Abandon All Hope ; It Will Be Fine - A Message To Newer Players

[dashashou]

as a max ranked player , from back in the day i have a message to those who are newer players - 

 

Stop seeing this game in terms of "potential  " The core game play  of this game has remained constant  in that 2 years ,

 

and in those 2 years  the changes to the core game mechanics has negativity affected the game  -  we used to be able to fire while sprinting  , do mid air front / black  flips ,  have charge attacks - that came with a  mods system  rather than the eeeeee  "combo system  ", easly to do ground attacks , and a much better solar map . 

 

This game will NEVER be out of beta  ,and that's how they want it . DE  likes that they can expect people to know what a EE log is . DE loves that  they can punish players for falling through all the holes in the map via striping active buffs from them . That half finished is good enough . 

 

That shark wing will be probly be a blue shifted  version of arch wing probably  with the same boring interception mechanic . 

 

I have come to accept that the drop tables will never be fair / fixed . That scaling  will never be fix as well . That  new content ie- the new void items will just be slight  stat increased  gold clones of the old ones  All these things i have come to accept  .

 

And this acceptance has stopped me from burning out . Just enjoy your new favorite weapon till power creep / nerf will wash it to the way side .

 

And most importantly that   Warframe is  a fun game , one that 's good but will never be great with alot of meh content that is best ignored / burn through asap .  Enjoy it while  at the same time don't ever expect it to get better .  

 

 

[TwelfthAngel]

Much truth is spoken here. 

All we can do is wait to see if DE gets its together and actually makes warframe a good game.

[2pro4u.com]

This is a very pessimistic view....of the truth

[Frost.Umbra]

Sad but I agree. Core mechanics haven't changed, Archwing was a huge disappointment for me and I anticipate Sharkwing will do more of the same. I love the game and will probably still keep playing. But I've felt discouraged about the direction of the game for many months now.

[OverlordMcGeek]

Where is the #truth?

 

Oh, here it is^.

[XAN3MK]

A lot of the mechanics and systems have been downgraded over the course of many patches, instead of being upgraded. Melee system and star chart interface come to mind. Oh, and the god awful Liset "interface" which replaced the perfectly functional interface with a redundant clutter that more annoying to use than functional.

 

Hell, I remember the "skill tree" the frames and weapons used to have back in closed beta and tbh, that system had inf. more potential and space to work with and improve on comapred to the hollow and one dimensional "card" modding system we use nowadays.

[elele]

What a load of rubbish propaganda. 

 

and in those 2 years  the changes to the core game mechanics has negativity affected the game  

 

Speak only for yourself. 

[BubblesTheBlob]

This is a very pessimistic view....of the truth

 

I see it as optimistic, yet realistic.

 

I personally love the game for its core gameplay, specifically, the "space ninjas in space" aspect where I run around shooting things and forcing my enemy into cover instead of the other way around. I'm almost always the most powerful thing in the room, even if it takes two magazines of the gun I'm using to kill a heavier enemy type. This has never changed, nor will it. We will always have a positive K/D ratio against the Grineer, Corpus, Infested, and Corrupted (and probably the Sentient when they release). Leaping across the map at high speeds, finding interesting combinations, and overall just dunking the ever-living F*** out of what's in front of me is what keeps me here and happy with the game. Very few other games do that in such a satisfying way, and DE has had quite a bit of experience making such tight, refined gameplay.

 

Game does have its faults, though. Things break with every patch, we haven't had a bug-free event in ages (not counting stratus alerts, which usually work surprisingly well), and there are still countless places where I can get out of the map to places where I'm not supposed to be. Some weapons will always be better than other weapons, making the power creep real.

 

For reference, I've been here since just after U7 (about March 2013), and I'm MR16. I'm also looking forward to the proposed Solar Map changes.

Edited May 22, 2015 by MrBubbleSS

[BlueQuail]

And most importantly that   Warframe is  a fun game , one that 's good but will never be great with alot of meh content that is best ignored / burn through asap .  Enjoy it while  at the same time don't ever expect it to get better .  

Nothing is more disappointing than when you give up hope that the devs will make the game better.

