Nerfing In General - Quickest Way To Lose Your Playerbase

[Aerensiniac]

The nerfing in this patch blew a few minds already, but really DE. If you have no idea what you want from a weapon/frame, then dont put it in the game.

See people invest in weapons and frames with the intention to use them as they are. By the no notice nerfing runs you do, people lose their investment, potatoes, time, money, and under circumstances platinum too.

 

Its literally the quickest way to &!$$ off the playerbase and/or make them leave the game.

If you didnt intend for banshee to have a 2 room wide cleaner, then you should have fixed it ON SPOT, the moment you have put it in the game, not 1-2 months later when everybody spent time/effort/money/resources on it.

 

Same for rhino and same for basically everything with nerfing yet to come.

I play only 2 frames at present, but if any similar nerfing happens to them, i know i will leave this game to hell.

Not because balance is needed, but because you are incapable to tell what you are doing. Im not going to invest my time in a literal minefield of a game, which blows the moment one of the dev's has a bad day or idea, making all my effort, time, money and play up to that certain point obsolete.

 

So once again: Please make up your mind what you want in the game and what you do not want.

Your perplexity destroys the few things this game consists of, and thats literally not much. All we can do is kill to farm frames and use frames to kill and farm more frames.

You are screwing here with literally 1 of the 2 things this game has to offer.

 

EDIT:

 

Rhino will be reviewed and changed.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[ShadowsCrush]

a) it's beta, of course frames powers are going to change

b) there are more important bugs and issues to address than certain powers being too good for a few weeks, its all PvE, so people farm a little easier for a few weeks, its not game breaking

c) you would have to be a complete moron to not expect nerfs to things like banshee's sound quake after just seeing the thing used or using it once

Edited May 18, 2013 by ShadowsCrush

[Noponis]

if you leave the game because your items become balanced and not 1 button win monsters , then that's your decision and not something that is bad in general , not to mention completely silly

i would leave the game if they didnt constantly nerf the stuff that's too strong if anything

[PapaKicks]

#1 They own the game, they have the right to do anything they want to it,

 

#2 They WILL do anything they want to it, especially if there is an UNFORESEEN problem that needs to be fixed. Players discover "god mode" for example. #2 part B They will also do whatever they want if they think it will make the game better for all.

 

#3 When you clicked "I agree" during the install or account registration, you agreed that they have to right to alter the game at any time for any reason. If you do not agree with this, then you should uninstall and thereby terminate your agreement with DE.

 

#4 There is a HUGE difference between a NERF and a FIX. I am sure you are familiar with nerf toys. They are spongy and designed to be safe for kids. There is a Nerf gun that let's you shoot your friends without anyone dying, or even getting hurt. Turning a real gun into a nerf gun is a nerf. A fix on the other hand is turning a real gun from a .50 caliber to a .45 caliber. You cannot shoot either at your friends or they will get hurt or die.

 

#5 Your request is completely unreasonable unless you believe the devs can foresee the future.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Akivoodoo

[BearlyKoalified]

So despite DE actually asking and wanting constructive feedback you basically just complain and have a rant at them. See, it's posts like these that make DE and other developers literally facepalm and become frustrated.

 

"See people invest in weapons and frames with the intention to use them as they are."

Question; Have you ever played an MMO before? Because things change, for better or worse. They change.

[BlueJackal]

a) it's beta

 

There we go, the only answer needed.

[crow-k]

 

 

#5 Your request is completely unreasonable unless you believe the devs can foresee the future.

They can.

[Lyphian]

The nerfing in this patch blew a few minds already, but really DE. If you have no idea what you want from a weapon/frame, then dont put it in the game.

See people invest in weapons and frames with the intention to use them as they are. By the no notice nerfing runs you do, people lose their investment, potatoes, time, money, and under circumstances platinum too.

 

Its literally the quickest way to &!$$ off the playerbase and/or make them leave the game.

If you didnt intend for banshee to have a 2 room wide cleaner, then you should have fixed it ON SPOT, the moment you have put it in the game, not 1-2 months later when everybody spent days on farming it.

