May 19Th: Hot Feedback Topics

[Unknown924]

true, but it's not really worth the risk, esp for 75 energy, that's the biggest factor. for 25, or even 50 it'd be worth it imo, but at 75 it's way too expesnive (and a fragor jump is has a better risk/reward imo)

Well, I did another run and Fragor jump knock down has almost the exact same range as a base Radial Blast.

I agree that 75 energy is too much. Switching the old Iron Skin and Radial Blast would have been much better for the Rhino than what this patch did.

[cyrus106]

This makes me somewhat uneasy for some reason since Rebecca said "change" instead of restoring....Q _Q

 

That word scares me......

Because the old Rhino was broken. You really think 3+ minutes of invincible iron skin is BALANCED?

 

Let me break it down for you.

 

Streamline maxed gives you a power cost of about 40

 

Flow gives you about 275-300 power max

 

Continuity increases the Duration by 3-5 seconds

 

....a team with energy siphon = 2 energy regenerated PER second.

 

...let's see.

 

Say I have a rhino, with 300 energy. Just as an example

 

Ok I cast Iron skin

 

260 energy left, it immediately starts regenerating

 

Ok let's say that iron skin lasts....15 seconds.

 

15 times 2 is 30, so I'd have regenerated 30 energy.

 

I now have 290 energy.

 

Let's say I NEVER picked up an orb (and they're everywhere)

 

if my math is correct, that is THIRTY casts of invulnerability.

 

15 seconds * 4 is equal to a minute

 

15 seconds * 30 casts = 450 seconds.

 

450 seconds = 7.5 minutes.

 

That's 7.5 minutes of invincibility, without touching a single orb.

 

You think that's fair? Balanced?

I know it's fun to feel empowered  but iron skin DESPERATELY needed a rework. If you feel I am wrong, give me a valid point and perhaps I will agree with you, I always welcome second opinions.

 

tl;dr: 7.5 minutes of potential invincibility =/= balanced

Edited May 21, 2013 by cyrus106

[GroxXx777]

...

 

People alredy said this countless times, it needed to be fixed so it was less spamable. Adding energy costs or cooldown was the answer, not taking invulnerability out.

[DoG69]

Im very glad that DE is adressing all the complaints, specially the Rhino one, thank you very much guys! 

[cyrus106]

People alredy said this countless times, it needed to be fixed so it was less spamable. Adding energy costs or cooldown was the answer, not taking invulnerability out.

Ok. but the lad I was responding to clearly asked for it to be changed back to the old iron skin. 

Edited May 21, 2013 by cyrus106

[KvotheTheArcane1]

Ok. but the lad I was responding to clearly asked for it to be changed back to the old iron skin. 

well, if they don't fix the rest of his abilities (from being subpar), then yeah, old IS back, as that's what made rhino balanced/worth taking. But no, it could use a CD of like 10-15 seconds or an energy increase to 75. or eng increase to 100, but a slight duration increase (imo).

[Xylia]

A "Future Plans" thing would be EXCELLENT.

 

IMO, it is the #1 thing a Developer can do that players LOVE -- being able to offer their input on huge changes coming to the game before they get released.

 

More pairs of eyes are always better -- some players might see or think of something the developers didn't. Can't listen to the players Every Time about Everything, however, it is always good to get input and then act on said input accordingly.

 

Players feel like they have more influence on the game, and the developers get that "Second opinion" which allows them to make more carefully thought out decisions rather than "ok let's try this... oh crap that didn't work very well" type scenarios like how Rhino Skin and Soundquake wound up playing out.

 

I am VERY glad to hear this.

[Rabcor]

Excellent thread overlord!

The only feedback i can give in relation to this topic is.

1) The RNG system is designed for being fair for you if you're waiting for one item to come in the Alerts, or if you're killing a boss awaiting a drop of blueprints for your warframe. It is not particularily fair when it comes to rare mods, and it's not fair if you need not 1, but 3 parts to drop from alerts, meaning you need to be awake and playing at the time these parts come, and those parts are rare as all hell! since blueprint alerts are rare.

2) The game right as it is now is kindof silly. The content/gameplay is geared towards low/med level players, the market is geared towards high-level players. High level players have little to do, Low level players are overwhelmed with market prices and underwhelmed due to lack of variety of weapons they can buy early on.

3) After update 8, i suggest you, DE, focus all of your attention on making the game's start "noob-friendly" what i mean by that is, make tutorials. Proper and short tutorials and make them well. balance the game for beginning players (Saturn, Mercury and Venus, as-well as market pricings and variety of guns to buy for low prices, this was actually decent before.) Make it easier for new players to "ease" into the game.

