Ember Is Broken In So Many Ways

[Doughalo2]

1. if you not host the timer for accelarent doesn't work

 

 

2. her ultimate releys on to many aspects of power modding, and the base duration wrecks it                                       (look at mirrage base duration higher, thus it works fine)

(duration, range, strength and efficiency AND POWER DRAIN, AND INITAIL DRAIN)

 

 

3. Comparative to about every frame in the game her powers are weaker, even if you through in accelerant as a buffer

   

. Fire Ball has tiny range, low damage, and lilttle CC ; suggestion make its range like a napalm bomb with flames staying for a duration after, and much wider range affecting groups e.g to affect more such as volts shock...

 

. Accelerant is fine leave it (just timer needs fix)

 

. Fireblast.. the ring should expand slowly after the initial, as a fire would through bush, and the augment should be an innate property of the fire (who doesn't panic walking through flames... only chuck norris)

 

.World on Fire: Again the augment should be innate, the fire should proc every plume of fire, and for the love of god the base duration needs an increase

 

Now every time I talk about the ultimate the ember fans always say its good, yea well its not good, if you play all frames regularly and notice the difference.

 

Take mirage for example her BASE duration for her max level ultimate (prism) is 12 SECONDS. yea plus the energy drain and toggle, now ember also has energy drain and toggle BUT her base duration max 10 SECONDS

 

"but doughalo2, ember is only drained at 5 per second, and mirrage at 10/s" yes thats true so on paper embers ult looks reletivly ok BUT,the explosions only occur 2 times every 4.5 seconds... thats 1 every 2.25 seconds !!!! The spawn rate in warframe is so astronomical that this is the worst ultimate hands down in the game... plus coupled with the fact there is virtually no crowd control (a low fire proc chance) and fire is a short CC anyways...

 

ok so i read the wiki wrong its about 4.5 plumes per second in this case it should be 10 !! or even 15 as it is much to slow...

 

A buff the is needed is 100% fire proc and 5 blasts every second or 10! plus ember should light herself on fire and any enemies you run into should burst into flames and run around frantically setting others on fire ! That is an ULTIMATE

 

Her range is also bad ! 15m with the slow plumes when excal gets 25m with instant death AND STUN TO EVERYTHING IN LOS... the world is meant to be on fire, not  15m2 of it or watever probs a circle, and thats post excals nerf :O \

 

WHat about removing the time restraint, then as we use world on fire, it drains, and is rather nice again :D

 

Take the atomos for example... it does 1000% more dps, cc, damage and looks sexier than her ult, thats saying something, thats saying alot...

 

 

Ember should also get 80% fire resistance because come on... fire is rare pls pls, i die as ember in fire and im like... logic just broke, rnjesus pls.............

 

P.S fire goes through ice globe (coldinside) ~ logic

 

water don't put out fire ~ logic

 

fixed a few mistakes glad you guys agree, almost all the comments this time agreed, last time was horrendous I though ember fans would want her to be better than to try protect her damaged state !! Oviously you guys play her lots <3 or dont cause shes brocken lol !! so happy :D

Edited June 4, 2015 by Doughalo2

[DazDaSpazz]

WoF is also more dangerous to use than Prism because Ember needs to be in hugging distance for it to work while Mirage can just throw her mirror ball into a room and forget about it.

[TheFalseEclipse]

1.yes it doesnt work

2.you already know mirage energy drain over ember.

3.Every? Not every

 

While certaintly your fireball idea is nice.... expect what will happen when you spam 1 and 1 only over the place?

--

bush? they are burning on the floor... without gasoline

 

But really? Wof explosion only 1 every 2.25 sec? I run using ember using wof and within 1 sec(ignoring the initial blast) im able to wipe around 6 enemies

 

You are playing logic within a game --.-- logic doesnt exist

[Elannor]

I agree. tho most people would rage and say: you stoopid cuz ember is perfect as CC char you dont know how to mod, why bother play warframe - how people will probably respond to this thread.

 

Yea, she good at CC, with 2 auguments on, which barely leaves any spot for actual modding. Both auguments SHOULD be the actual abilities. Beside, any LOKI with irradiating would top Ember at CC. So why bother using her as CC in the first place.

 

She was meant to be a damage frame. Now she is a hybrid of CC and low dmg. Which is the worst possible combination. I used to have fun with ember, before the recent huge WoF nerf. Her ultimate was @ 30 seconds for 150 energy and i could easily make a full power/duration build. Now? With the same build, 20 seconds with 250 energy consumption. Broken, as you said.

