So, The Reasons Why 1 Shot In Wf Pvp Is Much More Op Than All Other Traditional Shooter Games

[cary2010haha]

Most 1 shot weapon in other Traditional shooter games are sawed-off shotgun, snipers, bows, WF just do the same, why it worst than others?

 

 

First, we move too far, distant is no more a problem for all shotguns, we move too fast.

the only down side of shotguns is nearly not apply in WF, that's why if a shotgun do 1 shot in WF will be much more powerful than in BF,CS,COD....

 

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Second, so how about the long distant one? We only have one 1 shot bow in game and it took long to charge, seem to be balance.

But look at all other game, these weapons are mostly take by slowest type of arms, means if them miss or be discover by enemy before they prepared, they hardly can run away.

 

And in WF? We copt. away, yes, no any speed de-buff with heavy weapons, we just need to charge up at the corner and pray for a lucky hit, if we miss, we copt. away.

And don't forget, pursue a heavy bow user take huge risk, you run straight into his charged bow. Every corner he have a 1 shot chance to kill you. And his shield charges every corner he escaped.

 

 

In BF4 ? if I can get close to 100M and sniper miss a shot, he signed up his death

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Third, most heavy weapon in other shooter game have trace every time you shoot it (like bf sniper have air rail, rpg have afterburn smoke, and alot noise), but our "one shot"weapon is nearly no trace, not even a red dot on the map. Totally silence.

 

 

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Fourth, most long range one shot weapon in other games have very low accurate when moving and un-zoomed, so that it balance the weapon, make it low effective on close range.

But in WF? move or not or even slide you have 100% accurate, zoom or not only barely affect it, that makes every one shot weapon coming to WF is going to be a all range weapon.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Cary2010haha

[Nighttide77]

Don't forget you can block with melee so you don't get one-shot, pretty much ever.

[cary2010haha]

Don't forget you can block with melee so you don't get one-shot, pretty much ever.

so you'll never kill a Bow user, can you kill someone copt. with melee?

 

So that is balance? Staring at each other, forever?

[Nighttide77]

so you'll never kill a Bow user, can you kill someone copt. with melee?

So that is balance? Staring at each other, forever?

Yes, you can. Slam attack, and/or chase. I've done it, and I've seen others do it to me.

[Nighttide77]

Also to throw into the equation is the gathering of energy and use of powers.

Volt's shield and Frost's snowglobe, last time I checked, all are impenetrable.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Nighttide77

[Epicagemo]

I think copter should only work when melee out and make quick melee a gun butt to the face

[cary2010haha]

Yes, you can. Slam attack, and/or chase. I've done it, and I've seen others do it to me.

so you are really bad at running V.V I have never, never, never be kill by a melee after the nerf.

 

 

 

Also to throw into the equation is the gathering of energy and use of powers.

Volt's shield and Frost's snowglobe, last time I checked, all are impenetrable.

Volt shield can be penetrate ,snowglobe not, but wat can you do, they just run away if you use power. I can even stealth flag inside the snowglobe if no MK1 or strun inside :P

Edited May 25, 2015 by Cary2010haha

[Nighttide77]

so you are really bad at running V.V I have never, never, never be kill by a melee after the nerf.

Perhaps you haven't gone up against enough players.

[Tsoe]

dont forget we are ninja

[-Kryptyk-]

well the thing about the pvp is that DE is trying to incorporate warframe mechanics into a system that already moves way too fast on its own.  Add on top of that the armor, shields, health, speed, etc of the frames, and how long it takes to kill something unless you have a bow and are lucky with it.  Melee has become drastically overpowered to where everyone uses it and hopes for the best, and standard weapons don't hit hard enough to compensate for the shields and health.  So yeah, everyone is turning to melee or bows.  The only skill in this PvP is well.... not much at all, it's just mod the fck out of your character and be a lucky sharpshooter or melee-er.  That's not PvP.  There's no tact in this, rarely do I see anyone using communication, rarely do I see coordination, it's just one massive frenzy of melee.  at least 80% of the time.  

