Update 7.11.0: Vauban!

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Isn't that what you wanted? More tankiness with agro? If that's what DE is giving, then I don't see the problem. I think you simply just want that insta-win button back, and won't take no for an answer. *shrugs* that's your prerogative, then. And, as stated a good thousand times in this thread, they're reworking Rhino. Stating "he's the worst" is just punching the dead horse again.

 

 

 

 

I guess my 300 shields, 300 hp Volt should have a MUCH harder time in Pluto. Oh, wait...he doesn't. *shrugs* volt is faster, and smaller so he can take cover better, and doesn't get caught out in the open as easily (edit) also 150 shields/100 armor doesn't make *that* much of a difference on pluto when everyone deals so much damage.

800 shields is less than 80% (if you have 801 shields base) and to make it "worse" (in terms of tankiness) you are now attracting ALL fire from ALL enemies, so you could have 20+ lvl 30+ enemies shooting at you. Nothing short of full invul will save you.

Edited May 22, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[wayneo]

800 shields is less than 80% (if you have 801 shields base) and to make it "worse" (in terms of tankiness) you are now attracting ALL fire from ALL enemies, so you could have 20+ lvl 30+ enemies shooting at you. Nothing short of full invul will save you.

well if your saying he wont be caught in open if all players play carefully going behind cover most of time, then one being caught out in the open is very low chance.

[SoulEchelon]

800 shields is less than 80% (if you have 801 shields base) and to make it "worse" (in terms of tankiness) you are now attracting ALL fire from ALL enemies, so you could have 20+ lvl 30+ enemies shooting at you. Nothing short of full invul will save you.

 

So now you want the 80% damage reduction and not the 800 extra shielding? What exactly DO you want?

[thedrag0n22]

So now you want the 80% damage reduction and not the 800 extra shielding? What exactly DO you want?

an "I don't want to try so do all the work for me game" button?

[wayneo]

an "I don't want to try so do all the work for me game" button?

you mean the button they removed?

[thedrag0n22]

you mean the button they removed?

well thats what everyone is screaming they want right?

[KvotheTheArcane1]

well if your saying he wont be caught in open if all players play carefully going behind cover most of time, then one being caught out in the open is very low chance.

sure, unless you didn't realise that there was still 2-3 enemies left that were lollygagging behind everyone you just killed, and now you're being torn apart by them. (and against infested you can't take cover)

 

an "I don't want to try so do all the work for me game" button?

you mean every room clear ult? With IS you STILL have to work, manually shooting all the enemies, while the room clearing ult you just gotta clean up a few guys.

 

you mean the button they removed?

no, it wasn't

 

 

 

So now you want the 80% damage reduction and not the 800 extra shielding? What exactly DO you want?

the damage cap was a bad idea, worse than the 80% imo. What I want is the invul back, with either shorter duration, or a higher energy cost, and/or a cooldown.

 

 

well thats what everyone is screaming they want right?

again, no because you still had to work more than someone who runs in and hits their ult, clearing the room out.

Edited May 22, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[wayneo]

sure, unless you didn't realise that there was still 2-3 enemies left that were lollygagging behind everyone you just killed, and now you're being torn apart by them. (and against infested you can't take cover)

 

you mean every room clear ult? With IS you STILL have to work, manually shooting all the enemies, while the room clearing ult you just gotta clean up a few guys.

 

no, it wasn't

 

 

 

the damage cap was a bad idea, worse than the 80% imo. What I want is the invul back, with either shorter duration, or a higher energy cost, and/or a cooldown.

 

 

again, no because you still had to work more than someone who runs in and hits their ult, clearing the room out.

u cant take jokes can you? and in my other post i said 800cap is worse then 80% reduction

[KvotheTheArcane1]

u cant take jokes can you? and in my other post i said 800cap is worse then 80% reduction true, forgot this :P

Sorry, sorry but dragon was not (or didn't seem to be), and you did not seem to be. (and this is a sore spot with me because they nerfed rhino hard, and didn't even buff anything else on him)

 

Also, no one get me wrong, I think it'd be great if rhino got a rework, it'd be cool if his abilities would all be equally useful.

[SoulEchelon]

an "I don't want to try so do all the work for me game" button?

 

 

you mean the button they removed?

 

I like you guys.

