Nerf Daiky Until It No Longer One Shots Squisher Frames

[-InV-igo95862]

It is still rediculously overpowered. Extremely easy to use. Hold it until you get a point blank shot - easy hits. If your opponents can't face tank an arrow you get an easy win.

[Vargras]

It is still rediculously overpowered. Extremely easy to use. Hold it until you get a point blank shot - easy hits. If your opponents can't face tank an arrow you get an easy win.

You can't hold the Daikyu's charge for longer than 5 seconds or so.

[AlphaSierraMike]

.... they might as well remove it from the PvP listing if that ever happened.

 

Just strafe, don't run in a straight line at the guy. Also, you could just do something about not getting into that close range engagement...

[R3DBelmont456]

It's bad enough that you cannot fire it til it's fully charge,  have to wait 2 seconds to charge it, and now you want it to be outclassed by the MK-1 paris in conclave? (which it practically is...) This weapon is where it belongs now, a projectile like Bolt action Sniper that actually requires aim this time... the tactics to use this weapon may be very accessible to anyone, but to get kills with this weapon now either requires that you headshot (since everyone nowadays uses frames that can take a hit from it...) or you combo into it. I've started using it in conclave and it has to be one of the most annoying weapons to get kills with because if you miss then the other people will usually just spray you down with either a boltor, a braton or just melee spam you to death... most of the time people who get punished by this weapon are those that relentlessly pursue the user, also it's anti Valkyr... what more do you want, Nothing but valkyr spamming noobgake, furax, dual swords and hysteria?...

Edited June 8, 2015 by R3DBelmont456

[-InV-igo95862]

It's bad enough that you cannot fire it til it's fully charge,  have to wait 2 seconds to charge it, and now you want it to be outclassed by the MK-1 paris in conclave? (which it practically is...) This weapon is where it belongs now, a projectile like Bolt action Sniper that actually requires aim this time... the tactics to use this weapon may be very accessible to anyone, but to get kills with this weapon now either requires that you headshot (since everyone nowadays uses frames that can take a hit from it...) or you combo into it. I've started using it in conclave and it has to be one of the most annoying weapons to get kills with because if you miss then the other people will usually just spray you down with either a boltor, a braton or just melee spam you to death... most of the time people who get punished by this weapon are those that relentlessly pursue the user, also it's anti Valkyr... what more do you want, Nothing but valkyr spamming noobgake, furax, dual swords and hysteria?...

 

LOL Outclassed by MK-1 Paris. MK-1 Paris can't one shot. You actually need to folow it up with something.

[R3DBelmont456]

LOL Outclassed by MK-1 Paris. MK-1 Paris can't one shot. You actually need to folow it up with something.

 

*Derp Derp* you need to do the same damn thing with the daikyu now... the only frames it cannot reliably oneshot are volt, chroma, frost, and rhino, which is nearly all you see in Annihilation these days. Not to mention, with good aim, other weapons outclass it due to how difficult it is to get kills in head-on engagements, it's the only bow that actually requires strategy to use, like any sniper would... Yeah you would call hit and run tactics nooby and cowardly, but you try pelting someone with one shot every two seconds while they spray you down or melee you to death with a weapon that will kill you in 1.5-2 seconds... Don't forget that light frames can STILL get one shot by a paris (derp)

Edited June 8, 2015 by R3DBelmont456

[-InV-igo95862]

*Derp Derp* you need to do the same damn thing with the daikyu now... the only frames it cannot reliably oneshot are volt, chroma, frost, and rhino, which is nearly all you see in Annihilation these days.

See, Daiky makes squishier frames unviable. It needs to be nerfed so you don't get hard countered by picking anything outside those four.

[R3DBelmont456]

not necesarily, you can still destroy using lighter frames, you just need to move around more and not just sit there ADSing your rifle like a chump... of course you'll get one shot. And FYI, lightframes are pretty much destroyed by anything, one tigris shot to the chest, one Gram Slam (yum...), one headshot from the Lex, the noobgake, the furax, the MK-1 Freaking Braton for crying out loud...

[rockscl]

what about playing the squishy frames accordingly to their weaknesses, like avoiding close quarter combat by example

Edited June 8, 2015 by rockscl

[DrBorris]

Or we could make squishy frames equal to the tanky ones by buffing Daikyu's damage to one-shot them all. And point blank kills easy? Sure, if the opponent is standing still :/ If you are point blank then it requires less distance for the opponent to move for them to completely exit your range of view. If you see someone with a bow drawn, do you think it is a good idea to stay in place?

