Kohm Consumes Wrong Ammo?

[aerosoul1337]

I just noticed I ran out of ammo even with ammo mutation mod in endless mission.

And I found I have to reload more often.

 

Then did some further tests.

Kohm used to act like this:

• The Kohm consumes 7 ammo for the first four shots, reaching full spool on the 4th. At full spool it uses 2.666 ammo per shot, resulting in a displayed ammo consumption of 2 or 3 ammo per shot at full spool.
• With base magazine capacity, it can fire about 94 shots in succession before needing to reload, spending 245 ammo.

With full magazine capacity, 245 ammo can only fire 66 shots.

So basically it consumes a lot more ammo now.

Edited August 19, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[aerosoul1337]

So 245/66 = 3.712

It consumes almost 4 shotgun ammo per shot in average.

And note that we are not always at full spool. So the pellet consume  ratio is a lot worse actually.

 

Please fix this asap.

Edited June 2, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Kohm got nerfed and buffed a few times, and after last optimization Kohm's final pellet count is 12 per shot and uses 4 units of ammo per shot.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Mofixil

[aerosoul1337]

No, it is not 12 pellet.

Kohm is my main weapon. It is 5 pellets at full spool without multishot.

10 pellet was at the age that it had projectiles and before damage buff.

Please see the Kohm page history for detail.

 

At the time of its release the Kohm could fire up to 10 pellets at full spool, which coupled with the particle effects on its projectiles could result in considerable lag. Update 15.13 reduced the pellet count at full spool to 5, and increased the damage per pellet to compensate.

 

After that, it was changed again (stealth) to hit scan, 5 pellets at full spool with damage reduced from 77 to 30.

Edited June 2, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[BluelitHalo]

Before, it was 10 pellets with 3.33 units of ammo used at full spool, then 5 pellets with 1.67 units of ammo used at full spool. See the pattern? Your pellet count divided by 3 is the number of ammo units you use per shot.

Now, it uses 4 ammo units per shot at full spool, so it shoots 12 pellets per shot then. To confirm this, take a look at this image. It showcases a mod-less Kohm and a side-by-side comparison of two consecutive frames of a video recording I took: http://imgur.com/Ph5OyFs

You can count 12 damage numbers in that photo. If you have a difficult time counting them for yourself, look at the number of new 0's that appear in the rightward image.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Sonitorum

[(PSN)LIGHTNINGCOMBAT]

I wonder *cough* DE please see this! *cough* if we could have good Kohm back now that the optimizations were made for raids!

 

I mean the high damage, projectile based one with ricochet*.

 

*denotes that I'm not sure I spelled it right lol

Edited June 2, 2015 by (PS4)LIGHTNINGCOMBAT

[[DE]Grzegorz]

No, it is not 12 pellet.

Kohm is my main weapon. It is 5 pellets at full spool without multishot.

10 pellet was at the age that it had projectiles and before damage buff.

Please see the Kohm page history for detail.

 

At the time of its release the Kohm could fire up to 10 pellets at full spool, which coupled with the particle effects on its projectiles could result in considerable lag. Update 15.13 reduced the pellet count at full spool to 5, and increased the damage per pellet to compensate.

 

After that, it was changed again (stealth) to hit scan, 5 pellets at full spool with damage reduced from 77 to 30.

Does this pic give me bragging rights?

 

You are using wiki page, that part is clearly out of date.

In the current state, as of U16.6 Kohm has 12 pellets per shot cap and uses 4 units of ammo.

[aerosoul1337]

Before, it was 10 pellets with 3.33 units of ammo used at full spool, then 5 pellets with 1.67 units of ammo used at full spool. See the pattern? Your pellet count divided by 3 is the number of ammo units you use per shot.

Now, it uses 4 ammo units per shot at full spool, so it shoots 12 pellets per shot then. To confirm this, take a look at this image. It showcases a mod-less Kohm and a side-by-side comparison of two consecutive frames of a video recording I took: http://imgur.com/Ph5OyFs

You can count 12 damage numbers in that photo. If you have a difficult time counting them for yourself, look at the number of new 0's that appear in the rightward image.

