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Trial Of Trials


MagPrime
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At no point did I say I expected to win.  We went in knowing we would probably fail, but at least we would have had a lot of fun while learning the raid.  We were never given a clue as to what we were supposed to be aiming for. 

 

The difficulty of the raid is fine, I enjoyed that part, my complaint is that I am required to go to outside sources to figure out the goal of the raid.

 

And no one went in thinking that they would do just fine with their fav frame, everyone switched it up trying to get the best configuration for what we thought we would need.  I main Mag Prime, but I know she wasn't the best choice for those levels in that setting, so I went with a 'frame that I thought would be the most helpful in maximizing damage and providing support.  (Banshee)  Everyone else did the same.

 

You should really talk to someone before claiming you know their mentality or thought process, otherwise it makes you look arrogant and belittling.

As has been said and done. People went in and figured out what to do. When I did my first raid I had no idea what was going on either, we messed up a lot. The only thing we knew was the stage 2 part 1 because it was on a devstream demonstration. The hardest thing to figure out was to drop the charged battery in front of the injector, but the rest is pretty straight forward. When you hack all the consoles it sais "Injector is vulnerable", that's a pretty big clue. There are visual clues for most of the other things. Matching pictures, following the wires, you can see electrified rails. So in the end it's a matter of opinion. In my opinion there's enough information, you think there isn't, but THERE are outside sources for those that don't want invest time into figuring things out. Ain't nothing wrong with that.

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As has been said and done. People went in and figured out what to do. When I did my first raid I had no idea what was going on either, we messed up a lot. The only thing we knew was the stage 2 part 1 because it was on a devstream demonstration. The hardest thing to figure out was to drop the charged battery in front of the injector, but the rest is pretty straight forward. When you hack all the consoles it sais "Injector is vulnerable", that's a pretty big clue. There are visual clues for most of the other things. Matching pictures, following the wires, you can see electrified rails. So in the end it's a matter of opinion. In my opinion there's enough information, you think there isn't, but THERE are outside sources for those that don't want invest time into figuring things out. Ain't nothing wrong with that.

Nothing wrong with going to outside sources, you are correct. But setting it up so that you have to is the issue.

For "experienced" gamers it is easy, like you said, however for players that aren't as old as you, it's not easy.

And like I've been saying, I don't want hand holding, just a bit more information. Felis nailed it on presentation. That is what I would like added.

 

What I'm getting from your posts is that you had fun, you found it easy so nothing should be changed and anyone that says otherwise is whining because they couldn't cut it.  That is extremely limiting for the games content and newer gamer participation.  It screams entitlement and "git gud nub."

 

A tiered system to the raid would help.  Having LoR be the moderate mode and the Nightmare mode being hard would work.

Edited by Noamuth
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Nothing wrong with going to outside sources, you are correct. But setting it up so that you have to is the issue.

For "experienced" gamers it is easy, like you said, however for players that aren't as old as you, it's not easy.

And like I've been saying, I don't want hand holding, just a bit more information. Felis nailed it on presentation. That is what I would like added.

 

What I'm getting from your posts is that you had fun, you found it easy so nothing should be changed and anyone that says otherwise is whining because they couldn't cut it.  That is extremely limiting for the games content and newer gamer participation.  It screams entitlement and "git gud nub."

 

A tiered system to the raid would help.  Having LoR be the moderate mode and the Nightmare mode being hard would work.

Come now entitlement? Here's my other concern here. People waint Trial tutorials in mission, single player trial playthrough with no rewards etc.. etc... Essentially an easier trial so people can learn.

 

BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS FACTOR: Everyday for normal trials I have at least 1-2 new players. I walk them through on what to do and they learn as we go with guidance from fellow players. Is that so bad? What's wrong with being guided by fellow tenno? For nightmare trials I peronsally insist that a player has completed the normal ones first and knows how they progress. Yes there are some players that refuse to take new players but certainly not everyone. I feel like all these suggestions are just unnecesary because you have players that can help other players, not because of some entitlement.

