Weapon Comparator: Karak Wraith Vs Braton Prime

[Gr3vi3R]

Ok so... both images were taken from naked weapons:

 

 

 

Braton Prime seems superior ONLY against Infested due to its high Slash damage.

 

But if you run 4 Corrosive Projections Braton is Superior

1. True... but it's also true that a Viral Soma Prime then leaves Braton Prime at home when you run 4 CP.

2. When going solo with other Auras it seems like Karak Wraith is the Superior Weapon.

 

If you want, discuss, because I think that we all got blinded by the fact that Braton Prime is 35 damage against 30.

 

I tried to max them out but I think Warframe Builder is a bit bugged... see below, lol.

 

 

 

maybe I did something wrong ?

 

http://warframe-builder.com/Weapon_comparator

[Kthal]

You are failing to consider the extremely significant bonus damage brought by Slash procs, which IIRC factor in at 135% extra on top of the main hit spread over the next 10 seconds.

 

Basically, the Braton Prime's base damage makes it proc in a much more useful manner, and makes it one of the more interesting scaling weapons, as it's damage/time is not linear, but scales up massively if focused on a single target.

 

 

On a quick glance, yes, WFbuilder does seem to be having issues with the second Karak screenshot.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Kthal

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Braton's better in most areas and Braton also has slash DMG so you can proc corrosive/blast AND slash procs which are godly since they ignore armor

Braton Prime is the reason I'll never use my Gorgon Wraith, nor Karak Wraith when consoles obtain it

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Braton Prime is THE status weapon.

The only other weapon I'll focus some status chance on is Boltor Prime but that's because it can hybrid DPs and status

[Gr3vi3R]

There's no status build, those are raw dmg builds.

 

So basically, BP wins when it comes to make them bleed extreme levels?

Until then, at least ammo capacity favors KW?

Edited May 24, 2015 by Gr3vi3R

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

There's no status build, those are raw dmg builds.

So basically, BP wins when it comes to make them bleed?

Yes sir

Braton Prime suffers from "paper DPs"

Nobody actually tries the gun and would rather not use it

Without 4 CP braton prime will eventually deal higher DPs than anything, and this is due to an 85% chance to proc with all 4 status/DMG mods and thanks to those beautiful slash procs

And if anyone says "well you can throw status on anything then"..

Find me another weapon that can abuse slash procs and high status as well as the braton prime

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

There's no status build, those are raw dmg builds.

So basically, BP wins when it comes to make them bleed extreme levels?

Until then, at least ammo capacity favors KW?

Even if you're not using a status build, braton prime will beat it because of slash procs

And I'm talking in general, I'm not even talking about how slash procs ignore armor

[Stormandreas]

Braton Prime is THE status weapon.

The only other weapon I'll focus some status chance on is Boltor Prime but that's because it can hybrid DPs and status

Uh... Boar prime?

Boar Prime can get 100% status on EVERY pellet, making it the most superior status weapon.

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Uh... Boar prime?

Boar Prime can get 100% status on EVERY pellet, making it the most superior status weapon.

Can it get ridic slash procs?

Can it be shot from more than 10m?

I'm sorry op, I seem to be derailing the discussion

Boar loses out on DPs when using status mods, braton prime will actually reverse scale and will end up dealing more DPs WITH status mods than without status mods

Edited May 24, 2015 by (PS4)JiggaJazz

[Kthal]

To give you a sense of roughly how to build a Braton Prime, this (very subjectively optimized) is how I mod mine.

 

I use it for short burst of headshots, with the high Slash damage giving a good probability of extra damage, combined with the occasional Viral proc significantly weakening anything which survives a single burst, and High Voltage adding a bonus stun, but mostly more status chance.

 

For that ideal, 90% multishot, two 80% procs, and a 10% critical hit, on a headshot, that works out as:

326 x2 (multishot) x2 (Viral proc) x2.35 (Slash proc) x2 (Crit) x4 (Headshot)

Which gives an extremely uncommon (~1%), but very satisfying, 24,500 theoretical maximum damage, from a single shot, even before calculating resistances. (x1.5 = 36,800)

 

 

 

 

 

Uh... Boar prime?

Boar Prime can get 100% status on EVERY pellet, making it the most superior status weapon.

 

There are four weapons vying for the proccing crown.

 

Torid

Boar Prime

Strun Wraith

Braton Prime

 

Since they are all completely different weapons, with very similar proccing rates, there is no point comparing them.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Kthal

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

I rarely ever use braton prime but I know quite well how amazing it is if you're not using 4 CP

It easily out DPS'd syn GAM before the nerf once enemies went above lv 65

[Gr3vi3R]

http://warframe.wikia.com/wiki/Damage_2.0/Slash_Damage

 

Bleed: a DoT that inflicts 35% of your weapon or power's base damage per tick (7 ticks in 6 seconds).

 

6 seconds seems rather much when you have to burst in this game.

 

My curiosity to investigate came out with this Vid:

 

Unfortunately it's against Corpuses and not Grineer, I would have liked more to see how much.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Gr3vi3R

[FLSH_BNG]

Braton Prime is a clear choice against infested, but against other factions it's really a toss-up and personal preference. The damage dealt to the other factions has such a small difference that either weapon would be suitable.

 

Against the Corpus I'd likely pick the Karak Wraith over the Braton Prime, but if i already have the BP equiped, I'd not bother.

 

 

Additionally, the higher status chance and slash-weighted damage of the Braton Prime will get you more bleed procs for a little extra damage against all enemies, effectively negating the small damage advantage the Karak Wraith has.

