Radial Blind is -"

• Affected enemies are initially stunned and have smoke pouring out of their head or similar body part for the duration."

  So enemies are stunned too when hit by Radial Blind and hence disoriented as when they come out of that stun period they see nothing , they are blinded ! My advice , know what you are talking about before you reply !

[H3dsh0t]

That excal buff!

 

 

What? Why? 

 

Too much overlap with Chaos and irradiating disarm is my guess.

 

Edit: Damn you glen, this post was so awesome I forgot I was loading into a mission and died to stalker while replying lol

Edited May 9, 2015 by H3dsh0t

[Kaotyke]

YEAH!! EXCALIBUFF!!!!

[[DE]Glen]

Nice! One question, though: Will they still shoot at you when your weapon is silenced?

 

I didn't have time to test but I hope not -- you'll have to wait and see! Personally I'm thinking blind + close distance and melee will be my strategy of choice.

[[DE]Glen]

sounds great. disappoint that they won't be able to attack each other randomly, but this sounds pretty good as it stands.

 

It's possible -- but my "15 minute distraction" already went way, way over budget. I was also thinking similar improvements could be made for invisible players.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

Firstly great to see improvement on AI, just a major nitpick.

They really should not be firing at all for the same reasons as they dont throw grenades, "safety first".

While the game knows friendly fire isn't possible the setting itself (thus the units) would not know that, thus if they fired in any direction they could potentially be shooting and harming allies. Thus it would be a rare occurance for the enemies to actually fire at any sounds outside of simply just being confused.

This is especially true given that tenno will often use the same weapons as the blinded individuals allies.

The 'safety first' comment was more as a joke, I'm sure.

Glen's new system probably broke the grenade spam into ridiculous grenade spam, and so just disabled them to make it easier.

Of course, we'd need an official word on that, but considering that they are firing without regard for allies but won't throw grenades for 'safety reasons', I don't think Glen would put a major contradiction like that in a serious manner.

Or I could be wrong, and Glen combined some ideas and now we have this contradictory addition.

[[DE]Glen]

Question : Will they still be subject to the 4x stealth damage multiplier? And is the multiplier gone when they're shooting at what they think to be the Tenno(judging from the sounds they hear)?

 

No, but I am wondering if the design guys would be open to the idea of the finishers being possible on blinded enemies.

[[DE]Glen]

I think they should at least have their accuracy decreased while blinded.

 

This *should* be the case -- I spent a bit of time trying to make them 'really' confused but ran into some client-server walls and then ran out of time. It may need more polish; we'll have to see.

So, while we're discussing radial blind, these changes will affect all abilities with blinding if I have understood it correctly?

 

Yes -- these are improvements to the AI behaviors not the abilities.

[[DE]Glen]

2: Could you expand this to capture targets?  Back when I was using Excal, I would attempt to keep them from running me into a room full of angry gun wielding Tenno haters only to have the target keep running away.  At full speed.  While shooting. 

 

Yes -- this was particularly annoying for me because I can't copter on gamepad. It should just work but I will double check today if I can.

[CTanGod]

This *should* be the case -- I spent a bit of time trying to make them 'really' confused but ran into some client-server walls and then ran out of time. It may need more polish; we'll have to see.

 

Yes -- these are improvements to the AI behaviors not the abilities.

 

Please do not implement these since they would make Blind utterly pointless. I mean, think of the new players, they won't know that silenced weapons and melee attacks won't make them shoot and thus they'll think the ability does absolutely nothing.

 

Please don't do this, you'll simply kill the Blind Status. Instead make enemies respond to normal blind as they would from Radiant Finish Blind, minus the finisher prompts.

[Laisha]

How exactly would that work for something like penta?

 

Would it be where the explosion is, where the player was when it was deployed, or where the player is when it explodes?

Edited May 9, 2015 by Laisha

[bluntpuffer]

This is awesome, maybe some violent shouts could be added to blinded mobs like 'tenno skoom'.

I know i'd be screaming that if i were to be blinded :p.