 

As for people who want to learn on their own, like your clan who can actually form a 7-man group with voice comms and coordination. I'm confident that it is just a matter of time before you guys figure out what must be done. These missions are not meant for an mr3 or low level players. According to you I am "entitled" for thinking so. And by low level I mean players with few warframes in their arsenal. And even then I have taken pretty low MR (5 and 7) players with me on Trials so long as they have a frost and Valkyr as those are pretty easy roles to use.

 

The only valid argument one can propose for making solo trials is for the solo players that do not like co-op. I do feel like they are left in the dust, but if they do not get the same rewards, they're still left in the dust.

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Come now entitlement? Here's my other concern here. People waint Trial tutorials in mission, single player trial playthrough with no rewards etc.. etc... Essentially an easier trial so people can learn.

 

BUT WHAT ABOUT THIS FACTOR: Everyday for normal trials I have at least 1-2 new players. I walk them through on what to do and they learn as we go with guidance from fellow players. Is that so bad? What's wrong with being guided by fellow tenno? For nightmare trials I peronsally insist that a player has completed the normal ones first and knows how they progress. Yes there are some players that refuse to take new players but certainly not everyone. I feel like all these suggestions are just unnecesary because you have players that can help other players, not because of some entitlement.

 

As for people who want to learn on their own, like your clan who can actually form a 7-man group with voice comms and coordination. I'm confident that it is just a matter of time before you guys figure out what must be done. These missions are not meant for an mr3 or low level players. According to you I am "entitled" for thinking so. And by low level I mean players with few warframes in their arsenal. And even then I have taken pretty low MR (5 and 7) players with me on Trials so long as they have a frost and Valkyr as those are pretty easy roles to use.

 

The only valid argument one can propose for making solo trials is for the solo players that do not like co-op. I do feel like they are left in the dust, but if they do not get the same rewards, they're still left in the dust.

I personally don't see the point in a solo trial, especially with no rewards.  For me, online games like this, the goal is to play with other people, but that's because I'm a social player and rarely solo if I can help it.  But why no rewards?  o.0

 

And yes, it is a matter of time before we figure out what has to be done.  Through lots of trial and error, lost time and no rewards.  I think I'd be more okay with trial and error if we were able to keep a portion of what we collected.

 

For players that have limited gameplay time and are easily frustrated, why should they be required to waste time on something that quickly becomes unfun when you can't progress or have to go to outside sources to figure out what you're doing?

 

My suggestion is to put little hints along the way so that more people can enjoy the raid, not have Lotus beam in, hold our hands and lead the way.  Which seems to be what people think I'm suggesting for some reason.

 

And cudos to you for taking the time to teach other players how to run the trial, but again, we shouldn't be required to take that path. 

 

The Nightmare version, I agree 100% that you shouldn't run that if you haven't run and completed the normal one btw.  Going into that is irresponsible and detrimental to your team if you don't know what's going on.

 

I guess the biggest issue is that I view LoR as the first trial to get everyones feet wet and encourage them to ask for more raids like it, so it shouldn't be so difficult to get the necessary information.  It discourages people from making a second, third or even fourth attempt.

 

Since you're dead set against changing the trial at all, what about a quest leading up to the trial that gives the hints and pointers that are needed to make it through?  As well as provide background story for why Vey Hek is being naughty again.

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*snip for length*

Riddle me this: How much actual learning from other Tenno actually happens? In practice? In general, referring to the community as a whole? For every player who's willing to take new people on raids, how many others are injecting Recruiting with their "SUPER 1337 MR [17/1819] ONLY" elitist toxin (for which I instantly ignore them, because anyone who thinks Mastery Rank automatically makes for a better squad will probably produce a crap raid experience anyway)? For every player willing to take "sub-optimal" frames or builds, how many others allow nothing but the cookie-cutter max efficiency max cheese frames, or reject anything but the most ridiculously minmaxed builds? I'm willing to bet that the ratio just isn't good. Because the normal game is already steeped in toxic behavior and the raid only seems to make it worse.