 

I will try to appease the anti-one-shot people with a suggested nerf to like a five ammo maximum, but it does not need any more.

[Lord_Noctus]

what about playing the squishy frames accordingly to their weaknesses, like avoiding close quarter combat by example

yes absolutely right... different frame = different playstyle. As example volts abilitys 1st 2nd 3rd makes him perfect for sniping or support team with the augmentations even in close quaters Edited June 8, 2015 by Lord_Noctus

[Cerenax]

I have recently made a post showing that, as it is, even the Mk1 Paris is more than twice as good as the Daikyu:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/470615-mk-1-paris-is-op-compared-to-daikyu/#entry5242396

[.Talia.]

The Daikyu is fine. 

[Rakshal]

Uh, how about no.

 

Nerfing it to that point would make it the most useless bow in PvP.

 

.... they might as well remove it from the PvP listing if that ever happened.

 

Just strafe, don't run in a straight line at the guy. Also, you could just do something about not getting into that close range engagement...

Basically this.

[Thalahssalyst]

Im agree to OP.
Skilled or not, eventually, we are going to se  all people  with bows on pvp because 1 shot.

[-InV-igo95862]

You can't hold the Daikyu's charge for longer than 5 seconds or so.

 

Lies. I just crafted Daiky and tested it. You can hold it indefinitely.

[-InV-igo95862]

It's bad enough that you cannot fire it til it's fully charge,  have to wait 2 seconds to charge it,

 

Another lie. You can shoot it not fully drawn.  (probably lag caused that in one instance)Then follow up with 1 for guranteed kill.

 

 

Daiky lobbism is strong on this forums.

Edited June 9, 2015 by igo95862

[taiiat]

well, riddle me confused when i press submit edit and now there's Posts that aren't here anymore. i suspect why, however.

- - - - -

sounds like the usual from people in PvP shooters complaining that a Sniper Rifle being able to Kill with a low number of shots (generally one with a Headshot, standard stuff - these Bows in PvP trade needing Headshots for having Charging) is Overpowered.

meanwhile, when creating a balance scheme that's usually called being viable and not useless compared to other Equipment choices due to the negative facets that allow that low number of shots to Kill.

- - - - -

just like people will complain that Shotguns in a PvP Shooter can Kill in say, two shots. and they'll complain that it's therefore better than their Assault Rifle that Kills in 5.

which is funny, since their Assault Rifle shoots at 900RPM or so, and that Shotgun, while it shoots a spread and can more easily Kill in two shots, has an RPM more around 200.

what is generally not realized, is that more than one number is related to stats. dealing more Damage but shooting slower doesn't make it Overpowered, it makes it different. in fact, most of those Chainsawing Assault Rifles in PvP Shooters have a TTK that's significantly lower than the Shotgun. so it's even funnier WHEN they also complain the Shotgun Kills faster too.

proving a balance concern requires more than just stating you don't like something. explain why it is the case. 'can oneshot' is NOT an explanation, nor is that showing a problem.

if you don't explain your reasoning, don't expect anyone to agree with you.

Edited June 9, 2015 by taiiat

[AprilFools]

Lies. I just crafted Daiky and tested it. You can hold it indefinitely.

That seems to be a recent, undocumented change (as far as I know). You used to not be able to hold it longer than 5 seconds. I wonder if this is intentional or not.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

i hope this is a troll

[rockscl]

daikyu has not charge limit anymore, i hope it is a bug

[Nighttide77]

Another lie. You can shoot it not fully drawn. Then follow up with 1 for guranteed kill.

 

Daiky lobbism is strong on this forums.

 

Wellp...looks like the Daikyu got a stealth buff, lol.  The Daikyu's charge can be held indefinitely.  However, it still takes foreverrrrrr to charge, and has a 0.6 reload speed.  For some reason, being able to indefinitely hold a charge makes it feel...balanced again...

 

And....it still cannot be fired partially charged, so that little tidbit has remained.

 

Daikyu being able to one-shot half the frames but not the other half is still acceptable due to its long charge time, inability to fire partially charged arrows, and noticeable flight time that can be dodged beyond medium range.

 

Lesser armored frames do still have the benefit of being a little faster and mobile than heavier ones...and seemingly smaller hitboxes.

[-InV-igo95862]

 

Lesser armored frames do still have the benefit of being a little faster and mobile than heavier ones...and seemingly smaller hitboxes.