[sappinmahsentry]

The enemies hearing you doesn't bother me, if enemies are blinded my Tonkor doesn't need reload speed.

[(PSN)IIIDevoidIII]

How exactly would that work for something like penta?

 

Would it be where the explosion is, where the player was when it was deployed, or where the player is when it explodes?

The Penta, and I think all explosive weapons, are silent.

[ARavenousPanda]

i think you are all blowing this well out of proportion. Enemies will shoot eachother, because they are making noise and when panicked (which you would be if a ninja blinded you) you start to care more about surviving than accidentally shooting your friend. Especially if it is your only chance of survival.

I love the changes. They feel real.

[ARavenousPanda]

The Penta, and I think all explosive weapons, are silent.

ogris is no longer silent, i could have sworn i saw a thread on it. Someone was crying stealth nerf.

[Erelas]

Based on sound would mean no, same as how Loki is not spotted when using silenced weaponry.

Was going to ask about this, thanks for answering.

Well done Glen!

[Laisha]

The Penta, and I think all explosive weapons, are silent.

The Nade bouncing around on the ground is silent.

The Nade hitting(must kill) an enemy is silent.

If the nade hits and doesn't kill the enemy then it is not silent.

The explosion is not silent.

 

Castana explosion is silent due to it being a silent weapon.

 

 

As of right now, penta nades cause enemies to go to the position of where the invisible player was when they detonated the nade.

 

 

A very amusing observation is that if the Penta Nade hits an enemy that cannot 'scream' such as a moa or osprey then only that single enemy is 'alerted' but if you were to hit an enemy like a crewman who can 'scream' then everyone is alerted.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Laisha

[CTanGod]

Well, may I ask one thing ?

 

Will enemies open fire towards the direction of sound coming fron another room ?

 

As in: you are in a room, a teammate is in another room within 50m of the room you are in, and in the room you are in all enemies are blinded, but in the room where the teammate is aren't and thus will attack him, will all hell break loose in you room aswell ?

 

Ah yes I forgot:

 

Will enemies that are blinded by a Radiant Finish Radial Blind (soon to be normal Blind) will they behave this way or will they behave the way they currently do ?

 

Currently they stand still after the initial stun (sometimes they toss a grenade after the stun) and don't fire or respond in anyway to dmg, touch, or sound.

Edited May 9, 2015 by CTanGod

[Mesyra]

Also, enemies shouldn't be able to tell the difference if we use the same gun with the same sound as them.

 

ex: If we use Grakata, they'll think it's just another Grineer shooting it.

This. I'll only use my karak on excal or a dera vs corpus.

[7grims]

What the hell are you doing Glen???

 

De destroyed Radial blind with line of sight, it has not been a wanted ability since a long ago, why Glen?

Why does it seems Glen is the only person at DE who fights and works for things to be reasonable, logic, and have quality?

Edited May 9, 2015 by 7grims

[tocorro]

I'm actually looking forward to it. Seems interesting.

 

They could be a bit more in panic mode, they are too calm.

Enemies can't inflict self-damage - I'm ok with that, but what if when they're shooting and they hit one of their own that is also blinded they can confuse him and for example make him shoot in that direction. 

So still they couldn't kill one another, but it would create more chaos on the battlefield. I think it would suit the power,

Edited May 9, 2015 by tocorro

[climatiseur]

Team up with Banshee Salvage Silence - Now you have technically hushed invisibility for the whole team with super boosted finisher damage!!

[[DE]Glen]

Here's how blind capture targets behave after the changes:

 

 

And to people worried about the enemies shooting blind I think you can relax:

 

 

I'm not sure but I think the firing sounds of their teammates are actually confusing them!

 

Finally -- if you plan on using blinding powers a lot it might be better to bring a Kubrow instead of a sentinel -- tactical choices!

[climatiseur]

Nice and Thanks. I'd be glad to see more similar AI improvement like this. Hope the team would spend time to do so, not just do it when one of the staff found it not bearable and tell them directly.