 

The raid is not designed in a way that encourages experimentation. There's a completely opaque progression structure you can only uncover by building up your meager knowledge on a mountain of near-deaths and revives, simply because the game provides not the slightest scrap of that information from start to finish. But when you do uncover that route you find out only that the raid's structure is really very linear, lacking in variation, and seemingly designed to encourage one specific "optimal solution", maybe with a tiny bit of leeway as to which frames double up if any. There is room to straight up run "unusual" combinations, but it's so narrow that most players don't even know or care that it exists. I say this having gone through it multiple times, and every time there was more "challenge" arising from A) cheap hacking-related shenanigans and B) player stupidity than by any aspect of the raid's tactical structure. Less thinking, more timing spacebar presses, dancing in and out of a hijack core's range to keep it from frying, trying to get people to stay on the bloody panic room buttons, and all the while mashing the CC button.

 

Nothing actually encouraged or demanded a radical change in the players' ways of thinking, which is a shame, because - apparently - to find more variety in the raid you have to scrape it out of the ground yourself, squad member by squad member.

*snip for length too*

Also, on both ends regarding single-player: Honestly, I'm primarily a solo player (no regular group timing, and I get awful luck with random runs), and I wouldn't mind a single player Raid variant with the same rewards (but it's not necessary, just an interesting idea).

 

As for partial loot, though, people really should keep what they have even if it fails. "Surprise, you just lost everything" really isn't an encouraging setup in the slightest (and not just in raid, since that's how the system works - or doesn't - in various other places as well).

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-snip for length-

Looking at the solo trail from your perspective, I agree it should be a thing. 

 

I'd like to clarify the partial loot bit - I don't mean you keep everything obtained up until quitting, I mean you keep 65% of what you gathered or you get either all mods gathered or all resources gathered.  Being able to keep everything would enoucrage people to drop from team when they got some uber shiny that they didn't want to lose.

 

And to be clear, this is to encourage people to actually take the time to test run the trial instead of just wasting time and revives trying to "figure it out."   I think the only way to make a partial loot system work would be having loot drones or Sentinel Extractors that are carrying loot back to Ordis for you while you're fighting...

 

If DE wanted to set up another raid that was much harder, but keep LoR and it's Nightmare version, I'd be totally accepting of that.  We'd have two raids to choose from and more people would be able to enjoy the content instead of just a portion of the community.

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Looking at the solo trail from your perspective, I agree it should be a thing. 

 

I'd like to clarify the partial loot bit - I don't mean you keep everything obtained up until quitting, I mean you keep 65% of what you gathered or you get either all mods gathered or all resources gathered.  Being able to keep everything would enoucrage people to drop from team when they got some uber shiny that they didn't want to lose.

 

And to be clear, this is to encourage people to actually take the time to test run the trial instead of just wasting time and revives trying to "figure it out."   I think the only way to make a partial loot system work would be having loot drones or Sentinel Extractors that are carrying loot back to Ordis for you while you're fighting...

 

If DE wanted to set up another raid that was much harder, but keep LoR and it's Nightmare version, I'd be totally accepting of that.  We'd have two raids to choose from and more people would be able to enjoy the content instead of just a portion of the community.

Ah, right - forgot about that issue with people dropping, which is already present in regular raids. My bad. I do like the idea of some form of (reduced, but still substantial) loot safety net in raids... and maybe in the entire game, if possible, but admittedly this is a very difficult sort of thing to work out.

 

On another note, there's a really compelling case to have three tiers of Raid that I only just remembered because my brain is full of sleep.

 

Arcane tiers: Common, Uncommon, Rare. As of now, with Normal and Nightmare, Commons and Rares are both easier to obtain than Uncommons due to the massively weighted drop chances- which is completely nonsensical. Easy, medium, and hard would correspond neatly to each tier of loot and make the experience of obtaining arcanes a much smoother one overall.

 

I still think LoR needs to be revised eventually to give more of a sense of progression and diversification of actual tactics. I want to face real tricks and traps, not have all the challenge come from oneshots and Vay Hack-Terminal infinitely more difficult than Vay Hek himself.

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Ah, right - forgot about that issue with people dropping, which is already present in regular raids. My bad. I do like the idea of some form of (reduced, but still substantial) loot safety net in raids... and maybe in the entire game, if possible, but admittedly this is a very difficult sort of thing to work out.

 

On another note, there's a really compelling case to have three tiers of Raid that I only just remembered because my brain is full of sleep.