[cary2010haha]

dont forget we are ninja

If this can be the solve, why they balance the game, ninja do every thing. No impossible to ninjas.

[-Edrick-]

Humbly speaking with no intention of offending you/anyone...Simply put you haven't PvP'd enough to know how to counter these bow users or even melee if anything.

 

There's always something OP in any game mode...

Its how you look at it...

  

Exploits in PvP will ALWAYS exist (no matter what game).  PvPers will ALWAYS try to find a way to kill more efficiently (whether DE meant for it or not)....much like how "PvE'ers" will ALWAYS try to find a way to make more gold or level faster or farm mats more efficiently--Then DE will try to fix it...but players will always try to find another way to make more gold etc; much like how they try to "balance" pvp...but players will always find a way to kill faster--and unfortunately those who fall victim to it repeatedly...will probably complain something is broken--maybe it is...idk).

 

But even if they "nerf" the one shot in PvP...what's to stop PvPErs to finding another way to "one-shot" players or kill them fast still?

 

Again, These "loot caves" or exploits  will always exist on both pvp and pve platforms because there will ALWAYS be those players trying to "figure" it out or figure out another way to win.

 

So in other words/summary...Just because a player gets killed a lot in PvP, it doesn't necessarily mean something is broken...it can also means something works (again, its all perspective). And in PvP learning how to "counter" (or use) those weapons (or type of players) is one of many parts of the challenges (and fun) in PvP...either use their weapon or find another to counter it ... or perhaps use your environment...or learn the sniping spots yourself so u know where ppl may camp and one shot u...there are tons of strategies and play styles to learn and try or do...that's what makes PvP fun in general...its pretty much unpredictable and can technically be a different fight/match every time.  

 

If anything, there should be an added ranking or rating system/matching making implemented where newer players can fight new players and veterans can fight other veterans (sort of like the arena system in WoW).  This way it wont feel as one sided. It will help separate the "casual PvPers" from the "hardcore PvPers." 

[cary2010haha]

Humbly speaking with no intention of offending you/anyone...Simply put you haven't PvP'd enough to know how to counter these bow users or even melee if anything.

 

There's always something OP in any game mode...

Its how you look at it...

  

Exploits in PvP will ALWAYS exist (no matter what game).  PvPers will ALWAYS try to find a way to kill more efficiently (whether DE meant for it or not)....much like how "PvE'ers" will ALWAYS try to find a way to make more gold or level faster or farm mats more efficiently--Then DE will try to fix it...but players will always try to find another way to make more gold etc; much like how they try to "balance" pvp...but players will always find a way to kill faster--and unfortunately those who fall victim to it repeatedly...will probably complain something is broken--maybe it is...idk).

 

But even if they "nerf" the one shot in PvP...what's to stop PvPErs to finding another way to "one-shot" players or kill them fast still?

 

Again, These "loot caves" or exploits  will always exist on both pvp and pve platforms because there will ALWAYS be those players trying to "figure" it out or figure out another way to win.

 

So in other words/summary...Just because a player gets killed a lot in PvP, it doesn't necessarily mean something is broken...it can also means something works (again, its all perspective). And in PvP learning how to "counter" (or use) those weapons (or type of players) is one of many parts of the challenges (and fun) in PvP...either use their weapon or find another to counter it ... or perhaps use your environment...or learn the sniping spots yourself so u know where ppl may camp and one shot u...there are tons of strategies and play styles to learn and try or do...that's what makes PvP fun in general...its pretty much unpredictable and can technically be a different fight/match every time.  

 

If anything, there should be an added ranking or rating system/matching making implemented where newer players can fight new players and veterans can fight other veterans (sort of like the arena system in WoW).  This way it wont feel as one sided. It will help separate the "casual PvPers" from the "hardcore PvPers." 

I think you not even read the full post, I don;t say there should not be 1 shot weapons, but the problem now is heavy long range weapon have nearly no trade off compare to all other CQB weapons.

Thats why people even use the heavy bow as shotguns

 

[oinkah]

To be honest, I kinda like this emphasis on unusual weapons. There are way too many shooters where assault rifles dominate everything. Let Warframe be it's own thing.