 

Same for rhino and same for basically everything with nerfing yet to come.

I play only 2 frames at present, but if any similar nerfing happens to them, i know i will leave this game to hell.

Not because balance is needed, but because you are incapable to tell what you are doing. Im not going to invest my time in a literal minefield of a game, which blows the moment one of the dev's has a bad day or idea, making all my effort, time, money and play up to that certain point obsolete.

 

So once again: Please make up your mind what you want in the game and what you do not want.

Your perplexity destroys the few things this game consists of, and thats literally not much. All we can do is kill to farm frames and use frames to kill and farm more frames.

You are screwing here with literally 1 of the 2 things this game has to offer.

Let them do what they want and as they want, whenever they want. They do their best and that's what you pretty much want from them.

[LoRDxDeMoN]

So despite DE actually asking and wanting constructive feedback you basically just complain and have a rant at them. See, it's posts like these that make DE and other developers literally facepalm and become frustrated.

 

"See people invest in weapons and frames with the intention to use them as they are."

Question; Have you ever played an MMO before? Because things change, for better or worse. They change.

You're in the Design Council. Did you know about the upcoming changes? What about the weapon pricing changes? Why doesn't DE consult you guys before making rash decisions? Isn't that what you're there for?

[Aerensiniac]

a) it's beta, of course frames powers are going to change

b) there are more important bugs and issues to address than certain powers being too good for a few weeks, its all PvE, so people farm a little easier for a few weeks, its not game breaking

c) you would have to be a complete moron to not expect nerfs to things like banshee's sound quake after just seeing the thing used or using it once

 

 

 

 

And none of this answers anything that has been said.

Beta is not an answer to anything when you are actually selling the items in question for money.

For free players its just a **** load of disappointment, since you have destroyed only god knows how much time and effort they have spent on obtaining and maxing out the sepcific warframe, but there are also the cash players.

 

So with all due respect and to everyone who is calling BETA:

Nobody gives a damn, because the entire mess is a result of a.) not thinking stuff through b.) letting it rot inside the game for months without even looking at it and thus allowing players to invest in it c.) then suddenly nerfing it into the ground without a warning, throwing everyone's investments out the nearest ****ing window.

None of these things have anything to do with the concept of Beta, so by saying "Beta" nobody will give a damn. Not those who now got 2 useless frames after days or weeks of grinding, not those who spent platinum on it.

 

None questioned DE's right to change things, but all change can and will come with repercussions and THAT is what this thread is about.

A few more all around nerfs like the current one, and they can kiss their palyer base good night cause nobody will give a single **** about whether or not its beta, people will leave.

THINK before dumping stuff into the game.

Edited May 19, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[ShadowsCrush]

 

 

And none of this answers anything that has been said.

Beta is not an answer to anything when you are actually selling the items in question for money.

For free players its just a **** load of disappointment, since you have destroyed only god knows how much time and effort they have spent on obtaining and maxing out the sepcific warframe, but there are also the cash players.

 

So with all due respect and to everyone who is calling BETA:

Nobody gives a damn.

Not those who now got 2 useless frames after days or weeks of grinding, not those who spent platinum on it.

 

Sorry kids, this is not how business works.

Nobody questions DE's right to change things, but all change can and will come with repercussions and THAT is what this thread is about.

A few more all around nerfs like the current one, and they can kiss their palyer base good night cause nobody will give a single **** about whether or not its beta.

 

THINK before dumping stuff into the game.

 

 

It's more that you're just not very bright.

Just because your time on the forums has been to whine and complain, others have spent a great deal of time discussing the fact that something like Rhino's complete invincibility is a no-go.

That same discussion came up AGAIN when they patched Ember to have a similar affect a month or so ago.

 

Whether you like it or not, whether players who never visit the forums like it or not, balancing is going to happen.