I'd suggest making a brief gameplay tutorial that shows off the basic functionalities of gameplay such as wall running, then in the menu enable hints that can be toggled on/off, and make a quick tour of the menus. When i say quick, and when i say short i really MEAN it. Everyone hates long tutorials, and nobody likes tutorials that expect you to have remembered everything (hence hints)

Why: The game is on Steam now. it's been advertised on the biggest game market in the world, and you made the mistake of doing so before making a proper tutorial. This could easily have been fatal but proved not to be(Not fatal, but if it had been done before then the playerbase would probably be about 50% bigger than it is now, i'd wildly guess.) Hurry up and make the tutorial because if you don't, the playerbase will be more likely to shrink rather than grow.

Edited May 21, 2013 by rabcor

[BigSchmexy]

Because the old Rhino was broken. You really think 3+ minutes of invincible iron skin is BALANCED?

 

Let me break it down for you.

 

Streamline maxed gives you a power cost of about 40

 

Flow gives you about 275-300 power max

 

Continuity increases the Duration by 3-5 seconds

 

....a team with energy siphon = 2 energy regenerated PER second.

 

...let's see.

 

Say I have a rhino, with 300 energy. Just as an example

 

Ok I cast Iron skin

 

260 energy left, it immediately starts regenerating

 

Ok let's say that iron skin lasts....15 seconds.

 

15 times 2 is 30, so I'd have regenerated 30 energy.

 

I now have 290 energy.

 

Let's say I NEVER picked up an orb (and they're everywhere)

 

if my math is correct, that is THIRTY casts of invulnerability.

 

15 seconds * 4 is equal to a minute

 

15 seconds * 30 casts = 450 seconds.

 

450 seconds = 7.5 minutes.

 

That's 7.5 minutes of invincibility, without touching a single orb.

 

You think that's fair? Balanced?

I know it's fun to feel empowered  but iron skin DESPERATELY needed a rework. If you feel I am wrong, give me a valid point and perhaps I will agree with you, I always welcome second opinions.

 

tl;dr: 7.5 minutes of potential invincibility =/= balanced

So if you have maxed out rare mods and a full team running energy siphon he does that pretty specific circumstances and a lot of people don't spam IS the use it situationally  

[Mak_Gohae]

true, but it's not really worth the risk, esp for 75 energy, that's the biggest factor. for 25, or even 50 it'd be worth it imo, but at 75 it's way too expesnive (and a fragor jump is has a better risk/reward imo)

 

But you look so cool doing it. Cool factor counts for a lot.

 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

But you look so cool doing it. Cool factor counts for a lot.

 

-snip-

very true...

Edited May 21, 2013 by KvotheTheArcane1

[Zarozian]

Because the old Rhino was broken. You really think 3+ minutes of invincible iron skin is BALANCED?

 

Let me break it down for you.

 

Streamline maxed gives you a power cost of about 40

 

Flow gives you about 275-300 power max

 

Continuity increases the Duration by 3-5 seconds

 

....a team with energy siphon = 2 energy regenerated PER second.

 

...let's see.

 

Say I have a rhino, with 300 energy. Just as an example

 

Ok I cast Iron skin

 

260 energy left, it immediately starts regenerating

 

Ok let's say that iron skin lasts....15 seconds.

 

15 times 2 is 30, so I'd have regenerated 30 energy.

 

I now have 290 energy.

 

Let's say I NEVER picked up an orb (and they're everywhere)

 

if my math is correct, that is THIRTY casts of invulnerability.

 

15 seconds * 4 is equal to a minute

 

15 seconds * 30 casts = 450 seconds.

 

450 seconds = 7.5 minutes.

 

That's 7.5 minutes of invincibility, without touching a single orb.

 

You think that's fair? Balanced?

I know it's fun to feel empowered  but iron skin DESPERATELY needed a rework. If you feel I am wrong, give me a valid point and perhaps I will agree with you, I always welcome second opinions.

 

tl;dr: 7.5 minutes of potential invincibility =/= balanced

I never said any of that. I just want the original Iron Skin back and some revamp/buffs to his other 3 skills, that way Iron Skin will only be used as a panic button.

[Zarozian]

But you look so cool doing it. Cool factor counts for a lot.

 

It kind of bothers me how all the grineer heavies have the same skills as us.................I feel so less special.........my only unique skills I could call my own would be Rhino Stomp and Iron skin.....

 

Now Rhino stomp is replaced by Vortex and Iron Skin is only 10% better than Ember's Overheat. =/

[ReiganCross]

It kind of bothers me how all the grineer heavies have the same skills as us.................I feel so less special.........my only unique skills I could call my own would be Rhino Stomp and Iron skin.....

 

Now Rhino stomp is replaced by Vortex and Iron Skin is only 10% better than Ember's Overheat. =/

I believe that is due to we being on the beginig of the development where they haven't clearly set what's a skill and what's just an animation that costs energy. (Namely, Shuriken is an animation of someone throwing a shuriken that ends up costing energy.)