 

I know it's divided by 3.

But may I ask when did you take that video?

Which update changed it to 12?

Edited June 2, 2015 by aerosoul1337

[BluelitHalo]

I know it's divided by 3.

But may I ask when did you take that video?

Which update changed it to 12?

 

I took it right after U16 hit, and it hasn't felt any different ever since.  

It's technically consuming the correct amounts of ammo, but it's a little higher now.

Edited June 2, 2015 by Sonitorum

[aerosoul1337]

I took it right after U16 hit, and it hasn't felt any different ever since.  

It's technically consuming the correct amounts of ammo, but it's a little higher now.

 

Well, your image is quite convincing.

Then someone should update wiki page :p

Do you know the max pellet count of Kohmak?

[xCaptainObviousx]

Well, your image is quite convincing.

Then someone should update wiki page :p

Do you know the max pellet count of Kohmak?

Last time I checked it was 2 as base and 6 at max spool.

[(PSN)MrNishi]

Kohm got nerfed and buffed a few times, and after last optimization Kohm's final pellet count is 12 per shot and uses 4 units of ammo per shot.

  

Before, it was 10 pellets with 3.33 units of ammo used at full spool, then 5 pellets with 1.67 units of ammo used at full spool. See the pattern? Your pellet count divided by 3 is the number of ammo units you use per shot.

Now, it uses 4 ammo units per shot at full spool, so it shoots 12 pellets per shot then. To confirm this, take a look at this image. It showcases a mod-less Kohm and a side-by-side comparison of two consecutive frames of a video recording I took: http://imgur.com/Ph5OyFs

You can count 12 damage numbers in that photo. If you have a difficult time counting them for yourself, look at the number of new 0's that appear in the rightward image.

These seem in-line with Kohm on PS4.

Oddly, we got the hit-scan (stealth) change to Kohm before the PC players*

Pistol Ammo Mutation is a must on any mission with Waves/Rounds or survival. Even Mobile Defense seems to need Ammo mutation for Kohm to be used as a Primary.

(IMO)

[oriam]

You guys helped me a bunch, but there still things that i would like to know:

 

I know that the Kohm has 12 palletts and consumes 4 ammo at full spool, but how many shots does it need to reach full spool?

 

I know that the Kohmak has 6 palletts at full spool, but how many ammo does it consume at full spool, and how many shots does it need to reach full spool?

[shadows49]

i was about to say this seems wrong but after testing i did find that at max spool on unmodded kohm it consumes 4 ammo but releases 12 pellets.

[BluelitHalo]

Good to hear that the pellet count hasn't changed. I neglected to test that again, after U17 and the Shotgun changes hit.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Sonitorum

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Kohm used to be the best shotty but with a huge drawback, terrible ammo efficiency.

 

Now, others shotguns easily outclass Kohm in pretty much every regard at much lower cost.

 

Kohm is a crap tier shotgun as of now.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Mofixil

[-N7-Leonhart]

Kohm used to be the best shotty but with a huge drawback, terrible ammo efficiency.

 

Now, others shotguns easily outclass Kohm in pretty much every regard at much lower cost.

 

Kohm is a crap tier shotgun as of now.

 

Completely not true. Those brand new buffed shotguns certainly have a lot of damage per shot, but Kohm still outclasses them in a couple of aspects:

1. Innate punch-through and huge magazine with low reload. Therefore removes the need for a Seeking Fury entirely, the slot which is then used for the ammo mutation. When used right, you will not run out of ammo before 1h in T4 surv (I know I don't), even with the mandatory +90% fire rate;

2. Very high DPS (burst and sustained) due to being full auto and very high damage per shot (~1100 DPS unmoded). At full spool it does 360 damage per shot, and coupled with a Shotgun Spazz (+90% fire rate) that is mandatory for Kohm, results in very high killing speed.

