Kiste - Ceres Bug?

[KIREEK]

Just from watching the video i can safely say it's the bombards damage that is way to high.

I have no clue as to why ppl keep mentioning bubles, shields, ballistas, warframes and even the areas.

 

The bombards damage in the aoe is doing several thousands of damage, not enough to kill the terminals in 1 hit, but it does kill in 2, as for warframes, even something with 1000 shields and 1000 health will fall as you need pretty much 3x more than that to survive the 1st impact.

 

It's AOE so if you are near the explosion, you will die, volt shields and bubles will not protect you

Bombards spawn in several areas of the game

ballistas make sounds, need to exist, need to shoot and even if they have a shot it will never kill the terminal or the player in 1 hit trough walls.

Warframes do not impact anything.

 

Yes bombards are bugged and the damage scalling is off.

Edited June 19, 2015 by KIREEKPSO

[Kalenath]

There did not seem to be any Bombards on the map when I died.

 

None of the others saw any. I saw none even after revive.

Edited June 19, 2015 by Kalenath

[Centias]

Just from watching the video i can safely say it's the bombards damage that is way to high.

I have no clue as to why ppl keep mentioning bubles, shields, ballistas, warframes and even the areas.

 

The bombards damage in the aoe is doing several thousands of damage, not enough to kill the terminals in 1 hit, but it does kill in 2, as for warframes, even something with 1000 shields and 1000 health will fall as you need pretty much 3x more than that to survive the 1st impact.

 

It's AOE so if you are near the explosion, you will die, volt shields and bubles will not protect you

Bombards spawn in several areas of the game

ballistas make sounds, need to exist, need to shoot and even if they have a shot it will never kill the terminal or the player in 1 hit trough walls.

Warframes do not impact anything.

 

Yes bombards are bugged and the damage scalling is off.

 

Snow globe and volt's shield keep getting mentioned because this bug ignores them. Ballistas are getting mentioned because some people are guessing they could be doing it, but most of us don't think that's the case. Warframes and areas are pretty much just being mentioned to give more details as to what they were using and where it happened, in case it may be relevant information, because right now no one is really certain. Sometimes what you're using gives more information to finding the problem than you realize. If it were a recurring theme with one warframe, or one mission, it helps narrow down where the developers need to look in order to fix it. So far, I think it's just been narrowed down to Grineer for sure, with Bombards being prime suspect.

 

You could possibly be right that it's Bombards, but the thing is, I was definitely killed in this same fashion on at least three if not more occasions in the same mission where I was hit by absolutely nothing and definitely not a missile (let alone having an enemy in the same room to shoot me), and yet it left not only myself but also my Kubrow bleeding out on the ground. I would say even if it is the Bombards, it can't be every missile doing it because I was hit by missiles in the same mission and was fine.

 

It might be that right now, the non-homing missiles are for some reason doing 20x normal damage, hitting their target instantly, not causing any visible explosion or projectile, and passing through walls and entire rooms without issue in order to drop you every single time they use it. Right now, we just don't know. But to say the least, this isn't a simple issue of "Bombard damage scaling is broken" when it often happens when there is no missile hitting nearby, no Bombard nearby, or not even any enemies nearby. It's a bit more complicated than that.

[[DE]Saske]

The first idea i had was maybe it is the lightning damage, but as funny as that would be, it is probably rather the bombards.

 

From the video and other posts you find on this topic, it might be a host/client issue where damage on the host is higher then on clients, one idea was that the physical damage from the rocket scales weird (so not the explosion damage rather then the impact damage).

 

Will do further testing over the weekend.

[7Lions]

if it takes the bombards two shots to kill the terminal, it doesn't explain why the mission insta-fails as soon as I go down, in any case I'm glad the bug has come to light and has caught DE's attention. 

[Epicagemo]

The first idea i had was maybe it is the lightning damage, but as funny as that would be, it is probably rather the bombards.

 

...

Super charged bombards? xDDD

[Zareek]

Just ran Kiste, and one of the players got 1 hit, 10 seconds after we lost. He was playing Excalibur, I was on Frost.

 

Just from watching the video i can safely say it's the bombards damage that is way to high.

I have no clue as to why ppl keep mentioning bubles, shields, ballistas, warframes and even the areas.

 

The bombards damage in the aoe is doing several thousands of damage, not enough to kill the terminals in 1 hit, but it does kill in 2, as for warframes, even something with 1000 shields and 1000 health will fall as you need pretty much 3x more than that to survive the 1st impact.

 

It's AOE so if you are near the explosion, you will die, volt shields and bubles will not protect you

Bombards spawn in several areas of the game

ballistas make sounds, need to exist, need to shoot and even if they have a shot it will never kill the terminal or the player in 1 hit trough walls.