 

sure, unless you didn't realise that there was still 2-3 enemies left that were lollygagging behind everyone you just killed, and now you're being torn apart by them. (and against infested you can't take cover)

 

Oh come the f--- on. You can't kill 2 or three enemies? Have you forgotten the three weapons you have at your disposal? Your other abilities that can cause stuns or damage? Seriously? That post was the epitome of "I rely SOLELY on the old Iron Skin, and NOTHING else" mentality.

 

you mean every room clear ult? With IS you STILL have to work, manually shooting all the enemies, while the room clearing ult you just gotta clean up a few guys.

 

There aren't any "room clearing" ultis anymore. Even with max reach, you can't clear a whole entire room. Yes, if enemies are bunched together they'll happily be reduced to dust unless they're high levels, but that's not room clearing.

 

the damage cap was a bad idea, worse than the 80% imo. What I want is the invul back, with either shorter duration, or a higher energy cost.

 

So there ya have it, the other two up above were quite right - you just want the instawin button back, but with shorter duration (which won't matter if you just spam it) or higher energy cost (which won't matter if you don't use any of the other abilities and have Flow).

[wayneo]

Sorry, sorry but dragon was not (or didn't seem to be), and you did not seem to be. (and this is a sore spot with me because they nerfed rhino hard, and didn't even buff anything else on him)

 

Also, no one get me wrong, I think it'd be great if rhino got a rework, it'd be cool if his abilities would all be equally useful.

his radial blast is very useful, alot of damge and knocks down if there not dead, ulti  statis last 9 seconds, knocks them down and has big range, rush knocks them down and can be useful for rushing out when surrounded then go into cover.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

I like you guys.

 

 

Oh come the f--- on. You can't kill 2 or three enemies? Have you forgotten the three weapons you have at your disposal? Your other abilities that can cause stuns or damage? Seriously? That post was the epitome of "I rely SOLELY on the old Iron Skin, and NOTHING else" mentality.

 

generally I like long reload guns, so when I start moving, I start reloading, and true, they won't kill you, but they will hurt. and depending on where the nearest cover is, they very well might kill you. I.e. when doing a defense on pluto, if you get unlucky and get that corpus map where there are long tunnels leading to an intersection, it's hard to both hide behind cover AND defend the pod effectively

 

 

 

There aren't any "room clearing" ultis anymore. Even with max reach, you can't clear a whole entire room. Yes, if enemies are bunched together they'll happily be reduced to dust unless they're high levels, but that's not room clearing. It's still better at killing rooms than IS, you'd have to clean up a few enemies, compared to rhino with IS who has to shoot everything.

 

 

So there ya have it, the other two up above were quite right - you just want the instawin button back, but with shorter duration (which won't matter if you just spam it which every rhino I've ever seen doesn't do) or higher energy cost (which won't matter if you don't use any of the other abilities and have Flow).

IS is not, and never was an instawin. the closest I can think of was unnerfed banshee ult, it had insane range and damage.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

his radial blast is very useful, alot of damge and knocks down if there not dead, go fight a lvl 30 ancient, you'll get about 50 damage, and knock him down for a couple seconds tops

 

ulti  statis last 9 seconds more like 6 seconds in my experience, knocks them down and has big range, it does have a large range, no arguments here, but vauban has a longer ranged (well, he can activate it further away and therefore safer) and it has a decent sized AoE (not sure ho far it reaches, but it feels bigger than frost's globe. (edit) and it's also cheaper by 25 energy, so I'd expect it to not be as big as rhino's ult.

 

rush knocks them down and can be useful for rushing out when surrounded then go into cover. I won't argue here really, I like his rush, but it's damage is meh and I've never had much luck with it's knock down, they get up in a couple seconds

Still, I'd like to see the rework, just 1/2 of his abilities aren't useful enough for me to take, esp with only 150 energy (base)

Edited May 22, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[thedrag0n22]

IS is not, and never was an instawin.

please i would love to know how is up to 15 seconds of god mode that you could spam not an instawin?

 

the game is meant to be challenging not "i'm to lazy to try...iron skin"

Edited May 22, 2013 by thedrag0n22

[Thor]

Something that I think is worth emphasizing: The proposed change to Iron Skin is, in fact, a proposal, not an ironclad (ironskinclad, as Rebecca put it) decision of what'll be done. Balancing is a process - very rarely will you hit the sweet spot on your first try - so to those of you who have submitted constructive and helpful suggestions, please keep it up. You aren't being ignored.

[SoulEchelon]

IS is not, and never was an instawin. the closest I can think of was unnerfed banshee ult, it had insane range and damage.