 

The nerfs and buffs they give have yet to completely break a character or make it useless, and it honestly can't ever happen since powers aren't even necessary.  There was a time when Ember really only had two useful powers; did people advise changes, sure, did it break the game that people only used two of her powers? NO, and now she's in a half decent place as far as usability is concerned.

 

So as we go over our points again:

 

1) You're mad

2) You're bad

3) This is beta, you play knowing it is beta and it is your responsibility to test things and offer feedback, but this is not feedback, this is whining.

4) No one is forced to buy anything, it is their own choosing to spend money, there are blueprints for literally everything but the newest items

5) I'm not even sure why you're complaining about banshee tbh, her only patch notes say she got a damage increase

6) No frame should ever have complete invincibility like Rhino did and any logical person would admit to that

Edited May 18, 2013 by ShadowsCrush

[BlueJackal]

So with all due respect and to everyone who is calling BETA:

Nobody gives a damn.

 

Well they should give a damn. It is not some meaningless word, it's a very important one! If you cannot handle things changing in a BETA, then you should not participate in them. I have literally read complaints like yours in every beta I've ever been in.

[Aerensiniac]

It's more that you're just not very bright.

Just because your time on the forums has been to whine and complain, others have spent a great deal of time discussing the fact that something like Rhino's complete invincibility is a no-go.

That same discussion came up AGAIN when they patched Ember to have a similar affect a month or so ago.

I've been in those threads my not so very bright brother, and i have witnessed that these threads have all had VERY varying amounts of support.

That something has been discussed extensively doesnt mean a damn, and especially not in regards of this thread where not specific changes, but nerfing in general is discussed.

As a conclusion, with all due of respect: Figure out what the **** the thread is about before calling others "not very bright".

 

The rest of your post has even less to do with the thread so im simply skipping on it.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Aerensiniac

[Aerensiniac]

Well they should give a damn. It is not some meaningless word, it's a very important one! If you cannot handle things changing in a BETA, then you should not participate in them. I have literally read complaints like yours in every beta I've ever been in.

Lets go step by step then!

1. Even if its beta, you will still piss off your player base, when you make their hard earned stuff useless. This is not a question of beta or anything, its a simple repercussion that will happen when you as a developer put stuff into the game, which has nothing to do with what is intended thus resulting in vastly overpowered objects.

 

2. If they were to give a damn about the fact that his is a beta, then there is only one logical conclusion: Stop playing the game till a point in time when (if ever) a version gets released where you no longer have to fear that your investments will turn out to be total waste of time and money, cause really: thats what has happened right now.

 

3. If you pay for it, then its not beta.

Its as simple as that.

If you have taken money from your customers, then "beta" stands only to cover your *** cause by definition you are selling something that has a chance of losing all of its value on the long run.

This is nothing short of a fraud.

 

BUT!

None of this matters.

There are only 2 things that matter:

1. Nerfing will piss off your players, no matter how many times you call beta

2. It can be prevented by using your damn head and not implementing stuff into the game that is obviously over- or under-powered.

[ASH_PRIME]

 

 

Dont want any part of this discussion...

But LOVE that Pic ahhhahahaa

 

[sylothix]

The imbalanced rhino crap was the only thing the game had to offer? Really now?

Edited May 18, 2013 by sylothix

[PapaKicks]

3. If you pay for it, then its not beta.

Its as simple as that.

If you have taken money from your customers, then "beta" stands only to cover your *** cause by definition you are selling something that has a chance of losing all of its value on the long run.

This is nothing short of a fraud.

 

No. Just no. Were you somehow duped into paying for a game that was advertised as NOT in beta?

[Aerensiniac]

No. Just no. Were you somehow duped into paying for a game that was advertised as NOT in beta?

A simple question: What do you think what effect will have to say "well thats beta" after ****in up your players in this manner?

Yes, they will be discouraged or mad and they wont really care why you did it.

 

Again: Can be prevented by THINKING before implementing something.

[Deost]

I really hate the fact that a lot of games remain in "beta" for a lot longer then they should because they can tweak stuff indefinitely and just chalk it up to,

 

"Beta growth spurts."