 

In the end it's all down to personal preference; between these two weapons anyway. Most people who have both of these weapons will have others that they may prefer.

[Gr3vi3R]

Fact is, I also saw Burston:

 

And it seems like that until 70+(?) enemies die rather fast.

At 70+ like we could say that that Bleed procs is usefull? Or even 80+?

[Stormandreas]

Can it get ridic slash procs?

Can it be shot from more than 10m?

I'm sorry op, I seem to be derailing the discussion

Boar loses out on DPs when using status mods, braton prime will actually reverse scale and will end up dealing more DPs WITH status mods than without status mods

Yes and Yes. I've managed insane procs with the Boar no problem at all.

[Kthal]

Yes and Yes. I've managed insane procs with the Boar no problem at all.

 

The Boar Prime has less than 50% Slash physical base, so it is absolutely not worth modding purely for Slash procs. While they will happen occasionally, the elemental damage types are what will proc most reliably.

[Davoodoo]

In the end.

 

http://goo.gl/VS1LQj

14.5k dps

http://goo.gl/B7QCzI

16.5k dps

 

clip size and crits make a difference, karak wins in burst but loses in sustained due to reloads.

 

and when you put shred on both instead of vile,braton actually wins in burst too.

http://goo.gl/rO1cC6

18k

http://goo.gl/bCHzzP

18k

 

 

At 70+ like we could say that that Bleed procs is usefull? Or even 80+?

I would say they get useful around lvl200.

enemy need to live around 5 seconds for slash proc to deal considerable dmg, then you need to remember you will run viral which will reduce max hp to 50%.and even without status blaster build you will quickly proc it on any rapid fire weapon.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Davoodoo

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Yes sir

Braton Prime suffers from "paper DPs"

Nobody actually tries the gun and would rather not use it

Without 4 CP braton prime will eventually deal higher DPs than anything, and this is due to an 85% chance to proc with all 4 status/DMG mods and thanks to those beautiful slash procs

And if anyone says "well you can throw status on anything then"..

Find me another weapon that can abuse slash procs and high status as well as the braton prime

Melee....especially Tonbo

Heck even Obex does decent slash crits with 10% status

*yes there was a 74k non-crit

Edited May 24, 2015 by (PS4)MrNishi

[Sloan441]

The Karak Wraith is about 90% of a Braton Prime and both benefit from very similar builds.

 

The BratonP has the slight advantage from primarily slash damage as opposed to the KarakW having impact, which is a good status type for control, but a poor base damage when facing armor. That can be dealt with in a number of ways, leaving us with a 20k dps autorifle with high status as opposed to a 23k dps auto rifle with high status. Not a bad neighborhood to be in.

 

If you're saying the Karak Wraith is bad, you're ignorant of the way this stuff works and you should fix that. Of course, we've seen this sort of idiotic whining before and we'll see it again...

[ThePresident777]

Who has 10 seconds to wait for n enemy to bleed out?  10 seconds is a very very slow  and sluggish game, extremely poor action, like checkers.

[Gr3vi3R]

If we take the bleeding factor out, KW should be better since it's well rounded against every faction but Infesteds.

Anyway, 6 seconds.

 

Thing is, this:

 

Multiple instances of Bleed may be stacked on the same target. ^{[verify–concurrent or timer stacking?]}

 

The stack is about duration or damage?

That would make the bigger difference, but anyway, 35% of only slash damage? per second?

 

I wonder if it would be a noticeable damage.

 

- - -

 

Side question:

See the video of KW...

the guy went Radiation/Viral even against Corpuses up to Lv 80.

Is that combination better even against High Lv Corpuses?

Edited May 24, 2015 by Gr3vi3R

[(PSN)MrNishi]

If we take the bleeding factor out, KW should be better since it's well rounded against every faction but Infesteds.

Anyway, 6 seconds.

 

Thing is, this:

 

Multiple instances of Bleed may be stacked on the same target. ^{[verify–concurrent or timer stacking?]}

 

The stack is about duration or damage?

That would make the bigger difference, but anyway, 35% of only slash damage? per second?

 

I wonder if it would be a noticeable damage.

 

- - -

 

Side question:

See the video of KW...

the guy went Radiation/Viral even against Corpuses up to Lv 80.

Is that combination better even against High Lv Corpuses?

Bleed proc is 35% of all base damage not just 35% of slash only Damage.

So 35% of entire base damage + Serration + Heavy Caliber + Rifle Amp

Also multiplied by crit and headshot/weakpoint multipliers

[Kthal]

Bleed proc is 35% of all base damage not just 35% of slash only Damage.

So 35% of entire base damage + Serration + Heavy Caliber + Rifle Amp

Also multiplied by crit and headshot/weakpoint multipliers

 

In addition, the DOT ticks are not directly reduced by armour. They are always 35% of the initial hit, although that initial hit may be reduced itself.

[Gr3vi3R]

I looked at Damage 2.0 now, -15% Ferrite -50% Alloy

 

basically, it's a compensation, but you have to wait for the bleed.

Against Alloy I think not even that can save so much dmg reduction (luckily it's weak against radiation).

 

Im not even sure right now.

 

Can you look at my side question?

Edited May 24, 2015 by Gr3vi3R

[(PSN)JiggaJazz]

Yes and Yes. I've managed insane procs with the Boar no problem at all.

Lol so you're telling me you get slash procs a lot?

Even if you did the slash proccing DMG is so low that lol @ you for trying to act as if you're right