[cary2010haha]

To be honest, I kinda like this emphasis on unusual weapons. There are way too many shooters where assault rifles dominate everything. Let Warframe be it's own thing.

well no speed de-buff when using, no trace after shot, no red dot, no noise, move&shoot accurate 100%

 

and it do 1 shot kill in all range, if any shooter game have this weapon, rifles can't shine.

[DiosGX]

so you'll never kill a Bow user, can you kill someone copt. with melee?

 

So that is balance? Staring at each other, forever?

If someone is using the Stamina Drain mod to kill the melee blocker's stam, they won't be blocking for very long. Two-to-three melee strikes will shatter someone's stamina, leaving the aggressor with enough stamina to either block in turn or just land the killshot since the other dude probably didn't expect his stamina to go down by 30% per attack from a Kogake.

 

Also, just saying, in other games the maps are much larger and the respawn timers are much longer. The comparison starts to fall a bit short if you just consider these two basic facts.

Also the fact that KILLS are not really the important stat here. Oro is, and that level of the game is almost impossible to predict and force in your favor.

That chaos is why I love team anni.

o 3o

Edited May 25, 2015 by DiosGX

[rockscl]

Certainly a heavy weapon in warframe can move as fast as a light one, and actually daikyu should be considered a heavy bow as you say, that is the issue with this "melee speed movement" system, this is already part of warframe´s nature, but we still have to see how things will work with movement 2.0

offtopic: controlling the map resources is skill, so is making use of 25 energy to stop a coptering daikyu, skill isnt restricted to aim and leading, when some thing is rampantly overpowered it gets nerfed not just because bad players yell for it, but because the ones exploiting it also recognize its brokenness(dual cestra, overload, bo prime), DE has stated many times that using an ability in the right moment and place is skill, obviously that is not twitch aiming or leading, that is not motor skill, thats why i know that they are outlining balance considering that the word skill implies a lot more than having motor skills, the right thing to do, is ask for a change in overpowered abilities, not to ask for adjusting the game for my own comfort zone, which seriously is already OLD, the world has played hundreds of fast twitch aiming ohk shooters, warframe pvp is already better than a lot of them

and mk1-braton / latron prime / lex prime still destroy in good hands, so does melee and bows, so the classic shooter weaponry is still viable if i take a look at my matches, when i found a player that is better than me, i can see that he has the objectives under control, that he aims well, and he takes better decisions than i do

you have improved a lot your translations, congratz, there i marked some improvements

Most 1 shot weapon in other Traditional shooter games are sawed-off shotgun, snipers, bows, WF just does the same, why is it worst than the others?

First, we move too far, distance is no more a problem for all shotguns, we move too fast.

the only down side of shotguns is nearly not applied in WF, that's why if a shotgun do 1 shot in WF, it will be much more powerful than in BF,CS,COD....

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Second, so how about the long range one? We only have one 1 shot bow in game and it takes long to charge, seems to be balanced.

But look at all the other games, these weapons are mostly between the slowest type of arms, means if they miss or get discovered by enemy before they prepared, they hardly can run away.

And in WF? We copt. away, yes, theres not any speed de-buff with heavy weapons, we just need to charge up at the corner and pray for a lucky hit, if we miss, we copt. away.

And don't forget, pursuing a heavy bow user takes huge risk, you run straight into his charged bow. In every corner he has a 1 shot chance to kill you. And his shield charges every corner he escaped.