[Siilk]

/signed

 

Played since early open beta, took a break for a year and came back and I feel the same way OP does. A lot of content added, which is a good thing but but most of it does not change gameplay in a meaningful way. Some changes were actualy harmful for the game(melee, godawful interface, unnecessary complicated modding etc). Better stealth mechanics(including stealth weapons) are ok but stealth gameplay still feels like an ad-hok thing, there are barely any game missions that benefit from being stealth. Social features and PvP are probably another positive thing(can't say for sure as I'm not a fan of this stuff and treat Warframe as a single-player game) but again, it doesn't add much to core game mechanics.

 

So yes, Warframe is an ok game, probably even a good one(it scores a lot of additional points for style and in-universe lore, including orokin language) but it seems it will never be a great game it could've been. Let's hope the next game in Tenno universe will. Just imagine an open-world action-RPG in this setting...

[Mathemagics]

Hope for the best and prepare for the worst.

[jonnin]

I also disliked archwing ...  can't seem to get into it as no mods ever drop, the mobs just park and shoot at you with no skill,  the HUD is horrible (tiny . to aim surrounted by EPIC MEGA HUGE crap that makes it hard to find said dot )  and its generally all hype and no substance.    They need to refine arch before adding shark...  IMHO...

 

However the core ground combat is pretty darn good.   The removal of frame skills eating up mod space and resources was an improvement.  The stance cards on weapons, adding mod capacity, was an improvement.  Syndicates/rep were a good thing in many ways, though it needs to be added to and increased (currently, only a tiny # of weapons have mods, every weapon should have a rep-mod, or at least all the higher end weapons should -- not a single gun I use is listed). The GUI/UI changes are moot -- it may annoy some people but it has zero real impact on game play.  I can do everything that needs doing from the escape key in my ship without a lot of fuss.   Melee is fine -- you can one-shot kill most anything in the game with a slide-spin or wall whack, what more do you want?? Melee is arguably better than guns in terms of raw dps (not that it matters as frame ability spam is all anyone uses). There have been nerfs and changes too, but all in all,  the majority of the game has not changed much and far more changes were positive than negative. 

[(PSN)CowboyJeff72]

As a new player, I am enjoying the game immensely. Now, part of that is that it is shiny and new for me and the other part is that I haven't seen the changes spoken of to know if they are better or worse than previous updates. So from a new player perspective, here is my two cents on what I have seen so far.

 

Points are personal views and reflect nothing factual from DE. These are just my thoughts.

 

1) Great community. While not a game play mechanic, this is an important aspect of any game that offers team/cooperative play. From what I have seen here and in game, the players at least are respectful, helpful, and friendly. Obviously not all (bad apples in any group), but the majority are top notch when it comes to being noob friendly (which in and of itself, helps to grow a game).

 

2) Can't agree more with the statement about Archwing play and mechanics above. Was the hardest quest to complete solo from a new player stance. Targeting reticle (while meant to look like that of an aircraft) is too large and does not function properly and the mini map system does not work as well for this portion of the game. If this is to become a more integral part of the game, it needs a LOT of tweaking.

 

3) Missions/quests need more attention.You should be able to play through any game without having to do so much farming. You shouldn't need to own every frame/weapon in a game to "complete" it. Now, this being a "work in progress" I'm not sure how they could address this right now, but a linear solo play through option would be nice in the future. 

 

4) Mod mechanics. Now I don't work at DE, but I can almost guarantee that it was set up this way to draw in or appeal to the Magic/deck building card game players out there. Having played a lot of table top games over the years, I can tell you this is common practice for a lot of companies to give this type of system a try. The mod cards even look a lot like Magic cards to me. LOL I personally don't mind it, but it definitely needs a little refining as it is entirely too much of a project to manage mods currently. I don't mind a rare being hard to find, but I don't need a million copies of a common either before I find one. It would also be nice if the system had a mod filter based on your frame/weapon load out that dropped things useful to that configuration at least. 

 

5) Kubrows! Now, this is one of my personal favorite parts of the game. I like the fact that they do require more care and upkeep than sentinels. The mods are useful and fit the breeds well. The breeding system allows for a lot of variety which is a plus. My only pet peeve here is the cost of stabilizers. It is ridiculously high! I don't mind doing it, but honestly, it takes NOTHING to upkeep a sentinel, but I have to drop 75K credits on stabilizers?!?!? DE should address this as it is way too much. I don't mind the mechanic, the idea of it, or how it fits into the ethos. But I would like to see the cost drastically reduced. Given the cost of imprinting, limit on eggs, RNG of the breeding, and other factors involved in Kubrow care, 75K is just not a fair price. 