 

I am disgusted by the state of ember right now and that players actually LIKE her right now.. 

She was my favorite frame hands down, but the way I need to adapt to use her now is way too much. She is too different to use than before. 

 

So yea. 

I agree. 

Right now: EMBER IS BROKEN.

 

 

How broken? Hydroid may be better than her.. and that says a lot.. 

 

PLEASE DE NOTICE THAT YOU RUINED AN ULTIMATE!!! AT LEAST REVERT THE CHANGES MADE ON WOF!!!

EDIT: You took a frame that had a use in her 2, 3, and 4th skill and made it into a button 2 spammer.. the exact reason you nerfed other frames.. Logic +1

Edited June 4, 2015 by Elannor

[Kalvorax]

personally....WoF should be changed to what the caustic eximi units use...THAT is an Ultimate

[--Nef-Anyo--]

I dont play ember, when I do I have to agree with what has been generally said about her. WF which like ember should not get fire damage as they are fire themselves, frost is cold so why would he be effected by cold himself etc. I think the most balanced of frames which i use all of his abilties is nekros

[Vyrn]

I'm tired and shouldn't even be awake, so I'll just comment on one thing.

 

BUT,the explosions only occur 2 times every 4.5 seconds... thats 1 every 2.25 seconds !!!! The spawn rate in warframe is so astronomical that this is the worst ultimate hands down in the game...

This tells me you have never even used Ember's World on Fire.

 

My guess is that you got this from the wikia and just misread it.

 

"...and explosions occur at a rate of roughly 2 to 4.5 per second" is what the wikia says. Considering those are the same numbers you listed, I think it's safe to assume that's where you got it from.

 

Read it again. 2 to 4.5 per second. In other words, at worst, there's an explosion every half-second. At best, it's about a fifth of a second between explosions.

 

In my own experience, I'd say it's at least 3-4 per second. At least. I might not actively count, but I do know it hits a whole lot.

 

Edit: Okay cool, that's cleared up. That was just bugging me a bit >.>

 

And yeah, I wouldn't mind some touching up for Ember. Having three of her abilities rely on duration, two on range, and all on power strength (with WoF and Accelerant using all of them) really makes it difficult to build effectively for anything, especially with power efficiency to worry about. Boosting one often sacrifices another, so you're left with just a balancing act. If she's to remain in that state, then an increase to her abilities, whether with more CC (never a bad thing) or with raw damage (seems to be her focus) would definitely help.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Vyrnaazus

[Elannor]

 

My guess is that you got this from the wikia and just misread it.

 

Read it again. 2 to 4.5 per second. In other words, at worst, there's an explosion every half-second. At best, it's about a fifth of a second between explosions.

 

In my own experience, I'd say it's at least 3-4 per second. At least. I might not actively count, but I do know it hits a whole lot.

I agree. there was a mistake in his thread. but that does not make WoF a good ultimate to use. You cant get any build for it, moding for one will severely cripple other aspects of it. So, you are forced to use other skills, like her 2 and 3, making her a Spam char. A type of frame that we have too many so far and adds nothing to the game. 

 

I do play ember, I use her CC style or even mod her for WoF for exterminates because I`m bored of saryn, but she is not a good warframe. she is viable, with those aguments, but not good. Not Nova good, not Saryn good, clearly FAR FAR away from the prodigy she used to be before her first nerf almost 2 years ago.

 

It`s really sad, seeing your favorite become meh, then being nerfed into shelving hell where she gathers dust. I wish DE would stop doing this, but this is life, and life always takes everything that is good away from you.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Elannor

[Doughalo2]

fixed a few mistakes glad you guys agree, almost all the comments this time agreed, last time was horrendous I though ember fans would want her to be better than to try protect her damaged state !! Oviously you guys play her lots <3 or dont cause shes brocken lol !! so happy :D

[Elannor]

fixed a few mistakes glad you guys agree, almost all the comments this time agreed, last time was horrendous I though ember fans would want her to be better than to try protect her damaged state !! Oviously you guys play her lots <3 or dont cause shes brocken lol !! so happy :D

I do understand why people would deffend her 2 or 3rd skill, but when someone says Ember, as a total, is good, I cant help but facepalm. I`ve dealt with those people before. And i really dont think they are playing her, they just copy/paste what they heard on Wiki. I could bet all I`ve got that 90% of ragers dont actually main her. 

She is in a really sorry state and needs her 4th rebuffed. again. As you said, 2nd skill is ok, and 3rd would be amazing if the augument would be incorporated. But I just cannot agree with people that say WoF is good. 

