(Suggestion) Accuracy Penalties Based On Movement/aim Down Sights.

[Pythadragon]

As is, all weapons are pretty accurate with out using aimdown sights, with aimdown sights providing a slight reduction in bullet spread due to zoom + weapon spread proportion of the screen not changing.

 

We have seen in pve that the devs instituted penalties on enemy accuracy in response to player movement at the time (coptering vs standing still).

 

In pvp, we should see the opposite: player accuracy should take penalties while moving at different speeds. Standing still/crouching should provide the best accuracy (our current baseline), with an accuracy penalty that is a function of player current velocity.

 

Likewise, not using aimdown sights should have a larger penalty on weapons. 

 

These changes would solidify existing player styles and link our movement system to killing potential in a way that would bring additional gameplay diversity.

 

From a basic standpoint:

Long range combatants will have to move slower to maintain their accuracy

Close range combatants closing distance would be at a disadvantage until right ontop of another player.

 

These changes would alleviate issues with distance closers being too effective and the movement momentum (acceleration/deceleration as opposed to classic instantaneous vector changes) system making escape too ineffective.

 

Players would have incentive to not copter away and instead go for a quick accurate kill in a more high risk high reward situation.

 

edit: restatement.

 

Currently there is every reason in the world to move fast. Warframe pvp needs to give people an incentive to move slow to bring move gameplay diversity.

 

Skilled matches currently boil down to ping ponging combatants using coptering, wallflings, and aerial melee while shooting with point precision.

 

This change would break that up because slow combatants will suddenly be able to kill better than fast with guns (ability and melee would not be affected by accuracy changes)

Edited May 25, 2015 by Pythadragon

[rechot]

Makes sense its kinda like CS:GO aiming.

[Kontrollo]

So what you're saying is you want to see more bows, or generally more slow-firing high damage weapons? Because that's what will happen if this is implemented. People will keep using their mobility and just slow down to get some single shots in from an advantageous position, then continue moving around, most likely with a focus on energy spawns. Also, keeping up with Cephalon carriers will be even harder that way.

 

By the way, ADS does reduce spread quite a bit more than what you make it out to be, it's very noticable on e.g. the Kraken:

[JackBeloved]

I like it.

[elele]

Yep let's give that Volt crouch-camping the top energy spawn on Europa more advantage. He copters back and forth on the top rails, occasionally stops and shoots with great accuracy across the map. You copters up to kill him, he crouch-shoots you with accuracy while you're in mid-air and suffering from aim penalty. 

 

Don't think this is good. 

[Pythadragon]

So what you're saying is you want to see more bows, or generally more slow-firing high damage weapons? Because that's what will happen if this is implemented. People will keep using their mobility and just slow down to get some single shots in from an advantageous position, then continue moving around, most likely with a focus on energy spawns. Also, keeping up with Cephalon carriers will be even harder that way.

 

By the way, ADS does reduce spread quite a bit more than what you make it out to be, it's very noticable on e.g. the Kraken:

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think what you are showing is not the accuracy of aim down sights, but the reduction of horizontal recoil during rapid fire, which is a separate issue (accuracy vs precision).

 

Re: other statements- Not what I am saying. Weapon balance can still be tweaked through other means.

 

Let me restate it this way:

 

Currently there is every reason in the world to move fasti. Warframe pvp needs to give people an incentive to move slow to bring move gameplay diversity.

 

Skilled matches boil down to ping ponging combatants using coptering, wallflings, and aerial melee while shooting with point precision.

 

This change would break that up because slow combatants will suddenly be able to kill better than fast.

Edited May 25, 2015 by Pythadragon

[Xaero]

If they do it before coptering nerf then players with close range weapons such as Strun will leave no chance to any other. Coptering as it is now allows crossing the entire map in no time so natural mobility of any warframe makes no difference.

[Kontrollo]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think what you are showing is not the accuracy of aim down sights, but the reduction of horizontal recoil, which is a separate issue (accuracy vs precision).

 

It's probably both. I think they're using 2 sets of stats zoomed in & out. I'm afraid I can't say anymore if I was using Steady Hands when I made that screenshot, it's been a while. But try it yourself - it's very noticable on that weapon - and maybe you'll come to a different conclusion.

[Feyangol]

The accuracy together with the insane movement speed gives conclave a unique game feeling. People, who want to change it, want to play a different kind of shooter (or however you want to call conclave).

So, no - play another game and don't try to change the basics of this game ...