 

6) My biggest pet peeve with the game currently, the Relay! The fact I have to sit through a load screen and ship docking every time I practice or test if I want to go back into the Relay is tedious. The test should begin and end at the station. Period. 

 

7) Wall running/acrobatics. These need to be polished. They are fun, but they are so jittery sometimes its hard to get your Tenno to do what you want to do. Cool idea, just needs better execution.

 

I think that's really about it. All in all, I am having a blast with this game and appreciate the efforts of DE and the other players to make it a great experience. I hope to be talking about what I wrote here in the future as things that "once were" like some of you more veteran players.

Edited May 27, 2015 by (PS4)CowboyJeff72

[jonnin]

For the new guy above...

 

3) you do not.   You need to reach rank 30 with a few frames, weapons, sentinels, kubrow, ...  which increases your mastery rank, but you can get to a mastery rank that allows you to USE anything in the game and do all that needs to be done with just a few items.   You can get 4 or so warframes quickly from drops,  you can build countless weapons from the market (credits only, no plat required stuff).   You can build several sentinels pretty early on too, with an established dojo the number of items you can make goes up significantly, again just need credits and crafting materials.  It seems like a lot at first but within a month I think I had 4 warframes --- oberon, the parts just drop off mobs,  rhino, from an early boss,  and I built one from my dojo after those...  rhino is a must have as it makes farming easier (it is virtually immortal at low levels).

 

4) Fuse duplicates.   You can fuse any mod into any other mod.   The mods are organized by tabs, so you only view a small subset at a time, you can do that from the mods menu, look at the little icons on the bar across the top.   And when you mod an item, you only see the ones you can use on that item listed to install.   Rare mods are hard to get....  Ive played for 2 years nearly and still have big gaps.  And that is OK -- people worked hard to get the rare stuff,  whereas I play casually.

 

5) perspective.   Kubrow stabalizers last for DAYS each.  You get 7 at a time, which is at least 21 days worth.  In 21 days, you can't make 75K?   That is the problem with being low ranked and new ---  kubrow are introduced too early IMHO and new players get one before they can afford it.    I make 50k doing an alert (25, 35k payout + drops )  5 times  or 10k a pop for single run alerts.   Kubrow can pay for themselves ... once you can open lockers, go to jupiter and open every locker you see.  It *is* a lot of money when you first start out, but it is not much money per day after you can do some of the tougher alerts and higher payout jobs.   You won't like this but my advice is to freeze your dog until you can afford it, use a dethcube for now.

 

7) Mostly takes practice.  Because you can do so much with only 3 buttons, its easy to confuse the controls and do the wrong thing.  

Edited May 27, 2015 by jonnin

[Evanescent]

Very very subjective and pessimistic point of view. I think the game has improved immensely over the last two years.

Don't feed new players this trash.

[(PSN)CowboyJeff72]

For the new guy above...

 

3) you do not.   You need to reach rank 30 with a few frames, weapons, sentinels, kubrow, ...  which increases your mastery rank, but you can get to a mastery rank that allows you to USE anything in the game and do all that needs to be done with just a few items.   You can get 4 or so warframes quickly from drops,  you can build countless weapons from the market (credits only, no plat required stuff).   You can build several sentinels pretty early on too, with an established dojo the number of items you can make goes up significantly, again just need credits and crafting materials.  It seems like a lot at first but within a month I think I had 4 warframes --- oberon, the parts just drop off mobs,  rhino, from an early boss,  and I built one from my dojo after those...  rhino is a must have as it makes farming easier (it is virtually immortal at low levels).

 

4) Fuse duplicates.   You can fuse any mod into any other mod.   The mods are organized by tabs, so you only view a small subset at a time, you can do that from the mods menu, look at the little icons on the bar across the top.   And when you mod an item, you only see the ones you can use on that item listed to install.   Rare mods are hard to get....  Ive played for 2 years nearly and still have big gaps.  And that is OK -- people worked hard to get the rare stuff,  whereas I play casually.

 

5) perspective.   Kubrow stabalizers last for DAYS each.  You get 7 at a time, which is at least 21 days worth.  In 21 days, you can't make 75K?   That is the problem with being low ranked and new ---  kubrow are introduced too early IMHO and new players get one before they can afford it.    I make 50k doing an alert (25, 35k payout + drops )  5 times  or 10k a pop for single run alerts.   Kubrow can pay for themselves ... once you can open lockers, go to jupiter and open every locker you see.  It *is* a lot of money when you first start out, but it is not much money per day after you can do some of the tougher alerts and higher payout jobs.   You won't like this but my advice is to freeze your dog until you can afford it, use a dethcube for now.