In BF4 ? if I can get close to 100M and the sniper misses a shot, he signed up his death

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Edited May 25, 2015 by rockscl

[cary2010haha]

Certainly a heavy weapon in warframe can move as fast as a light one, that is the issue with this "melee speed movement" system, this is already part of warframe´s nature, but we still have to see how things will work with movement 2.0

 

Other than that, controlling the map resources is skill, so is making use of 25 energy to stop a coptering daikyu, skill isnt restricted to aim and leading, when some thing is rampantly overpowered it gets nerfed not just because bad players yell for it, but because good players also recognize its brokenness, DE has stated many times that using a ability in the right moment and place is skill, obviously that is not twitch aiming or leading, that is not motor skill, thats why i know that they are outlining balance considering that the word skill implies a lot more than having motor skills, so, stop forever that madness of belittling people because they can exploit your lack of control over objectives, the right thing to do, is ask for a change in overpowered abilities, not to ask for adjusting the game for my own comfort zone, which seriously is already OLD, the world has played hundreds of fast twitch aiming ohk shooters, warframe pvp is already better than a lot of them

 

and mk1-braton / latron prime / lex prime still destroy in good hands, so does melee and bows, so the classic shooter weaponry is still viable if i take a look at my matches, when i found a players that is better than me, i can see that he has the objectives under control, that he aims well, and he takes better decisions than i do, i think that up to now we all know that chasing a daikyu requires skill, and not exactly motor skill

 

 

you have improved a lot your translations, congratz, there i marked some improvements

 

 

yup and thx, but I added 2 more opinions under these. :P

More about how one shot heavy weapon's trade off in other games :P 

and 25 energy sure can't stop any one, pull? copt. don't take pull :P

[rockscl]

 

 

in my experience frost`s 1 is reliable to chase anyone, if you cant reach him you can always cast another 1 and just kill him, if you have the energy of course

[TaylorsContraction]

There's that melee mod that steals stamina. Two hits and no one is running away from you, they won't even be able to sprint.

[cary2010haha]

in my experience frost`s 1 is reliable to chase anyone, if you cant reach him you can always cast another 1 and just kill him, if you have the energy of course

hey, use a fair logic, you have the power and 50 energy, other side also have it. all route are same distant.

If you use "player skill" to adj. balance, there will not be any need of balance.

 

 

 

 

 

There's that melee mod that steals stamina. Two hits and no one is running away from you, they won't even be able to sprint.

 

it's not 2 hit :P it base on your weapon's stamina consume. after nerf it's no long threat.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Cary2010haha

[elele]

Most 1 shot weapon in other Traditional shooter games are sawed-off shotgun, snipers, bows, WF just do the same, why it worst than others?

 

 

First, we move too far, distant is no more a problem for all shotguns, we move too fast.

 

Quake says hi. 

[Pythadragon]

Quake says hi. 

 

quake doesn't have momentum modeled into their movement system, thus you can instantaneously change your vector with no penalties.

 

Wf does. There is delay as you decelerate from one vector and accelerate along another.

 

This delay gives the initiator a significant time advantage while the target tries to run away.

 

In quake, due to instantaneous vector change, there is no time advantage to the initiator: the target can run away at max speed immediately, even preventing the distance closer to begin with.

 

Wf having momentum built into the game significantly changes the landscape of distance closers and escapes. It is much harder (due to mechanics, not skill) to escape or even dodge due to acceleration/deceleration issues than in games with instantaneous movement.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Pythadragon

[cary2010haha]

Quake says hi. 

 

 

quake doesn't have momentum modeled into their movement system, thus you can instantaneously change your vector with no penalties.

 

Wf does. There is delay as you decelerate from one vector and accelerate along another.

 

This delay gives the initiator a significant time advantage while the target tries to run away.

 

In quake, due to instantaneous vector change, there is no time advantage to the initiator: the target can run away at max speed immediately, even preventing the distance closer to begin with.

yup, Pyth is right, in quake player pursue player in same speed if no buff effect, but in WF, nope, copt. away.

And I my memory after quake 4 heavy weapon have slower movement 2.

[Lord_Noctus]

in this game we need lower ttk. a 1 shot bow is no real danger. the daikyu criples the movement of the user and shotguns are no real threat too becouse " if " u are aware of one u can copter away and spam the S#&$ out of that guy with ur braton, karak,latron or whatever. this is what happens all the time ive been in enough matches to talk from my experience i played way more than anybody else here (im rly not trying to sound arrogant just stating fact) and i know most ppl here will change their minds sooner or later on all of their opinions.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Lord_Noctus