Edited May 25, 2015 by Feyangol

[elele]

The accuracy together with the insane movement speed gives conclave a unique game feeling. People, who want to change it, want to play a different kind of shooter (or however you want to call conclave).

So, no - play another game and don't try to change the basics of this game ...

 

This. 

[VampirePirate]

As is, all weapons are pretty accurate with out using aimdown sights, with aimdown sights providing a slight reduction in bullet spread due to zoom + weapon spread proportion of the screen not changing.

 

We have seen in pve that the devs instituted penalties on enemy accuracy in response to player movement at the time (coptering vs standing still).

 

In pvp, we should see the opposite: player accuracy should take penalties while moving at different speeds. Standing still/crouching should provide the best accuracy (our current baseline), with an accuracy penalty that is a function of player current velocity.

 

Likewise, not using aimdown sights should have a larger penalty on weapons. 

 

These changes would solidify existing player styles and link our movement system to killing potential in a way that would bring additional gameplay diversity.

 

From a basic standpoint:

Long range combatants will have to move slower to maintain their accuracy

Close range combatants closing distance would be at a disadvantage until right ontop of another player.

 

These changes would alleviate issues with distance closers being too effective and the movement momentum (acceleration/deceleration as opposed to classic instantaneous vector changes) system making escape too ineffective.

 

Players would have incentive to not copter away and instead go for a quick accurate kill in a more high risk high reward situation.

 

edit: restatement.

 

Currently there is every reason in the world to move fast. Warframe pvp needs to give people an incentive to move slow to bring move gameplay diversity.

 

Skilled matches currently boil down to ping ponging combatants using coptering, wallflings, and aerial melee while shooting with point precision.

 

This change would break that up because slow combatants will suddenly be able to kill better than fast with guns (ability and melee would not be affected by accuracy changes)

So what you want is for Tom Clancy to take over and turn Warframe into a military-reality tactical video game.

 

Why not just turn your back on Warframe and go play a Tom Clancy game? 

[TaylorsContraction]

Warframe is not that kind of game. This is a high mobility move your &#! game, not crouch for more accuracy. I don't think we should go in the direction of modern shooters because that need is already metin every other fps.

We already cannot fire while sprinting, and slide shooting is a cool game feature.

[Volume]

I think this should be looked at again with the new bullet-jumping.

 

/e: what I mean is, you can shoot while bulletjumping. You couldn't shoot while coptering.

Edited August 14, 2015 by Volume

[Rakshal]

I think this should be looked at again with the new bullet-jumping.

 

/e: what I mean is, you can shoot while bulletjumping. You couldn't shoot while coptering.

This is simply not true. You can shoot while gliding, but not in the middle of the jump.

[Lakais]

I have nothing but support for the OP's idea. It makes perfect sense AND brings versatility. As for the argument that people will simply use this system to get into a position, fire a shot with a high power weapon and then move again. That's tactics, that is smart use of mobility and weapons, the sniper's "shoot and scoot" method. And it will not, in any way make it more difficult for those melee specialists to get around the map and do their thing. In fact it might make it easier for them because these people who'd rather fight ranged will have to become far less mobile to shoot you, while as you with the sword and bullet-hose at point blank have no such problems.

 

As it stands now, this game is just either people bouncing around, channeling melee, or back-pedaling while creating a cloud-wall of Boltor P rounds in the desperate hope that someone other then them dies.

[Lord_Noctus]

I have nothing but support for the OP's idea. It makes perfect sense AND brings versatility. As for the argument that people will simply use this system to get into a position, fire a shot with a high power weapon and then move again. That's tactics, that is smart use of mobility and weapons, the sniper's "shoot and scoot" method. And it will not, in any way make it more difficult for those melee specialists to get around the map and do their thing. In fact it might make it easier for them because these people who'd rather fight ranged will have to become far less mobile to shoot you, while as you with the sword and bullet-hose at point blank have no such problems.

As it stands now, this game is just either people bouncing around, channeling melee, or back-pedaling while creating a cloud-wall of Boltor P rounds in the desperate hope that someone other then them dies.

there are allready different playstyles my own playstyle is rather slow and sometimes im just standing to land my bullets. Ur not calculating the human in the idea becouse when u move faster ur accuracy allready gets worst becouse u have to correct ur aim more than by standing still. Also ull have even more problems hunting people down that run away which is difficult allready and the reason why ppl ask for lower ttk. By the way we definately need an increase in projectile speed in pvp but i dont know how much more. Edited August 14, 2015 by Lord_Noctus