Valkyr Hysteria (Change Damage Reduction Mechanic)

[IfritKajiTora]

I know that many people will complain about it, but she cant stay immortal as it is now, Trinity had Blessing too and has been nerfed already, but Valkyr still is immortal.

I like to play with her but using Hysteria for immortality is bad, and I really dont like it.

How should hysteria work:
Hysteria is somekind of skill that uses Fury. So the more anger she is the more powerfull it should be.
Using Hysteria gives you 100% Damage reduction.
In time for example 2 seconds reduction of damage will fall from 100% to 95%.
To make Valkyr anger you need to hit enemies with melee while in Hysteria, each hit will add 2-3% damage reduction.

This will nerf Valkyr but she can still be Immortal if you attack with melee just like with furry. The most important is to use that skill if many enemies are near you, if you will just spam like that hysteria and just run around, her anger will fall down so she can die.

[Bab8s]

Hysteria is not comparable to pre-nerf blessing. Blessing gave the entire team invincibility from anywhere on the map. Players could continue to use their weapons and abilities as normal, but they could not die. Hysteria only effects Valkyr, and it restricts her to a low damage melee weapon. 

 

So I don't really think Hysteria is in need of change. That being said, this is actually a great idea. If Hysteria had to be changed (it doesn't), this is probably the way I would like it to be

[(PSN)Artennos]

So, because Trinity got nerfed Valkyr should be too? Awesome argument you have OP! *sarcasm*

 

 

Valkyr's fine. Stop trying to ruin the fun for others. Last but not least, enough with nerf threads! Start asking for buffs instead! 

 

 

Btw, something I don't understand is why in a PvE game, someone being immortal for a couple seconds would change anything on your gameplay. You're not even playing against a Valkyr, you have a Valkyr team mate that can aid you, and you still complain... sounds stupid, IMO!

Edited May 22, 2015 by (PS4)Artennos

[VampirePirate]

oh look.  another one.

 

If you don't like Hysteria, don't use it.

[IfritKajiTora]

So, because Trinity got nerfed Valkyr should be too? Awesome argument you have OP! *sarcasm*

Not because of that, but because of being immortal is stupid, I know you people like OP things, but this is not the way it should be. Many people play Path Of Exile because its stupid game where you make build for one skill and spam it all the time the whole game, until it is nerfed or you find more OP spammable skill *facepalm*

 

 

oh look.  another one.

 

If you don't like Hysteria, don't use it.

I see you dont have a good argument. Stupid arguments like always.

I guess you talk the similar arguments in job too xD:

Boss you dont like how I maked my job? Then do it yourself.

Ok. You are fired.

[SysteMachine]

Well, for now, Valkyr doesn't need any kind of nerf. The enemy are though after some time you are in a mission.

Let's nerf the enemy scaling and THEN Valkyr's Hysteria.

DE knows very well that after some time you can resist only with immortality or spamming your abilities.

I can't find any difference between using hysteria or spamming any other ability.

Also, Hysteria forces you to a low damage weapon. You are useless damage-wise. And Hysteria allows you to take a breath, just like any other CC ability.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

People may hate this...

(Trying to be open-minded, personally I don't like Hysteria's finite melee mod/weapon scalability nor how it tenders almost all Defensive mods/stats irrelevant...)

But for sake of making the current Hysteria more Team-friendly and Risk vs. Reward

This suggestion retains:

-Immortality

-Aura Damage at end of Ability duration

-Claws and locked to melee only

Suggestion:

When Hysteria is active An aura (20meter base at max rank) that Aggros all enemies in range causing them to direct all damage to Valkyr and to rush her. (Like she is an escaped Hysterical mental patient in a ward and thus high-priority)

All enemy damage delivered while Aura is up will be applied if any enemy is present when ability ends*

This will allow Valkyr to draw-fire to offer some protection: possibly to buy time for Defense objective to not take any damage.

Increased Range would increase Aggro/Team utility, but would increase chance of dying when ability ends since all damage would be delayed if any enemy is still alive in aura.

[VinnyBoy]

I suggested a thing about keeping her invincibility but having the stacked damage slowly applied to her.
My suggestion was not popular.

[Ronyn]

Hysteria is not comparable to pre-nerf blessing.

No it isn't. How about comparing it to pre-nerf Iron Skin.

Iron skin was 15 seconds of invincibility with no weapon penalty. People said it was too strong.