[Coldmood_Viney]

Im playing Ember since release, nearly 3 years. My favorite. I like when she was god damn tanky-dps, sad she didnt live with this abilities for release melee 2.0. After armor buff she is pretty good for all missions, except of high-level defense and survival (40 min/40 waves+  T4). I like how her 1 2 and 4 skills works. Dont see usefull 3 skill, very low dps and cc. Mb total damage buff would make it better for 60 lvls +

 

Perhaps I can only agree with the buff fire resistance (and 3 still useless). In any case, it would be possible to make an interesting passive ability that frame.

Edited June 4, 2015 by medusa_JDS

[Doughalo2]

Im playing Ember since release, nearly 3 years. My favorite. I like when she was god damn tanky-dps, sad she didnt live with this abilities for release melee 2.0. After armor buff she is pretty good for all missions, except of high-level defense and survival (40 min/40 waves+  T4). I like how her 1 2 and 4 skills works. Dont see usefull 3 skill, very low dps and cc. Mb total damage buff would make it better for 60 lvls +

 

Perhaps I can only agree with the buff fire resistance (and 3 still useless). In any case, it would be possible to make an interesting passive ability that frame.

you dont think having such short duration even with mods (corrupted make it worse) short range, initail energy, energy drain and timing is bad ??

 

for the ultimate

Edited June 4, 2015 by Doughalo2

[Coldmood_Viney]

you dont think having such short duration even with mods (corrupted make it worse) short range, initail energy, energy drain and timing is bad ??

 

for the ultimate

i like her ultimate right now. i have 10 seconds with pretty good damage. low cc yea, strange augment (i think it must be already inluded, not just augment), but i think it just need damage buff.

[Ryjeon]

Three things I'd like on Ember:

 

*Higher duration on World on Fire, that I agree with OP and the others who suck at playing Ember in this thread.

*An Augment that increases energy Efficiency or team synergy. I like the idea of giving enemies who die when affected by  Accelerant a chance to drop Energy Orbs.

*An Armor Melting Augment. Banshee got one and her abilities aren't restricted to buffing one damage type.

 

Overall I think the suggestions of the OP are pretty good. Though he obviously sucks with her if he thinks she's brokenly unusable. It's especially funny when people say WoF was massively nerfed since it has considerably more damage and usability with the faster cast time, vastly increased status chance, and extra blasts on cast. Note I'm only saying you guys suck because you're pre-emptively calling out anyone who defends or likes Ember. Otherwise I'd be in pretty good agreement with OP. But I generally don't have a problem leading my teams in damage, cc-pressure, and survivability.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Ryjeon

[Ironlixivium]

     Yeah, she is. Imo they should just give her more cc (make her fireblast and WoF augs innate), and make some massive reductions to her cast time, also make all her abilities castable while moving. This would make her an amazing cqc frame. It's the easiest way to bring her up to par imo. 

[Hypernaut1]

i guess i dont see the huge problem with Ember when i can complete all content just fine with her (getting most kills, most revives, damage dealt even). I think people underestimate her damage abilities. I find that WoF combined with Accelerant is still highly effective in endgame content. It doesnt drop off as fast as many other damage ults.

[Latronico]

personally....WoF should be changed to what the caustic eximi units use...THAT is an Ultimate

 

WoF should be change to what Sargas Ruk's ultimate ability is. In other words, the exact same except for the fact that explosions are bigger and the range is larger.

 

About Ember herself, the only things she needs, as I already wrote on every other Ember threads, are:

- debuffs that doesn't cover each others (fire procs covers stuns and vice versa, knock downs are covered by fire procs and so on)

- remove Duration from WoF

- let Fire Blast be affected by Range

 

Those are the only things she needs. 

[Ryjeon]

    also make all her abilities castable while moving. 

 

This is a suggestion I've never heard before that I think is really good. I'm constantly moving while playing Ember because I utilize slide+hop-casting which isn't necessarily an intuitive technique to the game. But staying in motion is an important aspect of Ember's kit. I think making her abilities usable while staying in normal movement could help give players a better clue as to how to get more out of her. Maybe even a little speed effect during World on Fire could aid this.

 

They seem to be planning to fix Excalibur so that his abilities can be used fluidly while on the move. I think Ember would benefit from such a QoL change too. Ember's my preferred frame to play currently but she has a lot of potential for improvement.

Edited June 4, 2015 by Ryjeon

[ThePresident777]

+1, OP.  Ember is a nerf special project.