 

It's true and frustrating that Kohm got no buffs while the others did, but I still can't find a weapon that kills 5 lvl 95 Heavy Gunners, all at once, faster than Kohm.

Edited August 19, 2015 by -BM-StormVanguard

[[DE]Grzegorz]

2. Very high DPS (burst and sustained) due to being full auto and very high damage per shot (~1100 DPS unmoded). At full spool it does 360 damage per shot, and coupled with a Shotgun Spazz (+90% fire rate) that is mandatory for Kohm, results in very high killing speed.

Kohm has comparable DPS to its peers while using ~4x more ammo to achieve the same result.

 

it surely has 360DMG (+crits) at 3.67RPS for base, resulting in about ~1321.2DPS burst, which is just slightly ahead of Hek (1140DPS burst) and  behind Tigris by quite a lot (2100 burst DPS).

 

However, Kohm achieves 360DMG at the cost of 4 ammo per shot, while both Hek and Tigris achieve respectively 525.1 and 1050DMG per unit of ammo.

 

In damage per shot, Kohm is comparable to Sobek, while in terms of DPS it is about the same level as Hek.

However, it's ammo efficiency is much worse than any other shotgun in the game.

 

On top of all that, Hek has completely insane Scattered Justice augment, making it superior to every other shotgun in the game.

 

Kohm has it's niche in crowded areas, full of enemies that die from 3 shots at most, past that, Hek, Tigris, even Sobek are superior choices.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Mofixil

[stoybot]

For an in-debt look at Kohm, how it compares to other shotguns, and why it's not a viable option for high level play despite its amazing dps, have a look at this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/506390-hek-tigris-kohm-shotgun-showdown

 

TL;DR: The ammo consumption of Kohm 3.0 is horrendous.

[BluelitHalo]

Completely not true. Those brand new buffed shotguns certainly have a lot of damage per shot, but Kohm still outclasses them in a couple of aspects:

1. Innate punch-through and huge magazine with low reload. Therefore removes the need for a Seeking Fury entirely, the slot which is then used for the ammo mutation. When used right, you will not run out of ammo before 1h in T4 surv (I know I don't), even with the mandatory +90% fire rate;

2. Very high DPS (burst and sustained) due to being full auto and very high damage per shot (~1100 DPS unmoded). At full spool it does 360 damage per shot, and coupled with a Shotgun Spazz (+90% fire rate) that is mandatory for Kohm, results in very high killing speed.

It's true and frustrating that Kohm got no buffs while the others did, but I still can't find a weapon that kills 5 lvl 95 Heavy Gunners, all at once, faster than Kohm.

^

Plus, these perks synergize well with damage boosting abilities, like Chroma's Vex Armor or Rhino's Roar. With a weapon that has a massive magazine like the Kohm, you're able to take advantage of the ability for mostly its full duration before recasting. Meanwhile, with the Hek and Tigris, you're reloading throughout half of the ability duration, which doesn't provide as much benefit for sustained DPS.

Even without damage buffers, it still grinds meat with barely any effort. I get the feeling that many nay-sayers just don't know how to manage the thing, or build it.

For an in-debt look at Kohm, how it compares to other shotguns, and why it's not a viable option for high level play despite its amazing dps, have a look at this thread: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/506390-hek-tigris-kohm-shotgun-showdown

TL;DR: The ammo consumption of Kohm 3.0 is horrendous.

Testing on a single enemy doesn't reflect the true nature of endless gameplay. Kohm still has the highest capability to spread out damage on crowds, especially crowds of cannon fodder, and kill them quickly. More kills means more piles of ammo dropped.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Sonitorum

[aerosoul1337]

Kohm used to be the best shotty but with a huge drawback, terrible ammo efficiency.

 

Now, others shotguns easily outclass Kohm in pretty much every regard at much lower cost.

 

Kohm is a crap tier shotgun as of now.

 

Not crap but the throne has moved for sure.

Unnecessary nerf for its falloff range.

Against enemies below level 50, even atomos can out-perform it easily.