Hysteria is 30 seconds of invincibility, plus lifesteal, but is melee only. People say that is ok....

Or how about pre-nerf snow globe. It use to be invincible for a set number of seconds...now it has limits.

 

So, because Trinity got nerfed Valkyr should be too?

Not exactly. The question is why is it that Valkyr get's to retain her invincibility if they are pulling it from every other frame? 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You guys don't see an obvious double standard going on here?

 

Valkyr's fine. Stop trying to ruin the fun for others. Last but not least, enough with nerf threads! Start asking for buffs instead! 

Btw, something I don't understand is why in a PvE game, someone being immortal for a couple seconds would change anything on your gameplay. You're not even playing against a Valkyr, you have a Valkyr team mate that can aid you, and you still complain... sounds stupid, IMO!

 

oh look.  another one.

If you don't like Hysteria, don't use it.

Are you guys at all familiar with how class balance works?

Yes, there is supposed to be balance in pve games. It's about ensuring that the player has multiple options of approximately the same viability. 

And yes, both buffs and nerfs are required in order to reach the desired median.

 

If you're going to defend invincibility fine. But you have to be fair about it.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Ronyn

[VinnyBoy]

Again, in my other topic, a recurring argument saying that hysteria is just fine was that real valkyr players didnt build around it because the other abilities were better because hysteria wasn't effective.
Maybe I misunderstood the whole deal, but that's what I think.

[Ronyn]

Again, in my other topic, a recurring argument saying that hysteria is just fine was that real valkyr players didnt build around it because the other abilities were better because hysteria wasn't effective.

Maybe I misunderstood the whole deal, but that's what I think.

Wait..so your argument is that hysteria is fine because it isn't effective?

If it isn't effective doesn't that mean it needs some work?

[Buzkyl]

If you don't like Hysteria, don't use it.

 

 

This is one of the poorest reasons for defending  a change on the forums.

 

Ignoring it isn't going to make it go away.

 

 

Anyway i support removing the invincibility as it takes all form of risk outside using the skill. Just to quote myself.

 

 

Then that gives it even more reason to be changed. Beserkers are high risk/high reward. Hysteria remove any form of risk and it's reward is lower than just running warcry valkyr with a dcent melee weapon.

You can't escape that it's a bad ability and it's invincibility (which is a crutch) at this point doesn't make it seem any more appealing.

Remove the invincibility, but buff the ability considerably. A straight invulnerablity actually clashes against her warcry, which buffs her tankiness and melee speed.

Take the lifesteal, move it to when she attacks when channeling with it. WHile procs won't affect her and she won't be kock down her god mode is replaced by a scaling damage resistance inversely Properotional to her hP, meaning the closer she is to dying, the tougher it is to kill her. This can also work with the damage hysteria deals, it inceases as her hP goes down. Now she behaves like a true beserker, at her peak on the brink of death but easily able to tear you apart.

[VinnyBoy]

Wait..so your argument is that hysteria is fine because it isn't effective?

If it isn't effective doesn't that mean it needs some work?

Thats what THEY were saying to counter my argument that it needs a change.

[Otaiken]

Warcry with the augument + good melee weapon, combined with Valkyr's stats make for much better melee build than Hysteria does. And if you ever get in trouble use Paralysis and channel for the finisher for quick (and safe) health refill.

 

I think that's a shame. I would prefer Hysteria to be risk/reward ability that greatly boosts your damage as you expose yourself to danger.

 

Look at Chroma's Vex Armor. When you take damage your offensive stats greatly increase. That is a berserker-like ability . I would like something like that for Valkyr. If only I could swap that ability in instead of Hysteria and enjoy melee playstyle with cat ears and a character that doesn't take up half of my screen.

 

Hysteria is mostly revive/oh S#&$! button as it stands now.

 

 

Also, why do Valkyr's abilities have such ridiculous cast times? Especially Warcry feels slow as hell for an ability with rather short duration. Just my offtopic pet peeve with Valkyr.

Edited May 23, 2015 by LocoWithGun

[Ronyn]

Thats what THEY were saying to counter my argument that it needs a change.

uhm...alright. Nevermind.

[S3EK3R]

Like others said before, Hysteria restricts us to a low dmg melee weapon. It's only used for revving and when I have less than 100 HP.

You simply cannot compare Trinity and Valkyr in terms on invincibility.

 

It needs a reword that's for sure, but do not compare it to pre-nerf Blessing.