 

You know that most mobility comes from melee which does not depend on warframe

[Nighttide77]

You know that most mobility comes from melee which does not depend on warframe

 

That...actually helps the point most Daikyu users are trying to make...thanks, I guess.

[-NyriX-]

Alright, I'm gonna start by saying a straight off NO.

 

First of all, I never really saw the reasoning behind the Daikyu in the first place. The charge time and mechanics of it simply made up for the damage. If the opponent know's you're there, its much more difficult to hit, because quite frankly, the daikyu is rather easy to dodge and deal with simply because of the charge. Especially now with the nerf.

 

Second of all, (currently), the fact that the daikyu two shots the tanks is quite frankly annoying. Oberon, Frost, Volt, and the others, are very frustrating to deal with. For example, I shoot the daikyu and I hit. I leave the guy with 10-30 hp (depending on the frame), he panics, and runs away to find a health orb before I can even load or hit another shot, whether it be with my daikyu or melee. This is especially frequent with more experienced players. The second option, which is THE most annoying, is that you hit the guy, leave him with 10-30 hp, and he runs away, damages you a bit, and BAM outta nowhere uses an ability, at which you're basically screwed. Example? Sure! I hit a frost, he runs, he uses freeze, well guess what? I'm f***ed! Typically the players just spam something, or make a follow up combination to finish you off before the daikyu user can even counter. There's just no mercy with the daikyu against tanks. Its simply stupid. 

 

Third of all, regarding the squishier frames, I find it beneficial that the daikyu 1 shots them. Why? Well here's why. The squishier frames are usually casters - Mag, Excal, Nyx, Ember, and Valkyr* (*doesnt really apply to the argument due to abilities*), will simply destroy you if you miss your shot/have to do a follow up shot to chase. Already as it is, dealing with the spams of the tankier frames is pretty stupid. 

 

Fourth of all, don't go accusing someone of lying without actually having tested the weapon yourself or learning the facts. Yes, the delay time to release is infinite now for some odd reason, but you CANNOT pre-release the arrow, so I have NO idea what you're talking about. If you pre-release the arrow, it will only fire AFTER the entire load is done. Continuing on this point, sure, the daikyu now has infinite delay time, but hell... it has nothing to do whatsoever with the nerf or any relation to the fact that it needs more nerfs. 

 

Comparing the viability with this weapon to others, this bow is sadly not viable at all. You'll simply get demolished trying to use it. Even if you can one shot the lighter frames, all the players these days do is spam abilities... its hard even now to get a shot in. 

 

Fifth of all, adding to the difficulty of getting a shot in, even if this bow has one of the fastest base travel times, it still has a travel time. Now, without Terminal Velocity, or the "insanely f***ing rare !" PvP equivalent, its even harder to get shots in, and you're more likely to miss - leading to your death. I find it strange that people recommend camping to fire this thing as a solution to the problems listed... sure there are some points that can be solved, but I don't find it a viable solution. Taking the current travel time, it's hard enough to make a CQC shot. Imagine a long range shot. OH but wait, now with the nerf, you need TWO shots to kill the tanks. and now you're proposing TWO shots for EVERY frame? No thanks. BUT WAIT.... THERES MORE!

 

Sixth of all, along with the damage nerf of the daikyu, there was an ammo cap nerf. "Ammo pool is now capped at the amount of ammo you start with." This means that the daikyu is stuck with 10 shots. 10 shots..... 10..... shots....... This completely destroys the option of camping to shoot, and also enforces the argument of having to shoot multiple times to kill a single tank is rather pointless, obliterating almost any possible viability of this weapon. Its hard enough dodging their abilities and not getting killed, and now I have to factor in the point that I'm about to run out of ammo? GREAT! but no thanks once again. 

 

Conclusion? NO. This weapon has no need for a nerf. If anything, all the evidence points to it needing a buff up to where it was before its nerf. 

 

EDIT: Going back to the whole point of holding the click button for whatever duration it was, didnt have much of an effect simply because it created the habit of pressing r if no target was seen. After using the daikyu since it came out for pvp, I became accustomed to pressing R and reloading every couple of seconds. If I hadn't read this post, I would have honestly continued pressing R without ever even finding out that the charge delay was infinite. This just leads me to believe that the fact that this was change is rather useless for the overall argument - just a final opinion.

Edited June 9, 2015 by -NyriX-