 

Did you know you have a 3rd weapon? It's a melee weapon. Or you can use that cover to reload. Or you can be a ninja and run/dodge/wallrun toward your enemies. Stop relying on godmode for everything, man. And if you're constantly reloading, then that's your fault - not a fault in Rhino nor DE. Learn to conserve ammo and go for headshots.

 

And frames with ultis that do damage are mainly those that are supposed to be high damage frames. Volt, Ember, Saryn, Mag, etc. Excalibur has always been the "jack of all trades" frame himself - thus his ulti, though powerful, doesn't always hit everyone around him. Rhino is all about tanking - he's not supposed to be what you call a "room clearer". Wanting both high damage and high survivability is like wanting both a cake and a pie.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

please i would love to know how is up to 15 seconds of god mode that you could spam not an instawin?

Ok, I can admit "and never was an instawin." (edit finished my thought) was a bit of an overstatement, but press it once, what happens? You get invul, now don't press anything else. What happens? Nothing. Now, go to saryn/ember/banshee/volt and hit your ult (prenerf). What happens? Everything dies (minus super armored stuff) You have to deal damage yourself (which is the trade off here), which is what made it BALANCED (imo)

 

Did you know you have a 3rd weapon? It's a melee weapon. Or you can use that cover to reload. Or you can be a ninja and run/dodge/wallrun toward your enemies. Stop relying on godmode for everything, man. And if you're constantly reloading, then that's your fault - not a fault in Rhino nor DE. Learn to conserve ammo and go for headshots.

 

And frames with ultis that do damage are mainly those that are supposed to be high damage frames. Volt, Ember, Saryn, Mag, etc. Excalibur has always been the "jack of all trades" frame himself - thus his ulti, though powerful, doesn't always hit everyone around him. Rhino is all about tanking - he's not supposed to be what you call a "room clearer". Wanting both high damage and high survivability is like wanting both a cake and a pie.

right, I understand this, but rhino is SLOOOOOW even with rush, in the ~5-10 seconds, how much damage could a lvl 30+corpus/grineer put out on you? (not counting his buddies) Plenty, maybe not enough to kill you before you reached him, but a fair bit of damage for sure. (I also never said he was supposed to clear rooms, just that ults that do such a thing are easier than rhino's IS, or atleast that's what I was trying to imply, where did you get that I wanted to have both? Rhino is meant to be a CC tank (like you and I have both said before), not a mag/volt/banshee/ember/saryn type damage dealer)

Edited May 22, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[wayneo]

 

his radial blast is very useful, alot of damge and knocks down if there not dead, go fight a lvl 30 ancient, you'll get about 50 damage, and knock him down for a couple seconds tops

 

ulti  statis last 9 seconds more like 6 seconds in my experience, knocks them down and has big range, it does have a large range, no arguments here, but vauban has a longer ranged (well, he can activate it further away and therefore safer) and it has a decent sized AoE (not sure ho far it reaches, but it feels bigger than frost's globe.

 

rush knocks them down and can be useful for rushing out when surrounded then go into cover. I won't argue here really, I like his rush, but it's damage is meh and I've never had much luck with it's knock down, they get up in a couple seconds

 

couple of seconds of knockdown should allow you to run far enough, im sure statis is 9 seconds (they might be all on ground but statis is still working) then they also take couple of seconds to get up. also i think vauban skill is 2-3 times the size of frost globe

[darkelite625]

We are patiently waiting here DS's....  Can you please at lease give the general public a new deadline for update 8?  We do appreciate you and your hard work and we want it to work   :)   But please understand that you said "we need a few more days" making it seam like it was nearly done, it has been 4 days longer than the original for sure date in the live stream and now more days than the public has expected....  please take this with stride and give us something to work with that way we are not checking every single forum to see if one of you guys said something about a release date!    We all appreciate you dearly and we thankyou!   Hope to see something on the news page here soon!

-Darkelite625-

[wayneo]

We are patiently waiting here DS's....  Can you please at lease give the general public a new deadline for update 8?  We do appreciate you and your hard work and we want it to work   :)   But please understand that you said "we need a few more days" making it seam like it was nearly done, it has been 4 days longer than the original for sure date in the live stream and now more days than the public has expected....  please take this with stride and give us something to work with that way we are not checking every single forum to see if one of you guys said something about a release date!    We all appreciate you dearly and we thankyou!   Hope to see something on the news page here soon!

-Darkelite625-

be most likely on friday like when most the time they update.