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

I see you dont have a good argument. Stupid arguments like always.

I guess you talk the similar arguments in job too xD:

Boss you dont like how I maked my job? Then do it yourself.

Ok. You are fired.

Wanna hear a couple good arguments?

Hysterias claws come with MASSIVE dps dropps (a maximized valkyr, allready dealing with -duration and -range does around 1-2/3 compared to a regular valkyr, on a as mentioned weak weapon+stance)

Maximizing it leaves you with -range, disabling all of her group utility skills. The weapon disables melee utility as well(Warcry+paralysis+ScindoP with TR= living hell for enemys in melee and ability range.)

Invincibility also means missing energy management (whats also a thing for the frame with the highest armor rating in the game.)

You can't toggle hysteria, what leaves you in this weak state for up to a straight minute.

Seriously. The high base time gives you the option to play it on stock- minus duration and the ability itself has a little nische in her overall set as defensive ability, giving you room for stuff like hacking or rezzing. It is that aside probably one of the most unrewarding ultimates in the game.

I'd be in for a rework anytime but NOT for a nerf. Nerfing the only aspekt that gives this ability a right to exist is just stupid.

Edited May 23, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

I hate this thread !! and Hysteria has a horrible backlash effect. It high lights enemies that are near you, and if they are not dead by the end of the ability, valkyr takes damage. so its not such a great move 25 waves in in t4 def

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

I hate this thread !! and Hysteria has a horrible backlash effect. It high lights enemies that are near you, and if they are not dead by the end of the ability, valkyr takes damage. so its not such a great move 25 waves in in t4 def

So it wasn't my immagination.....

This bull was actually buffed and re-nerfed cause of people like OP here. Only adding another downside to hysteria...

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

• Valkyr is not immune to Eximus energy drains or the small energy drains from enemies linked to Ancient Disrupters. However, Nauseous Crawler disables have no effect on her.

Enemies within this aura are highlighted; should any enemy remain highlighted as Hysteria expires, Valkyr will be dealt 7.5% of the total amount of damage she received while Hysteria was active.

Edited May 23, 2015 by (PS4)Akuma_Asura_

[Ronyn]

I hate this thread !! and Hysteria has a horrible backlash effect. It high lights enemies that are near you, and if they are not dead by the end of the ability, valkyr takes damage. so its not such a great move 25 waves in in t4 def

 

• Enemies within this aura are highlighted; should any enemy remain highlighted as Hysteria expires, Valkyr will be dealt 7.5% of the total amount of damage she received while Hysteria was active.

 

I'm well aware of that supposed backlash effect and to be honest with you I have never actually had it do much damage (if any) to me in practice. I kill level 80 enemies with her without any fear of repercussion.

 

The energy drain issue is the only thing that has ever given me any trouble.

 

So it wasn't my immagination.....

This bull was actually buffed and re-nerfed cause of people like OP here. Only adding another downside to hysteria...

Hysteria was always supposed to be a risk reward thing.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Ronyn

[(PSN)CoolD2108]

Hysteria was always supposed to be a risk reward thing.

Sure was but this feat was deleted shortly after release cause of the allready existing flaws.

Berserk Valkyr > Hysteria valkyr.

Dps+protection+CC > Less dps+a chance for better protection+no CC at all.

Now they addet it again and people still complain.

Seriously. Hysteria is in dire need of a rework. It would be much better placed as buff to the existing playstyle instead of offering a seperate playstyle. It still kinda works out for her but its still a joke for a Ultimate.

But people don't ask for reworks. They are instead split between accepting it as it is and hating it as it is. So all they do is complain and asking for nerfs.

There was this guy in another thread that had a great rework idea. Addet to this->final result:

-------

Hysteria would basicly keep the dmg multiplier but it would act like a buff, no claws, no immortality.

It would buff your armor and Critical chance/damage further depending on the health you loose. Basicly 400/600 life-> 200 x Y% = Z% buff. Y is influenced by power strength. The values are something i'd leave in the hands of DE.

-------

^this is something i could support, offering protection and damage on her overall playstyle.

(Btw, if you like this idea then feel free to take the credit and put it into a seperate thread. Eng isn't exactly my first language so my threads don't seem to get much support.)

Edited May 23, 2015 by (PS4)CoolD2108

[(PSN)Akuma_Asura_]

I'm well aware of that supposed backlash effect and to be honest with you I have never actually had it do much damage (if any) to me in practice. I kill level 80 enemies with her without any fear of repercussion.