 

Arcane tiers: Common, Uncommon, Rare. As of now, with Normal and Nightmare, Commons and Rares are both easier to obtain than Uncommons due to the massively weighted drop chances- which is completely nonsensical. Easy, medium, and hard would correspond neatly to each tier of loot and make the experience of obtaining arcanes a much smoother one overall.

 

I still think LoR needs to be revised eventually to give more of a sense of progression and diversification of actual tactics. I want to face real tricks and traps, not have all the challenge come from oneshots and Vay Hack-Terminal infinitely more difficult than Vay Hek himself.

Have LoR be the common drops, the next raid be uncommon drops and the nightmare variants for both be uncommon and rare?

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Have LoR be the common drops, the next raid be uncommon drops and the nightmare variants for both be uncommon and rare?

Mm... well, the next raid might introduce new arcanes. We don't know what DE's planning.

 

I would go for the Easy/Normal/Nightmare split per raid, though. Baseline LoR being normal, and easy being a version with... maybe weaker enemies, and more guide tips (even if they're little, static-obscured sentences from the Lotus that just happen to reveal important keywords).

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I'm not against changes to the Trials, I am against making them easier, or creating more version of the same trials but designed for fewer players with worse rewards. I also expressed my opinion that the current Trials offer enough information for people to fgure out how to complete them. This entire thread is you expressing your opinion that the Trials do not offer enough information, and my opinion is that they do. I am writing a counter-opinion to yours in your thread so if DE reads this, they do not simply think "Oh everyon thinks we need to add more information so we will". Maybe they will have more information in the future trials because of complaint threads such as these who knows.

 

To FellisImpurator, as for the curent Trials being linear *facepalms*. Come on, give DE a break, this is the first mission of this type. You want them to also have branching paths where doing different actions will lead to different missions, locations and possibly outcomes? That would be great and all but one must learn to walk before running. You can largely blame how the current LoR turned out on the people who playtested it. I remember in Dev Streams DE saying that they had some early testers helping them out and they were having a really hard time with it. Well maybe if that group ran an optimal CC composition and breezed through the Trials, DE would HAVE ACTUALLY KNOWN THAT "Hey this can be a piece of cake if done with so and so". They'd have then changed things to make it not a CC-hell easy mode mission. In nightmare they have made adjustments in hopes of circumventing this but at the end of the day this mission is cc spam easy mode. Let them learn from this experience and let's hope future trials will be better. If they want to change LoR so as to change people's approach to it, I'm all for it. But I don't think we need more information in the mission, nor do I think we need easier versions for people to practice.

 

Lastly the toxic players who only want mr [17-19] players, that is their prerogative and I can't blame them. Taking low MR players isn't always peaches and ice cream for me, I've failed plenty of Trials because newer players either don't listen to instructions or simply can't carry them out because they don't have the skill or know how. A lot of new players aren't used to paying attention to chat because most low lvl missions are solo and no one really communicates / coordinates anything. Waiting 5 minutes for someone to notice chat and be "Oh sorry I wasn't paying attention" often results in someone on the team lashing out and generally the mission only goes down hill from there. Seeing this kind of things in about 30% of my runs, yeah high ranked players don't WANT TO DEAL WITH THIS. I simply can't fault them and you calling them toxic just tells me you haven't carried enough people to know how frustrating it can be. And if you have carried a lot of new players you cannot begrudge anyone for not wanting to. You guys are harking about "oh muh day so busy I ain't got time for that", wel a lot of people ain't got time for this.

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*snip*

Regarding the first part: What is the big deal with having more difficulty modes? Does it affect you in any way whatsoever? No, because you can just run Nightmare mode if you want to. What is the point of this "we can't have an easier version because I, me, myself, do not like playing on easy" mentality?

 

Also, that's exactly why I'm breaking down, in great detail, what was wrong with LoR's structure. So it can be learned from. So the problems can be identified. That's the entire point. And you still have yet to give any reasoning beyond "I didn't need easier modes, so easier modes should never exist, because somehow the concept of them personally offends me or something."

 

And now I'll be addressing mainly the third part, because once again it seems entire chunks of my posts have gone unread.