[SoulEchelon]

Ok, I can admit "and never was an instawin." press it once, what happens? You get invul, now don't press anything else. What happens? Nothing. Now, go to saryn/ember/banshee/volt and hit your ult (prenerf). What happens? Everything dies (minus super armored stuff) You have to deal damage yourself (which is the trade off here), which is what made it BALANCED (imo)

 

Pre nerf? So you're basically comparing PRE NERF abilities to one that gives godmode. K. Gotcha.

 

right, I understand this, but rhino is SLOOOOOW even with rush, in the ~5-10 seconds, how much damage could a lvl 30+corpus/grineer put out on you? (not counting his buddies) Plenty, maybe not enough to kill you before you reached him, but a fair bit of damage for sure. (I also never said he was supposed to clear rooms, just that ults that do such a thing are easier than rhino's IS, or atleast that's what I was trying to imply, where did you get that I wanted to have both? Rhino is meant to be a CC tank (like you and I have both said before), not a mag/volt/banshee/ember/saryn type damage dealer)

 

So what if he's slow? Frost is just as slow, yet I've ninja'd my way toward far away enemies to pound their heads in with my Fragor just fine without reduction to my health. I mean you act like this is an MMORPG where you can't dodge or get away from oncoming damage. I'd love to see how you actually play this game.

[wayneo]

maybe they should remake rihno towards a earth power based warframe with tanking abilities e.g. skill which gathers mineral from earth and makes a big dome (of many pieces) around him (about 2 meter radius?) while it rotates that stops all attack, enamies, powers and such from touching him for about 15seconds? but there are gaps in it which allows things to effect him, of course it can cover your allys too so you can use it to revive. and when u use a skill it does diffrent things.

rush cause any of the floating rocks you hit to fly off the dome damging enamies and knocking down,

radial blast cause the layers of rocks on closest level to fly out, (like gorund level, 2nd level, 3 level, hights of the rocks floating)

and his ulti would cause all the rocks to fly stright up very high (of course whats goes up must come down) then fall down when statis ends causing damge to all enimies under the area which the dome was used and knocking them down if they some how got up, or was not effected by his ulti.

[KvotheTheArcane1]

couple of seconds of knockdown should allow you to run far enough, im sure statis is 9 seconds (they might be all on ground but statis is still working) then they also take couple of seconds to get up. also i think vauban skill is 2-3 times the size of frost globe

I can agree it's enough to run away, but they're far to expensive energy wise (75 and 100) for what they do.

 

Pre nerf? So you're basically comparing PRE NERF abilities to one that gives godmode. K. Gotcha.

 

 

 

So what if he's slow? Frost is just as slow, yet I've ninja'd my way toward far away enemies to pound their heads in with my Fragor just fine without reduction to my health. I mean you act like this is an MMORPG where you can't dodge or get away from oncoming damage. I'd love to see how you actually play this game.

I'm comparing all abilities pre nerf (only fair, no point in comparing today's banshee ult to old IS, you compare old banshee ult to old IS which GAVE INVUL DURING ANIMATION (remember? they removed that)), as that's what he was saying (he was saying IS was OP when it gave 15 seconds of invul) And I never said you can't ninja your way to enemies, but it's much harder if you're slow, and there are someplaces where you have trouble/can't do it (i.e. long corridors, defense missions it's unwise to leave the pod, etc) Also, the "conserve ammo" thing doesn't work very well with a gorgon as it's very inaccurate, and yeah I normally do conserve ammo pretty well, but if there are enough enemies I do run out of ammo, or if I'm using high rate weapons (i.e. gorgon, twin vipers, afuris, etc), or lag (not playing on a very good PC imo) it's much harder (even if I fire in bursts to not waste so much ammo)

 

How I normally play the game? It depends, with rhino I liked being the tank, working my way upfront, then taking shots until my shields are about to drop, activate IS (before the nerf) and then either kill the rest off, or find a place to back off and continue shooting (infested obv, it turned into a melee fest)

 

And yeah, you can avoid damage pretty well, it's not hard, but if you have enemies shooting at you, you can't dodge ALL of it, and that adds up (unless you find a bit of cover to hide behind obv)

Edited May 22, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Jackuri]

okay so basically, Rhino needs to go back to the way it was. Too many people are upset with the Game Devs right now it doesn't look so good. If you can't beat 'em, might as well join 'em.

[thedrag0n22]

okay so basically, Rhino needs to go back to the way it was. Too many people are upset with the Game Devs right now it doesn't look so good. If you can't beat 'em, might as well join 'em.

i will never join people who want a lazy button