 

The energy drain issue is the only thing that has ever given me any trouble.

 

Hysteria was always supposed to be a risk reward thing.

 

Okay lets say your killing theses lvl 80 with hysteria but even if you leave one alive and they are in your range as the ability ends they will one shot you. which is why hysteria in my opinion doesn't need a nerf but more of a dependent nature to your melee weapons mods, in term of beserker, reach mods, dmg type ect

Edited May 23, 2015 by (PS4)Akuma_Asura_

[(PSN)MrNishi]

WarCry+Paralysis+Scindo Prime(Crit-build)+Hysteria is stronger damage than Tempo Royals Scindo Prime IF Paralysis is activating the single target finishers.

Hysteria loses out on DPS when it is not single target due to poor melee combo+lack of range+ not being able to utilize elemental bonuses.

Hysteria claws unfortunately make Valkyr inept at killing.

I don't want Hysteria to be an exact clone of Vex Armor. (Although it would have been nice if the Scorn/Fury was used as a rework for Hysteria before Chroma was released)

-Her Claws being tied to small selection of Melee weapon stats and mods, is hurting the the ability damage wise.

-Synergy with her other ability's is poorly implemented: her ability that as a whole scales the best with Hysteria is Paralysis and that is only because she cannot take outside damage to her low shields so Paralysis can technically use it's full effect. Ripline could be considered close to using Synergy as the long animation that leaves you vulnerable does not matter with Hysteria immortality.

-WarCry's armor boost is negated by Hysteria's invincibility as our mods that cater to her innate high armor ratings: Vitality/Vigor, Rage, Quick-Thinking, & Steel Fiber

Narrow Minded builds kill the utility of her other abilities, but remove the risk mechanic of Hysteria as the delayed damage aura is greatly reduced.

The best part of Hysteria is immunity to CC and most status effects.

The damage boost is okay and the life-steal is subpar to a non-Hysteria melee Life-Strike build.

If DE is to make Hysteria worth using damage wise with claws: it needs an overhaul and preferably to only scale with Warframe mods and not rely on melee weapon choice. Life-steal percentage should be larger. Inviincibilty being replaced by Damage reduction would be preferred over Armor boost if she is not immune to status. If she retains status immunity and CC immunity then an Armor boost per enemies killed would be very useful. Also enemies killed should increase Claw damage or crit chance/damage.

-If doing above there could be an augment that allows Claw hits to have double the Combo multiplier so normal 2x would be 4x multiplier. Granting larger combo hit counter multiplier at lower combo hit requirements.

If DE is going to keep her Invincibility she should gain team useful Utility and actually have a larger Aura radius that forces damage be only applied to her: that would have risk reward and also allow for Defense/Tank utility.

Those are 2 opposing approaches of Hysteria that retain Claws but 1 is more Offensive(Removal of Invincibility) and the other is more Utility/Tank-defensive(Retains Invincibility)

With the current Hysteria it should be less work to to just make the Aura have more utility. The other suggestion would be more of another Hysteria rework.

[Ronyn]

Okay lets say your killing theses lvl 80 with hysteria but even if you leave one alive and they are in your range as the ability ends they will one shot you. 

When up against tough enemies I can still avoid taking damage from the backlash because I can always hop away real fast when its about to end. Occasionally I might loose like 100 hp from one I missed but again....its easy to avoid as long as I am not just ignoring the timer.

Since I am immune to knockdowns while hysteria is up there is really nothing stopping me from getting some distance , re-activating it, then going back in.

Also, with Valkyr's extremely high armor, not even most level 80's can one shot her.

A few minutes ago I went to the sim. In the sim I set myself up against ten level 80 heavy gunners. As long as I am staying mobile I can replenish the energy I need (rage mod) and recast hysteria before they can kill me.

 

Point is-In my experience the only trouble that ever out does hysteria is energy drain.

 

which is why hysteria in my opinion doesn't need a nerf but more of a dependent nature to your melee weapons mods, in term of beserker, reach mods, dmg type ect

I agree that it should be more intertwined with the melee weapons.

 

Whether or not it needs a nerf is...well honestly my issue with the whole thing is that I sense a double standard on the design.

as I mentioned before, several other powers that had invincibility (not just blessing but iron skin and snow globe too) have all lost there invincibility.

I think DE needs to be more consistent with how things work.