 

Did you not notice the part where I mentioned that some MR 19 single-handedly wrecked an entire raid because he apparently didn't care for any sort of communication or coordination in stage 2? Because that happened. The second time we tried that night, it was a MR 13 player who almost got us wrecked repeatedly. We had to kick out another MR 19 who unfairly objected to our having a rank 4 - a rank 4 who was one of the better players on the team, and who was vouched for by the rest of the squad.

 

MR means almost nothing. All it signifies is how much junk you've collected and XP farmed up to 30. I say this as a collector: It's a mark of being a bigger collector, not a better player. You know what? I've run into more high-ranked randoms who never talk, never interact, just rush copter through a level as fast as possible without ever acknowledging their chat once in fifteen minutes, than low-ranked ones. I've seen several MR18/19 players who ruined a raid attempt not two minutes in because they Leeroy Jenkins'd off into the distance before everyone loaded in, proving that they had basically zero ability to coordinate or exercise any sort of team play. I ain't got time for that BS, either, but half the time it's the only thing saturating recruiting chat with its stupidity. I'd rather carry newbies who haven't yet learned the bad habit of CAN'T TALK TOO BUSY GOTTAGOFAST RUSHING INTO LV80 BOMBARDS than run with a Tiger ranked Trin who decides midway through Hijack, in the middle of Hek and G3, that it's a fine time to rub his face all over the Fomorian core... and back off so it passes back through the electricity, and move it back through, and back off again.

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Regarding the first part: What is the big deal with having more difficulty modes? Does it affect you in any way whatsoever? No, because you can just run Nightmare mode if you want to. What is the point of this "we can't have an easier version because I, me, myself, do not like playing on easy" mentality?

I was under the impression trials were end-game content. That is why I do not want easier versions. They pay out 200k credits, 400k credits if you get a booster (which is not uncommon) and reward an arcane. While a lot of people think Arcanes suck I find them quite powerful. I don't think easier versions of this mission warrant these rewards. I don't think easiers versions warrant any arcane rewards. That is my opinion.  This is a separate discussion from this topic. I don't think there is anything in this game that poses much of a challenge, all star-chart missions and all void missions [unless you are going for 40+ minutes]. The exception is nightmare mode, I still get wrecked there unless I bring certain frames [Trin / Rhino etc...]. I'm obviously speaking from a "I have all mods maxed and multi forma on my frames/weapons" mentality, and I don't personally have all mods maxed.

 

What I'm getting at, is I think it is good to have challenging missions, it gives people something to work towards. Trials in particular also offer realy nice rewards. If that is not a good enough reason for ya, that's fine, I'm not asking you to agree with me. You're a solo player and as I pointed out already, are just out of luck when it comes to trials. You need 4 people minimum and it's pretty tough with 4 ppl. Given that I have only once been able to convince a group to run with just 4, gives me an idea of how much people actually like challenging themselves. We alreay have plenty of easy missions, I don't personally care to see more.

 

For solo players it's just a differnt story that doesn't belong in this thread. As to crappy high mr players, I don't see how that is relevant. I merely pointed out why some people don't want to invite low MR players. Statistically it does coorelate with skill whether we want to admit it or not. That is not to say all high mr players are pros, or low mr players suck, I never made such claims peronsally.

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Felis' suggested implementation of having Lotus provide staticed out keywords would provide more direction to players that have a hard time figuring things out and allow more players to enjoy expanded content. 

 

Trials and raids should be to test our abilities and reward us with rare (compared to the rest of the solar system) items to give use a reason to spend that much time dying and getting blown up.  I agree that it should be hard, it should be difficult but we shouldn't have to go to outside sources to figure out the basic requirements.

 

You feel that if I don't have the time to waste test running the trial and I feel I should be supplied enough information that I shouldn't have to waste time figuring out what to do on a first level trial.  And that's what this is, it's DE's first attempt at a trial/raid system and it needs work, badly.

 

Don't want to make the trial easier, at all, for any reason?  Fine.  Supply an alternative that doesn't involve going outside of the game to get the objectives that's easy for anyone to understand, an addition to the game.  I suggested an optional pre-trial quest but you never responded to it, so I can only conclude that you didn't find it a worthwhile option - provide one.