Warframes do not impact anything.

 

Yes bombards are bugged and the damage scalling is off.

It's not bombards. We just failed our mission, and there was no enemies around the defensive objective. When bombards DO hit globe or players, we just take damage, not a 1 hit kill.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Zareek

[Epicagemo]

Just ran Kiste, and one of the players got 1 hit, 10 seconds after we lost. He was playing Excalibur, I was on Frost.

 

It's not bombards. We just failed our mission, and there was no enemies around the defensive objective. When bombards DO hit globe or players, we just take damage, not a 1 hit kill.

Someone posted a link saying bombards at level 17 oneshot a fully modded valkyr at Apollo survival. Also, bombard missiles are not the easiest things to spot. However it may be possible that it's two bugs in one situation. It's also possible that bombards are not the issue, but the majority of evidence points towards the bombards.

[Zareek]

Someone posted a link saying bombards at level 17 oneshot a fully modded valkyr at Apollo survival. Also, bombard missiles are not the easiest things to spot. However it may be possible that it's two bugs in one situation. It's also possible that bombards are not the issue, but the majority of evidence points towards the bombards.

I'm 100% positive that the bombards are not at fault when my missions failed.

[Epicagemo]

I'm 100% positive that the bombards are not at fault when my missions failed.

Got video proof? I'm saying anything is possible, but most of the evidence points toward the bombards. It's possible that the bombard shot multiple volleys, they also have travel time, so it's possible that your mission failed because of a bombard. Were you intently watching the terminal? Also, Enemies don't have to be close to shoot a rocket.

[Zareek]

Got video proof? I'm saying anything is possible, but most of the evidence points toward the bombards. It's possible that the bombard shot multiple volleys, they also have travel time, so it's possible that your mission failed because of a bombard. Were you intently watching the terminal? Also, Enemies don't have to be close to shoot a rocket.

I dont have video proof. If they are shooting invisible, silent rockets that leaves no trail then sure, it couldbe them. Otherwise I fail to see how. Normal bombard rockets are noisy, they leave trails and they are very visible. Also, missiles knocks you down even if it kills you. When I see people get 1 hit, they just drop dead and there are no explosion.

[[DE]Saske]

^The player that got one shot, was that the host?

[MechaGent]

Here's a vid that should help to clarify at least one of the bugs.

 

 

The actual phenomenon happens near the end of the video, when we suddenly lose out of nowhere. Proceeding back several frames, one can observe (a couple frames after the 1:03 mark) a Bombard missile coming in towards that rectangular piece of cover right outside the door, then detonating. On the same frame that it detonates visibly, both the host and my kubrow were put into bleedout, and the Console was reduced to 0 health. Interestingly, the Console still has 500 shields for a frame or two afterwards, before that zeroes out as well, and we lose the run. If any viewers are having trouble tracking player whereabouts for this sequence, the host was behind me at detonation, and right next to the Console. It's a little difficult to actually make out the missile in flight using the YouTube speed controls (though the explosion is fairly obvious), so please take my word that a frame-by-frame viewing makes this apparent.

 

EDIT: Or I could remember that image-posting is a thing as well, and link a slideshow. Will do so as soon as I'm done putting it together.

EDIT2: And here's that link: http://imgur.com/a/eAESO#0

Edited June 20, 2015 by MechaGent

[Epicagemo]

Here's a vid that should help to clarify at least one of the bugs.

...

 

 

 

EDIT: Or I could remember that image-posting is a thing as well, and link a slideshow. Will do so as soon as I'm done putting it together.

EDIT2: And here's that link: http://imgur.com/a/eAESO#0

I don't know if you saw, but it one shot your dog earlier when the terminal hit 4k HP. The Bombard bug happened before then. This was around 10 seconds. The second shot near the end wiped the terminal.

No way a bombard can easily one shot a kubrow like that.

Edited June 20, 2015 by Epicagemo

[Faulcun]

If the rocket is the cause of the damage, which it appears that it is, the distance that it is dealing damage is HUGE.

 

Am I correct in saying that even though you bring your own kubrow, the host still tells the client where the kubrow is? Which if this is the case, it would make sense that this bug affects your kubrow and not you, along with other objects that have their own health.

 

What if this bug is increasing the damage and range of the rockets on the host? This would explain my deaths during the raid where there was nothing around me. My question would be how far is the range being scaled? Where we were having this issue was on the second stage with the door combination. That is a huge room too.... and it didnt matter where I was, I would just fall over dead randomly.

