Banshee's 4Th Ability: Suicide

[MonsterPig]

Let's talk about it.

 

Without a Frost's Globe or Trinity spamming heals while you're grounded for about 6 seconds completely vulnerable to damage, Banshee's all across the solar system will be dying for the cost of 100 energy. It's basically suicide.

 

Already I'm experiencing trouble with staying alive or avoiding damage. One example: Sound-quaking at the pod's location in a mobile defense mission is obviously the most strategic location in order to damage as many possible enemies, however, those lancers lined up on each rail-side are killing you fast. A globe would be helpful in this situation. Actually, a globe is pretty much required every time a Banshee needs to ult.

 

Banshee and Frost have always been best friends, especially during the Fusion MOA Extermination Event, but now Frost is Big Daddy more than ever. 

 

Solo Banshee players will be even more affected by this recent change (unless they want to play a more patient stealth game). Using your ult when you are the only target will have serious consequences.

 

I realize the previous ult was actually bugged. So this change was actually a bug fix. However, I believe Banshee's Soundquake would have received similar criticism if it was initially correct, especially considering that many other Warframe's ults grant them invincibility.

My suggestions:

 

-Revert it the way it was

 

-Add resistance during Soundquake

 

-Add invincibility during initial start-up

 

-Make it so only Banshee's shields are exposed somehow because she is using an ability (could be explained in some way related to technology, etc) so when they are completely depleted the damage stops. Maybe add a few seconds of health invulnerability  so you don't automatically take hp damage every time you get out of Soundquake.

 

What are your thoughts Tennos? 

Edited May 18, 2013 by TrevV

[HellishWind]

i hate NERFSS     I WANT BUFFFFFSS ONLY

[GottFaust]

It's not really that bad.  Not nearly as bad as when they removed Saryn's invulnerability from contagion.  That move actually requires her to get in melee range to be effective.

 

My suggestion is to starting getting creative with your positioning.  The range of Sound Quake is still huge and it still ignores line-of-sight, so you can easily sit up on obstacles and behind cover when using it.  Sure, it's no longer a "jump in the middle of hordes of lvl 187 ancients and perma-stun whem while invulnerable to all damage" move, but the "kill every weak target in a very, very large area" effect is still in place.

[Bennyworld]

Really - they stopped banshee's invulnerability!

OH GOD - I am in loads of trouble D:

What did I miss!

[Nagapur]

Removing the invulnerability is really a bit too much for Banshee to handle.

 

I can understand the lower dmg but this...

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

Just claimed my Banshee last night from the foundry...  Haven't had the chance to kill 400 per mission yet...  Will never know the joys...  =/

[Royce_Bracket]

Agreed. I've been killed multiple times during the long initial start up, a problem that only appeared with this nerf.

[MonsterPig]

Sure, it's no longer a "jump in the middle of hordes of lvl 187 ancients and perma-stun whem while invulnerable to all damage" move, but the "kill every weak target in a very, very large area" effect is still in place.

 

Those ancients must be controlled with chaos, because if you jumped in the middle of a horde of lvl 187 ancients, you are either getting disrupted, knocked back, touched by toxic, or dying as soon as it's over. If it were lvl 187 Corpus, the remaining would kill you in 1 or 2 shots.

Edited May 18, 2013 by TrevV

[ArticHood]

Agreed. I've been killed multiple times during the long initial start up, a problem that only appeared with this nerf.

+1

[GottFaust]

Those ancients must be controlled with chaos, because if you jumped in the middle of a horde of lvl 187 ancients, you are either getting disrupted, knocked back, touched with toxic, or dying as soon as it's over. If it were lvl 187 Corpus, the remaining would kill you in 1 or 2 shots.

Two words, one power: Sonic Boom.  If you don't understand, you might want to play with that power a bit more.  It's a lot more useful than people would have you believe.

 

Furthermore, while that was an extreme example, used for effect, I have both done it and seen squad mates do it without a Nyx to hold our hands.

 

I'm not saying that the removal of the invulnerability effect wasn't a large nerf.  It was, even if it was a bugfix, but it's not so bad as to make it guaranteed suicide or in any way, shape, or form useless.  You just have to position yourself more carefully now rather than just spamming 4 no matter where you are or what you're doing.

[Otaiken]

Two words, one power: Sonic Boom.  If you don't understand, you might want to play with that power a bit more.  It's a lot more useful than people would have you believe.

 

Furthermore, while that was an extreme example, used for effect, I have both done it and seen squad mates do it without a Nyx to hold our hands.

 

I'm not saying that the removal of the invulnerability effect wasn't a large nerf.  It was, even if it was a bugfix, but it's not so bad as to make it guaranteed suicide or in any way, shape, or form useless.  You just have to position yourself more carefully now rather than just spamming 4 no matter where you are or what you're doing.

 

My second frame is Saryn. Now Miasma (4) does more damage over shorter time, ignores armor, gets affected by both continuity and focus and she is completely invulnerable during it. How is Banshee balanced compared to that. And the range is either the same or slightly bigger now. Oh, and it can also be used without line of sight. So while Banshee now has to think about positioning, I guess that Saryn doesn't.

Edited May 18, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[XDeathCoreX]

Those ancients must be controlled with chaos, because if you jumped in the middle of a horde of lvl 187 ancients, you are either getting disrupted, knocked back, touched by toxic, or dying as soon as it's over. If it were lvl 187 Corpus, the remaining would kill you in 1 or 2 shots.