Edited by Noamuth
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For "experienced" gamers it is easy, like you said, however for players that aren't as old as you, it's not easy.

 

It can be easy for anyone, but not available because of requirements.

 

All these discussions about "difficulty" of raid... Yesterday, after speaking with a friend who actually played LoR, I came to conclusion that the only thing that makes it hard are though oneshot-enemies. Solution is simple - and I got it in a seconds - take radius-Banshee with sound blast, radius-Nova with mol.prime and radius-Loki with radiation disarm. Take Trinity to heal and energize them, take Frost or Limbo to protect them, and take Nyx as a failsafe. The only problem this team could meet - lack of special mods and number of formas to fit these mods. With this team you will be walking in a Garden of Statues (as someone already said it here), completely free and with eternity at your service to think about what to do next. You may not even need multiple runs.

By the way, the "Phoenix" tactical had the same challenge and solution.

 

So the key to completing raid is not your "experience". "Experienced player" is the one to find a way out of difficult situation, using what you have right now. The situation in raid as I already said is "throw in MOAR hardskinned enemies!" and it is solved in moments by a few cc-tricks. This is not an "experience", this is digits and grind that any novice player can fast-learn and use.

 

Funny thing -- all these details, nuances and tricks about cc-frames abilities are absent in a game; to learn them player has to go to outside sources, because on low-level he can't see much of a potential of his tools. There's not much actual in-game knowledge-gaining for a player -- mostly everything useful he learns comes from wiki and forums.

 

Well. This is it. Oo

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This discussion is kind of derailing the thread, but with respect to dealing with cc spam easy mode, DE is already on top of it. They have tested out diminishing returns on CC with the False Profit event. For me personally it seemed like a great way to go about it even if it diesn't make sense from a logical point of view. For those of you that actually run trials reguarly you know that typically players opt to CC the enemies and not actually kill them. With diminishing returns, we won't be able to CC the enemies indefinitely and there will come a point when we'll have no choice but to kill them because the CC is no longer effective. I'm sure they are fleshing out exactly how to implement this and I'm personally looking forward to it. I hope that it will work in a way where disarmed enemies will also be able to recover their weapons after a certain amount of time as without thath change dimishing returns on CC don't mean a whole lot, if all the enemies are running around with batons.

 

The easiest way to increase difficulty in trials is force the players to split up completely. Allow x amount of players to go through door a, and y amount through door b. These two groups of players will have separate objectives in the same mission, both of which must be completed in a coordinated fashion. By separating the players like this, they supposedly can't rely on cc spam since the group is split in half effectively. Of course there will still be cc, just not as much. Throw on top of that stealth aspects and those pads people need to stand on, meaning divide the group even further in mico-objectives and you have a trial where every individual is doing something useful rather than getting carried.

 

 

---As for going to outside sources for everything, yes and no. I think that most players don't have time to test every ability, whether it is affected by power stregth, duration, range and the wiki is a great resource for such things. I do agree that information like this should be clear in the game. For example mesa's peacemaker is unaffected by power range, but no one would know this without testing it. The easiest thing DE can do is when players look at their ability screen display modifiers from mods, and that will right away tell players "Oh hey I'm not getting a range bonus on peacemaker from stretch, guess it doesn't affect it.". But with many other aspects of the game there is plenty of room for self learning. A lot of my builds very greatly from what I see everyone suggest and work just fine. For example I think running QT on Banshee is dumb, she has 15 armor and therefore her hp is like a non regenerating shield. So instead I concentrate on a shield build. Energy is too valuable for banshee because it's her life blood, wasting energy in the form of an HP pool isn't going to save her. That's my take on it but the point is, players can learn and optimize buids on their own without going to outside sources. All this isn't related to the thread >____<. But Lotus doesn't help you in stage 1 of the trials because there is interference with communication and she can't communicate with players. Perhaps they can add a secondary objective where players can try to hijack some grineer communicator with a stronger power supply to reestablish comms so she can give you that one hint "BLOW UP THE TOXIN INJECTORS TENNO, Just like on Earth sabotage, remember your training Tenno!".