 

Thats like dropping a nuke anywhere in the room, and only the host dies... But on the client side, the information is sent properly, and no damage or little damage is taken. I noticed in your screen shots that Azure.M is the closest to that blast, and also did not take any damage to health or shields.

 

Or perhaps there is an error with the explosion to begin with, and the game doesnt understand what to do and applies the damage to the host and any host controlled objects.

 

I wonder if this can be reproduced in the simulacrum with 20 bombards

[MechaGent]

I don't know if you saw, but it one shot your dog earlier when the terminal hit 4k HP. The Bombard bug happened before then. This was around 10 seconds. The second shot near the end wiped the terminal.

No way a bombard can easily one shot a kubrow like that.

 

Hmmm. You know, I'm going to go figure out the Bombards' damage right now, to check this. If it is a glitch, though, its a different one entirely, because it does seem to apply the damage logically (in that my poor dog was standing quite near the explosions). In the other example, there's no in-between frames; one frame, my dog is at close to, if not actual, max health & shields - the next, she's down, the host's down, the Console's dead (though still shielded for an additional frame), and we're down a match.

 

 

If the rocket is the cause of the damage, which it appears that it is, the distance that it is dealing damage is HUGE.

 

Am I correct in saying that even though you bring your own kubrow, the host still tells the client where the kubrow is? Which if this is the case, it would make sense that this bug affects your kubrow and not you, along with other objects that have their own health.

 

What if this bug is increasing the damage and range of the rockets on the host? This would explain my deaths during the raid where there was nothing around me. My question would be how far is the range being scaled? Where we were having this issue was on the second stage with the door combination. That is a huge room too.... and it didnt matter where I was, I would just fall over dead randomly.

 

Thats like dropping a nuke anywhere in the room, and only the host dies... But on the client side, the information is sent properly, and no damage or little damage is taken. I noticed in your screen shots that Azure.M is the closest to that blast, and also did not take any damage to health or shields.

 

Or perhaps there is an error with the explosion to begin with, and the game doesnt understand what to do and applies the damage to the host and any host controlled objects.

 

I wonder if this can be reproduced in the simulacrum with 20 bombards

 

Regarding the kubrow location thing, I have no idea, but that would make sense structurally. Regarding the explosion wonkiness, my personal hypothesis is that the damage is falling off inversely (is that a word? it sounds odd to me) with distance, but only for the host. Which distance is being used is still unclear, but I would consider pretty much every combo involving the Bombard, the explosion, the Console, and the host. If the Bombard base-damage testing goes swiftly (which hopefully it will; I've spent the past week coming up with a good system), I'll do some more Kiste runs, see if I can get additional footage.

 

Oh, just thought of this: if you get a good video, remember to save your EE.log from that session as well, it might help with the diagnosis.

 

In summary:

Current Culprit appears to be Bombard missiles.

Problem appears to be host-only.

Symptoms of problem:

     -Sudden, inexplicable loss of life on the part of the host;

     -Simultaneous (and I do mean this exactly - at most a frame or two's delay between the two) massive loss of shields/health on the part of the Console;

     -(Iffy) Simultaneous downing of host's Sentinel/Kubrow (I'd consider kubrow-downing to be a more reliable symptom, if indeed this is a symptom, as kubrows are much, much hardier than sentinels).

     -As all this is happening, have eyes on an explosion, either just occurring, or having occurred a frame or two earlier.

          EDIT: As noted by Grulos to be shown in both his video and my Exhibit 004, this symptom is more of an icing-on-the-cake thing, in that one might not necessarily see an explosion going off.

 

Will update with Bombard base damage (and subsequent damage @ level 40) if successful in that endeavor

UPDATE1: ...I think I may have found a woopsie. The preliminary testing was, unfortunately, rather accidental, so no hard numbers yet, but... Absorb with Narrow Minded vs Lvl 4 Bombard: 48 damage. Absorb with Overextended and Stretch, same enemy: 65 damage. This was in the Simulucrum, for clarity's sake.

UPDATE2: And then I remembered why I had put enemy damage analysis of the Ogris on the backburner: its frustratingly irregular AOE, even when hit point-blank with it. Might update with Absorb numbers tomorrow, might not. On the bright side, I've found the contact damage for the player-usable Ogris: 150 of what I'm pretty sure is Blast damage (so like Vauban's (and the enemies') grenades in that regard).

UPDATE3: New album up: http://imgur.com/a/C5T9N#0

UPDATE4: New album 2: Album Harder

UPDATE5: New album 3: BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF MEAT

Edited June 22, 2015 by MechaGent

[Faulcun]

Although your pictures show insta death, its difficult to gauge just how much damage is being done with such low health and shields to begin with, aside from your kubro.