 

7) Mostly takes practice.  Because you can do so much with only 3 buttons, its easy to confuse the controls and do the wrong thing.  

All true, my points were just views from one new player. I'm sure there are hundreds of opinions on just about every aspect of the game.

 

On point 4. I'm not saying that they shouldn't have rares or that you should get the most powerful drops every mission. Just saying that there are way too many overall (personal opinion of course). I think there are plenty of mods that could be done away with all together. And yes, you can fuse mods, but I'd rather have low level mods I can use vs. a ton of mods I have to fuse and spend the credits to do so. The tab system does go a long way to help sort, but even then, it doesn't tell you that you already have something installed somewhere else on things like the deconstructor (becuase it uses mods you may use elsewhere) until you go to leave the menu. Again, not a bad system, just unwieldy and could use a little streamline, nothing major. Most of this is just wishful thinking and personal opinion anyway.

 

As a side note on point 5. While you say perspective, you also offer the other side of the equation. So it could be balanced one of two ways, either reduce the cost or move the Kubrow quest further into the quest rotation for when players have more options to produce credits. Either way would work fine. Personally, I think downgrading the price would be a better choice simply as (for me at least) I see the Kubrow as a new player draw element of the game. Its something to get players excited about and (again at least for me) they are more fun than the sentinels. But excellent point on how much of a drain they can be when you are still upgrading weapons and mods. 

Edited May 27, 2015 by (PS4)CowboyJeff72

[StinkyPygmy]

 

I don't know where to begin.

OP has a few valid points presented in the worst way possible.

The rest is redonk.

When did opinions become facts?

[BubblesTheBlob]

-snip-

 

Void missions are a great source of credits and you can get them pretty early on. They aren't the fastest or easiest for new players, but T1 void is still reasonably easy to do a few days (real-time, not game-time) out of the gate if you play regularly. Even better is that T1 void missions often drop other void keys so a single T1S key can take you on 2, 3, maybe even 4 different missions.

 

Very very subjective and pessimistic point of view. I think the game has improved immensely over the last two years.

Don't feed new players this trash.

 

Optimistic, yet realistic, as I said above. This game has its fair share of bugs and faults, but the gameplay itself has been, is, and always will be tight. Movement will always be fast, and a crit-build Dread will always be OP, and archwings will still be really awesome despite their lack of substantial content (Asteroid Belt locale DE pls). Some of the bugs (like AI running in circles) even add a little charm to the game.

Edited May 27, 2015 by MrBubbleSS

[S0V3REiGN]

Did it occur to you that may be the new players like the game the way it is now? Otherwise why would they be playing it? 

[dashashou]

too all those that  fell ,  that i'm being too pessimistic plz re -read my last 2  lines 

 

"And most importantly that   Warframe is  a fun game , one that 's good but will never be great with alot of meh content that is best ignored / burn through asap .  Enjoy it while  at the same time don't ever expect it to get better . " 

 

Enjoy teh game as it is currently ; abandon the false hope that  it will blossom into something else . 

[SunBlade_ger]

Did it occur to you that may be the new players like the game the way it is now?

whenever i tell a new player "before update X it used to be like ..."

i always get the same replies: "awesome, i wish i could have seen that." or "why the heck did they change it?"

Otherwise why would they be playing it?

a few months ago i was asking that question myself.

by talking to some people i found two archetypes of warframe players:

hardcore gamer / fanboy (~10%)

DE needs to seriously screw up the game to loose those people, because they have accepted bugframe for what it is: a never finished game.

most are playing since day one and witnessed the dojo destruction, survived the archwing aftermath, stomached the kubrow killing and overcame the unapt UI.

mayflys (~80%)

they got interested in warframe because of space-ninjas, parkour and free-to-play. which lasts until they realize the extend of bugframe. most of them already wander from one game to the next, so DE just accelerates the inevitable.

after they play through a few updates, they can't take any more disappointment and quit. although they are the main income for DE they get screwed over the most.

so, either way new players will be all over warframe until they notice the steady decay, then they will either void their expectations or quit.