Hell, even some skills are copied by Grineer, such as Switch Teleport. Isn't that suposed to be a ninja skill?

[Drakontis]

It kind of bothers me how all the grineer heavies have the same skills as us.................I feel so less special.........my only unique skills I could call my own would be Rhino Stomp and Iron skin.....

 

Now Rhino stomp is replaced by Vortex and Iron Skin is only 10% better than Ember's Overheat. =/

Except she can Focus it up to 91% and she has a DOT effect on up close units. Which sucks even worse for Rhino's. 

[KvotheTheArcane1]

It kind of bothers me how all the grineer heavies have the same skills as us.................I feel so less special.........my only unique skills I could call my own would be Rhino Stomp and Iron skin.....

 

Now Rhino stomp is replaced by Vortex and Iron Skin is only 10% better than Ember's Overheat. =/

unless ember has a maxed focus mod (which has been dropping like candy on xini for me)

[Mak_Gohae]

I believe that is due to we being on the beginig of the development where they haven't clearly set what's a skill and what's just an animation that costs energy. (Namely, Shuriken is an animation of someone throwing a shuriken that ends up costing energy.)

Hell, even some skills are copied by Grineer, such as Switch Teleport. Isn't that suposed to be a ninja skill?

 

Well, the story shows that everyone is using Orokin tech to some degree so maybe they have adapted some parts and this is why some folks have the same powers.

[.Fyr.]

How about LOOT RADAR..still wont showing Mods Yellow Dots..

[MIRROR_ell]

One of the things that I'd like to point out is the infeasibility of using combo/aspd melee attacks at higher levels. This forces melee players to pick high charge damage melee weapons due to its clearing efficiency and mods that empower charge attacks, instead of catering to either attack speed AND charge attack weapons.

Edited May 21, 2013 by MIRRORenn

[Loswaith]

Some food for thought on Rhino:

Warframe is primarily based around co-op, so in in essence a 4 warframe team.  Lets assume you have the option of choosing the 4 warframes for your team.  Honestly now, how often does Rhino end up as a member of your 4 Warframe team with the original Ironskin? How often in a 2 or 3 Warframe team?  How often is he on the shortlist, even?

Sure Rhino was ok solo, but how does that impact you in the slightest if you dont play him?

 

-----

For me personally I find it very hard to include Rhino on any team over another warframe with the invunlerability and only ever would include him as a wildcard position (ie. a spot that i am just filling out) as opposed to a dedicated position.  I will miss being able to use him as cover while he is in Ironskin however.

 

I dont realy care much for Rhino, it's simply too unsubtle a frame for my tastes.  It doesnt mean I think its OP, afterall Rhino still needs to go shoot/melee everything, unlike the many AoEs.  While Frost's Snow Globe (i dont consider this OP either) is still a better invunlerablity option, for the same 50 energy cost, and it is AoE so effectivly 4 people getting invunlerability for the 50 energy. 

I would also be hard pressed not to put Frost in most teams I would build, because of his sheer utility compared to other warframes.

 

On Sound Quake

I'm personally a big fan of the Sound Quake change, you now need to think about its use rather than being a run into the cluster and hit it (it was clearly one of the best, if not the overall best AoE).  Sure it could use being slightly shorter duration, but the range and pulse on it helps that not to be as much of an issue once you get used to it not being 'safe'.

 

On hot topics/developer topics:

Thanks for this one and I would love to see a developers one too.  Understanding what the developers are after when making changes or their design thoughts can assist in understanding why changes were made.

 

On marketplace:

While I agree credits needed to be looked at and increased. I think having the blueprints be a factor so eairly in weapon selection process makes them feel more akin to a hurdle/hoop you need to go through rather than feeling like an aspect indicating additional complexities of the intermediate and advanced play (the impression I got initially from them when I started out playing warframe, prior to the credits rewards increase). More detailed info here

Edited May 21, 2013 by Loswaith

[Dr.Z3R0]

So glad to see a game actually listen to its community Bravo!

[Phoenix86]

@DE_Rebecca: I noticed that the livestream has been delayed by 1 week, does it mean also update 8 will be delayed by 1 week or not?

[dukarriope]

Could I respectfully add my why-Rhino-should-be-buffed suggestions topic to everything? I know there are plenty already, but hey, I did take the effort to organize some points I thought were valid.

Edited May 21, 2013 by dukarriope

[Rabcor]

How about LOOT RADAR..still wont showing Mods Yellow Dots..

And lockers...

Edited May 21, 2013 by rabcor

[Jackuri]

The 80% damage resistance while using Rhino's Armor ability is fine but he should be immune to poison, pushback from lasers, and melee from enemies while using the ability to accomodate for his super slow speed.