 

However I do believe you still caught the bug because there is no incoming visible rocket damage or anything else.

[MechaGent]

Although your pictures show insta death, its difficult to gauge just how much damage is being done with such low health and shields to begin with, aside from your kubro.

 

However I do believe you still caught the bug because there is no incoming visible rocket damage or anything else.

 

With the possible exception of Exhibit#4, all albums have a bombard explosion going off in the distance at the same time, or within a frame or two, of the instadeath.

[[DE]Saske]

I think with all the work done so far, it is pretty much narrowed down to a host bug with the damage calculation of bombards. Nothing more we can do, now we need a staff member to check what damage numbers actually show or if they find anything suspicious in the code.

[Faulcun]

With the possible exception of Exhibit#4, all albums have a bombard explosion going off in the distance at the same time, or within a frame or two, of the instadeath.

 

Oh yeah i see the explosions now. That first set of screen shots really shows the distance of effect from all the way down the hallway.

 

Im gonna try a speed build and use some shields in the simulacrum to see if i can gauge a distance

[Grulos]

 

Hmmm. You know, I'm going to go figure out the Bombards' damage right now, to check this. If it is a glitch, though, its a different one entirely, because it does seem to apply the damage logically (in that my poor dog was standing quite near the explosions). In the other example, there's no in-between frames; one frame, my dog is at close to, if not actual, max health & shields - the next, she's down, the host's down, the Console's dead (though still shielded for an additional frame), and we're down a match.

 

 

 

Regarding the kubrow location thing, I have no idea, but that would make sense structurally. Regarding the explosion wonkiness, my personal hypothesis is that the damage is falling off inversely (is that a word? it sounds odd to me) with distance, but only for the host. Which distance is being used is still unclear, but I would consider pretty much every combo involving the Bombard, the explosion, the Console, and the host. If the Bombard base-damage testing goes swiftly (which hopefully it will; I've spent the past week coming up with a good system), I'll do some more Kiste runs, see if I can get additional footage.

 

Oh, just thought of this: if you get a good video, remember to save your EE.log from that session as well, it might help with the diagnosis.

 

In summary:

Current Culprit appears to be Bombard missiles.

Problem appears to be host-only.

Symptoms of problem:

     -Sudden, inexplicable loss of life on the part of the host;

     -Simultaneous (and I do mean this exactly - at most a frame or two's delay between the two) massive loss of shields/health on the part of the Console;

     -(Iffy) Simultaneous downing of host's Sentinel/Kubrow (I'd consider kubrow-downing to be a more reliable symptom, if indeed this is a symptom, as kubrows are much, much hardier than sentinels).

     -As all this is happening, have eyes on an explosion, either just occurring, or having occurred a frame or two earlier.

 

Will update with Bombard base damage (and subsequent damage @ level 40) if successful in that endeavor

UPDATE1: ...I think I may have found a woopsie. The preliminary testing was, unfortunately, rather accidental, so no hard numbers yet, but... Absorb with Narrow Minded vs Lvl 4 Bombard: 48 damage. Absorb with Overextended and Stretch, same enemy: 65 damage. This was in the Simulucrum, for clarity's sake.

UPDATE2: And then I remembered why I had put enemy damage analysis of the Ogris on the backburner: its frustratingly irregular AOE, even when hit point-blank with it. Might update with Absorb numbers tomorrow, might not. On the bright side, I've found the contact damage for the player-usable Ogris: 150 of what I'm pretty sure is Blast damage (so like Vauban's (and the enemies') grenades in that regard).

UPDATE3: New album up: http://imgur.com/a/C5T9N#0

UPDATE4: New album 2: Album Harder

UPDATE5: New album 3: BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF MEAT

The video I posted earlier in this thread shows, that there sometimes are no explosions, but you still get downed immediately.

[MechaGent]

The video I posted earlier in this thread shows, that there sometimes are no explosions, but you still get downed immediately.

 

Yep, same with my Exhibit 004. Will edit my post to clarify that that's (is optional the right word to use here? I guess I'll run with it) an optional symptom.

[Azure.M]

The video I posted earlier in this thread shows, that there sometimes are no explosions, but you still get downed immediately.

 

Well given the massive distance these bugged booms can kill at in the other screenshots, you can't really say for sure there were no explosions. Might have been behind you or around a corner or something.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Azure.M

[Faulcun]

With as much information here, this shouldnt be too hard for DE to reproduce.

[MechaGent]

With as much information here, this shouldnt be too hard for DE to reproduce.

 

They did already, I just wanted to provide additional clarity about what the cause is until it's fixed.