[Gatanotoah]

I don't really get how this got past QA. But I expect a buffback soon. This is a move designed to be used in the midst of battle and as of now, is the only ultimate to do so while leaving you vulnerable to my knowledge. This is just bad game design regarding it is also the ultimate with the longest time of having to stay immobile and exposed. I agree with the OP, Banshee is far too frail a Warframe to be tanking damage on high level defense missions, and that shouldn't be a requirement for her.

 

As a friendly reminder: Try to nerf stuff like this in waves next time. Reducing the damage first, and then removing invulnerability to see how it plays out. As of now, this is far too strong a nerf.

 

I agree with the lessened damage though.

[MonsterPig]

Two words, one power: Sonic Boom.  If you don't understand, you might want to play with that power a bit more.  It's a lot more useful than people would have you believe.

 

Furthermore, while that was an extreme example, used for effect, I have both done it and seen squad mates do it without a Nyx to hold our hands.

 

I'm not saying that the removal of the invulnerability effect wasn't a large nerf.  It was, even if it was a bugfix, but it's not so bad as to make it guaranteed suicide or in any way, shape, or form useless.  You just have to position yourself more carefully now rather than just spamming 4 no matter where you are or what you're doing.

 

I agree that Sonic Boom is a very useful skill and at little cost. I love it and use it often, but now I'm straying from the topic.

 

Although the requirement to place yourself in a safe position sounds more strategic, it won't be the solution to one annoying corpus sniper you didn't see who gets to shoot you for 6 seconds. To me, that seems cheap because I cannot move or cancel the quake.

[FryingSaucePan]

The strategy for soundquake placement in order to kill more enemies = more fun

 

Than...

 

The strategy for soundquake placement in order to take the least amount of damage.

[Datasaur]

I used to see a lot of banshee players run off to other side of map spamming their ult in (mobile) defence. Seems they are more likely to stay with group now. More teamwork to pull off these attacks sounds good to me.

 

What would be nice is if Banshee gets low target priority while using skill. Use it within group and you fine but run off alone and you might pay the price.

 

And a way to interrupt skill if necessary. Perhaps make it shorter too.

Edited May 18, 2013 by Datasaur

[Sixty5]

Its funny, I built Banshee as an AOE destruction machine, but I delayed claiming so i could get Volt, who I initially didn't like. to 30. Now I have realized just how much damage overload puts out, along with coming with invulnerability frames.

 

Doesn't bother me though, it just means that creative strategies will need to be employed, like flip melee with gram for massive AOE knocksown and stun and the hit Soundquake.

 

The nerf was justified however, longest casting Ulti, with large damage and full invulnerablity for the full duration does sound a tad overpowered.

[Gatanotoah]

I used to see a lot of banshee players run off to other side of map spamming their ult in (mobile) defence. Seems they are more likely to stay with group now. More teamwork to pull off these attacks sounds good to me.

Except if they stay with the group at the pod, they die when they use their ult now. Wandering off and looking for a place to hide or abusing the glitch to get into the reactor is now the only way to go.

[smithf]

My second frame is Saryn. Now Miasma (4) does more damage over shorter time, ignores armor, gets affected by both continuity and focus and she is completely invulnerable during it. How is Banshee balanced compared to that. And the range is either the same or slightly bigger now. Oh, and it can also be used without line of sight. So while Banshee now has to think about positioning, I guess that Saryn doesn't.

you do know that you are putting saryn on high profile for ... eh.. you know...

[MonsterPig]

Good point Datasaur, but what about solo banshee's? Also, I could do what you described with other Warframes such as Volt or Slash-Dashing Excalibur. With Banshee it was just a bit easier. Perhaps a resistance, but not full-on invincibility, could balance this and keep them closer to the team. 

[-HAKUNA-YOUR-TATAS-]

you do know that you are putting saryn on high profile for ... eh.. you know...

 

"...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn..." - Alfred Pennyworth

[MonsterPig]

 

Doesn't bother me though, it just means that creative strategies will need to be employed, like flip melee with gram for massive AOE knockdown and stun and the hit Soundquake.

 

The nerf was justified however, longest casting Ulti, with large damage and full invulnerablity for the full duration does sound a tad overpowered.

Sonic Boom would probably be more sufficient, but that's beside the point. The issue is not the damage from targets within Sonic Boom/melee/ gram AoE range. It's enemies outside the soundquake, incoming enemies that don't receive full damage, or stronger enemies outside your knockdown range who are not dying that can still attack you.

[LanCeAlot]

Glaive bounce on 1st enemy.
banshee 4th suicide.
rhino 2nd coating something white.

This time 6 mb update???

[Otaiken]

you do know that you are putting saryn on high profile for ... eh.. you know...

 

I still have hope for DE. Surely if they make one AoE ulti inferior to all other, the easiest solution is to buff it back to some extent. They certainly wouldn't just nerf all other ults so they're... level..... mother of god...

Edited May 18, 2013 by LocoWithGun

[Datasaur]

Good point Datasaur, but what about solo banshee's? Also, I could do what you described with other Warframes such as Volt or Slash-Dashing Excalibur. With Banshee it was just a bit easier. Perhaps a resistance, but not full-on invincibility, could balance this and keep them closer to the team. 

Some resistance sounds reasonable. Unless you're a Rhino of course. Then nothing but full invulnerability is acceptable hehe.