 

If a game goes live with a cash shop you can spend real money in it?

 

It's a 'soft' launch to me.

 

It's not beta anymore.

[Judopunch]

You're in the Design Council. Did you know about the upcoming changes? What about the weapon pricing changes? Why doesn't DE consult you guys before making rash decisions? Isn't that what you're there for?

Rash Hu, you do marketing and analytical? You have some kind of inside info about their long term plans that we don't? Please let me know, we're all dieting to know.

[ShadowsCrush]

Rash Hu, you do marketing and analytical? You have some kind of inside info about their long term plans that we don't? Please let me know, we're all dieting to know.

 

that's fine, a diet would probably do most of you some good

[Guest]

if you leave the game because your items become balanced and not 1 button win monsters , then that's your decision and not something that is bad in general , not to mention completely silly

i would leave the game if they didnt constantly nerf the stuff that's too strong if anything

There's balancing something and then there's making it useless because it's better than something else.

 

The shotgun nerf for example, before DE fixed it, was so extreme and unnecessary, and it was a sweep nerf as well so it targeted all three of them. For some reason because the Hek was deemed overpowered this was apparently good reason to nerf the Strun and Boar as well, neither of which were overpowered.

 

DE has this bizarre mentality of "nerf hard first and take feedback later." A DE employee in the clan I'm in took flak yesterday for the Rhino skin nerf prior to it being explained that the toxic/stun immunity being removed was accidental. Somebody brought up that Trinity can now tank better than Rhino. The employee's response? "Oh we're going to nerf her as well." So basically, because Rhino is now worse than Trinity, the answer isn't to rework Rhino to make him a better tank, but to nerf Trinity into the ground when she's already useless outside boss fights.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Guest

[Judopunch]

There's balancing something and then there's making it useless because it's better than something else.

 

The shotgun nerf for example, before DE fixed it, was so extreme and unnecessary, and it was a sweep nerf as well so it targeted all three of them. For some reason because the Hek was deemed overpowered this was apparently good reason to nerf the Strun and Boar as well, neither of which were overpowered.

 

DE has this bizarre mentality of "nerf hard first and take feedback later." A DE employee in the clan I'm in took flak yesterday for the Rhino skin nerf prior to it being explained that the toxic/stun immunity being removed was accidental. Somebody brought up that Trinity can now tank better than Rhino. The employee's response? "Oh we're going to nerf her as well." So basically, because Rhino is now worse than Trinity, the answer isn't to rework Rhino to make him a better tank, but to nerf Trinity into the ground when she's already useless outside boss fights.

Maybe, when she and Rhino are not unkillable, than we can have better fights both boss and non-boss, and some of her other skills can be looked at. Maybe they have goals and plans that stretch out for the next 6 months that you are not aware of and the entire game is better off for the adjustments they are making and testing. Maybe they know shes useless and are working on a non-toxic way to fix her, which probably wont happen because her kit was a dumb idea in the first place as the entire damn thing is op and passive, not to mention boring.

[Judopunch]

that's fine, a diet would probably do most of you some good

Dat ipad spellchecker :P

[PapaKicks]

DE has this bizarre mentality of "nerf hard first and take feedback later."

 

Pretty much every game I've ever played has the same mentality. I've never really understood it, but have gotten used it it.

 

@OP : If you've played Diablo 3, when you buy an item from the auction house, there is a pop-up that essentially says "Items may be altered at any time."

I just searched for the words on that pop-up and ound their FAQ - I think it fits here perfectly...

What happens if there is a patch and the item I purchased is altered?

It's important for us to ensure that Diablo III remains balanced and fun for years after launch. To that end, it may be necessary to change stats or alter abilities of items from time to time. It’s very important to note that Blizzard will not be providing refunds or making other accommodations if a purchased item is later altered in a patch. Given this, it's up to players to determine whether they're comfortable purchasing items in the real-money auction house.

I'll repeat that: 'It's up to the players to determine whether they're comfortable purchasing items' [that may change].