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What I'm getting at, is I think it is good to have challenging missions, it gives people something to work towards. Trials in particular also offer realy nice rewards. If that is not a good enough reason for ya, that's fine, I'm not asking you to agree with me. You're a solo player and as I pointed out already, are just out of luck when it comes to trials. You need 4 people minimum and it's pretty tough with 4 ppl. Given that I have only once been able to convince a group to run with just 4, gives me an idea of how much people actually like challenging themselves. We alreay have plenty of easy missions, I don't personally care to see more.

Did I also mention I've done raids? Yes. I think I did. It's not an issue of not being able to do them, but rather that people should be able to play this game the way they want, whether it's eight player Nightmare or four player standard or solo facerolling Vay Hek. Railroading just because you don't like it serves no one. Also, "easier" doesn't necessarily mean "as easy as regular starchart content". It means "still challenging, except 90% of the challenge doesn't come from bumping into instakills every ten seconds". I also mentioned that having three difficulties would, incidentally, solve the problem of "uncommon" arcanes being rarer than "rare" arcanes for no good reason.

 

DE's looking into diminishing returns, yes, but if they don't rebalance the trial around it that just takes away an option without leaving another in its place. So, ideally, if they do that they should also make the enemies less overpowered.

 

Although honestly, I wouldn't mind having a secondary objective to clear up the comms. But it's still silly, as far as I'm concerned, to be able to destroy three injectors and have no change in comm quality or toxin potency.

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Have you been playing Warframe at all? Of course DE would make an important cut scene slippable - otherwise they'd have all the players that run it constantly raising hell about being forced to sit through the same scene constantly.

And having clear instructions is good for the casual and new players, not everyone has an interest in mental gymnastics, not everyone finds that fun and challenging.

Let the player chose the level of difficulty, highest would you you're on a new tileset and no one talks to you and you have a dozen hackable terminals. Have fun. Lowest would be Lotus telling us what we need to do.

Right now, that trial doesn't give enough information and it kinda sucks.

Lol you have no argument and you are making things up now.  Please name for me the cut scenes where vital information is shown anywhere in the entire game.

 

"mental gymnastics" LOL.

 

intense brain strain ahead, CAUTION:

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Although honestly, I wouldn't mind having a secondary objective to clear up the comms. But it's still silly, as far as I'm concerned, to be able to destroy three injectors and have no change in comm quality or toxin potency.

If an airplane engine fails, the airplane will not crash.  It's the same concept with the toxin injectors.  When one or more fails, the other ones work harder to keep the same output.

 

We already know that toxin injectors can run at higher capacity for a short amount of time before failing, like we do to them in sabotage missions.  There is no reason to assume the remaining toxin injectors in the system wouldn't make up for a failure of another.

 

I'm not reading the rest of this topic, it's likely a 4 page echo chamber.

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If an airplane engine fails, the airplane will not crash.  It's the same concept with the toxin injectors.  When one or more fails, the other ones work harder to keep the same output.

 

We already know that toxin injectors can run at higher capacity for a short amount of time before failing, like we do to them in sabotage missions.  There is no reason to assume the remaining toxin injectors in the system wouldn't make up for a failure of another.

 

I'm not reading the rest of this topic, it's likely a 4 page echo chamber.

Funny, that. From the content of your posts, you seem perfectly at home in echo chambers.

 

Well, anyway, bye. If you don't read the posts based solely on your presumptions, you have no business being in the thread anyway.

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Lol you have no argument and you are making things up now.  Please name for me the cut scenes where vital information is shown anywhere in the entire game.

 

"mental gymnastics" LOL.

 

intense brain strain ahead, CAUTION:

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If an airplane engine fails, the airplane will not crash.  It's the same concept with the toxin injectors.  When one or more fails, the other ones work harder to keep the same output.

 

We already know that toxin injectors can run at higher capacity for a short amount of time before failing, like we do to them in sabotage missions.  There is no reason to assume the remaining toxin injectors in the system wouldn't make up for a failure of another.

 

I'm not reading the rest of this topic, it's likely a 4 page echo chamber.

So you just dropped by to be rude, snarky, arrogant and not actually participate in a conversation on how to improve something?

 

'Kay.

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