[TimFlint]

Yeah, her skills can be useful, depending on the situation, but there's very little synergy between them. They all seem to be tailored towards different power attributes, with the final nail in the coffin being her ultimate that would need ALL power stats to be effective. They also seem to be tailored towards different playstyle, with really no common ground between them and none of her power being excellent at... anything really.

And that's the big, BIG problem with Ember:

 

"Other frames do it better".

 

Ember doesn't excel at anything. She's one of the worst choices or even downright THE worst choice for most of the content. She's decent enough against infested, but even there other frames outperform her. Her damage falls off rapidly once enemies reach 20, 25+, her utility is downright minimal, she has short ranges on her skills but not enough speed, armor, HP or defensive skills to get into and fight at that range, no synergies with other players unless they pack heat damage (not a favourite dmg type). There's really never a reason to pick Ember over any other frame - even with her supposed strength against fleshy stuff... other damage focused frames do it better.

 

Take a look at other frames that also don't neccessarily excel in any one area, but make up for it by being really frickin' decent overall, say Loki or Nova. Now neither of them is currently a "must have" for high-end content, but they're still played a LOT. Why? They're always decent choices. Their kit offers moblity, utility and crowd control, what's not to like? It doesn't matter what mission type, what enemy type, they have the tools to be decent enough at damn near everything.

Other frames may be more specialized, tailored towards defensive stuff or towards offensive stuff. They may not be the ultimate best choice either, and many have problems themselves with a bit of useless kit here and there, but they get used because they're really good at what they do and, within their field, can duke it out with the best of them.

 

But Ember? There's simply no mission, no enemy type where her kit of powers would stand out as awesome and overall she's just too weak. No reason to play her other than "I like how she plays". And I do, I like throwing fireballs, punching the ground for fire explosions or going LEEEEROY with WoF. It's really, really fun, and yeah she *can* be made usable... kinda, but other frames do everything she does. Only farther, faster, cheaper, more powerful, more effective, more reliable.

 

I'm hoping for a complete rework. Dear DE: Scrap her powers, start from scratch with a concept for a frame, with a role that is useful. Design her from ground up for ... something, anything. But either make it specific, so she's really fricking good at that, or give her a variable kit so she's decent enough at a lot of things. I don't mind. Just don't throw any more half-assed utility or CC augments at her or "buff" her skills any more. She's had enough buffs. Fix her.

Edited June 4, 2015 by TimFlint

[Latronico]

Meh. Accelerant is a good buff for both her and her team. That's her most important ability and the ones that makes her viable. So I wouldn't say she's useless and can't do anything. 

The only problem with Accelerant is that it's used as a CC ability, instead of a buff. That's the point.

[BlueThingy]

I'd like to see World On Fire turned into a power like Hysteria and the new Excal ultimate.

 

Excal = Range mode

 

Valk = Melee mode

 

Ember = Powers mode

(and then no more "ultimate transformation" powers ideally, or at least only super original ones)

 

So while it's running her energy regeneration goes into overdrive and her basic attacks are now fire abilities.  Everything leaves flaming trails and patches so when she's done the world really is on fire.

[Dubious.Wisp]

Besides the doom and gloom of the OP. 1,2,4 are fine the way they are. Fine for low level plays. Bad scaling in relation to the enemy level, but thats another discussion.

 

My gripe is with fire blast. Did you know that I actually get annoyed when I accidentally press fire blast? I'm like "God damn it, I just wasted energy...ughhh."

 

What's the point of this skill in a game where movement is its glory? Why not have ember leave a trail of cinders behind her as she walks for a few seconds. I cannot even justify using the augment.

[Elannor]

Besides the doom and gloom of the OP. 1,2,4 are fine the way they are. Fine for low level plays. Bad scaling in relation to the enemy level, but thats another discussion.

I know she is ok for low lvl units.

What I`m pissed of isnt that. Its her lack of viability at higher levels. Almost every frame is good at low lvl. (almost, some excel in high lvl), but what I`m asking is to bring ember to the level where she can be viable at endgame as well. (end game = lvl 60+ enemies)

[Snake]

Ember is such a cool looking Warframe and the Prime Codex is so rich with lore. Its too bad the late game and her usefulness don't seem to match up.  Part of the fun with Warframe's is using your powers. I can take her too the late game but using her abilities don't really do much for her there. If I wanted to to play just a 3rd person action game without abilities I would but this is Warframe. Ninjas press 1,2,3, and 4 and magic happens. After Modding; When the magic is meh, I typically use a different frame.

 

I liked the idea of scrapping and starting fresh or reworking her abilities. Maybe even visually. Till then she is just another "Star Map Warframe".

Edited June 4, 2015 by 5nak3Doctor