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[Suggestion] Change Alerts To Tenno Research


rhoenix
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That's a fair point, and a good argument for leaving Orokin catalysts & reactors as part of the Alert system as-is, instead of rolling it into the Research system. Nicely argued.

 

 

Oh, that's not exactly what I meant. But thanks :)

 

So lets try again:

If Mastery was dependent on weapon exp instead of weapon level ups, you could, say, level up your MK1 Braton to level 30, which is 3000 mastery points right now. After this point there is no point in using the MK1 braton anymore, Mastery wise. Any further exp you earn with the gun is wasted, and you wont get anything from it.

 

So what I suggest, is to have Mastery go by weapon EXP, not their level ups.

Let's say your level 30 MK1 Braton is at 1,000,000 exp, that amount goes towards your Mastery as well.

Now let's say you make a few thousand more kills, and it's at 2,000,000 exp. Your gun is still going to be level 30, but your mastery will have increased by one million exp. (And perhaps leveled it up a bit)

 

With that system in place, you dont have to keep trying out new weapons (if you dont want to), and you can still earn higher mastery levels, and in turn new Orokin catalysts/reactors.

 

It also makes sure that only leveling a gun to lets say, 20, is less rewarding (Mastery wise) than leveling it to post 30, simply because level 20 doesn't require as much exp as 30.

 
 
I'd also like to add that I am impressed by how modular your idea is. DE can choose to swap out almost any of the additions posted here for something that is more probable to work in the real world. It's not like the entire idea would be a bust based on one flaw.
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Oh, that's not exactly what I meant. But thanks :)

 

So lets try again:

If Mastery was dependent on weapon exp instead of weapon level ups, you could, say, level up your MK1 Braton to level 30, which is 3000 mastery points right now. After this point there is no point in using the MK1 braton anymore, Mastery wise. Any further exp you earn with the gun is wasted, and you wont get anything from it.

 

So what I suggest, is to have Mastery go by weapon EXP, not their level ups.

Let's say your level 30 MK1 Braton is at 1,000,000 exp, that amount goes towards your Mastery as well.

Now let's say you make a few thousand more kills, and it's at 2,000,000 exp. Your gun is still going to be level 30, but your mastery will have increased by one million exp. (And perhaps leveled it up a bit)

 

With that system in place, you dont have to keep trying out new weapons (if you dont want to), and you can still earn higher mastery levels, and in turn new Orokin catalysts/reactors.

 

It also makes sure that only leveling a gun to lets say, 20, is less rewarding (Mastery wise) than leveling it to post 30, simply because level 20 doesn't require as much exp as 30.

 

 

I'd also like to add that I am impressed by how modular your idea is. DE can choose to swap out almost any of the additions posted here for something that is more probable to work in the real world. It's not like the entire idea would be a bust based on one flaw.

This is the basis of an interesting idea of what one can do with weapon mastery instead. There are interesting possibilities for how the game can reward players for weapon use, and the current system in-place is a good foundation for several.

As for this research point idea, thanks - I'll just admit that it took some sketching out on paper before I posted it here. There are a number of potentially moving parts, and I wanted to make sure they were accounted for.

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I like this system (although it is nothing new: "Tokens") but it has 1 major flaw. Maybe you can change it accordingly to get rid of it:

 

"Tokens(or Research Points) give steady progress. Which is done in MMOs mostly. I think they are very bad. Again everyone gets everything with spending time. There is no lottery. A casual or new player should be able to get a super unique item while a long-time or hardcore player didn't have the luck. This is what makes games like D2 so great. If you implement tokens the long-time players always will have the advantage!"

 

 

There needs to be some kind of RNG so casuals can have an advantage over hardcore players with luck.

Make the acquired research points be a hidden reward of the alerts and a random number:

 

1000-8000 research points randomly AFTER the mission. (only shown after the mission)

Edited by Thypari2013
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I like this system (although it is nothing new: "Tokens") but it has 1 major flaw. Maybe you can change it accordingly to get rid of it:

 

"Tokens(or Research Points) give steady progress. Which is done in MMOs mostly. I think they are very bad. Again everyone gets everything with spending time. There is no lottery. A casual or new player should be able to get a super unique item while a long-time or hardcore player didn't have the luck. This is what makes games like D2 so great. If you implement tokens the long-time players always will have the advantage!"

 

 

There needs to be some kind of RNG so casuals can have an advantage over hardcore players with luck.

Make the acquired research points be a hidden reward of the alerts and a random number:

 

1000-8000 research points randomly AFTER the mission. (only shown after the mission)

I'd be okay with that, but wouldn't that mean that a player going into an Alert, with this system in place, would not see how much Research Points (RP) they'd earn?

Actually, in going from that idea, just having Alerts calculate the credit values and RP values separately would solve the problem nicely.

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I'd be okay with that, but wouldn't that mean that a player going into an Alert, with this system in place, would not see how much Research Points (RP) they'd earn?

Actually, in going from that idea, just having Alerts calculate the credit values and RP values separately would solve the problem nicely.

 

Yes that's what it is about.

Players should have the "gambling" feeling: "Wow and alert maybe this time it is a lot of research points. Let's do it!"

If they already know it is "Only 1000" they would never do it.

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Yes that's what it is about.

Players should have the "gambling" feeling: "Wow and alert maybe this time it is a lot of research points. Let's do it!"

If they already know it is "Only 1000" they would never do it.

Well, the "hidden" factor doesn't sit right with me. However, there is a way to solve this.

Basically, it would be a graph curve, going by thresholds - 2000 credit Alerts would generate 500 RP (25%), 6000 credit Alerts would generate 900 (15%), 9000 would generate 900 (10%), and the max of 12,000 credits would generate 900 (7.5%). Actual values within the thresholds would vary of course, but it would keep the RP value close to similar for each credit value.

Or, of course, the RP value could simply be determined randomly like the credit reward, but I'm not sure I like this approach - this has the chance of generating unattractive alerts, like 2000 credits and 100 RP. Few people would bother with that, even if the RP system was implemented.

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Can't we have both alerts and research? 

 

That way we could mix things up so some things (like potatoes) would still only drop from alerts, but some other things (like vauban blueprints and glaive) would be researchable.

Edited by rabcor
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Can't we have both alerts and research? 

 

That way we could mix things up so some things (like potatoes) would still only drop from alerts, but some other things (like vauban blueprints and glaive) would be researchable.

Sure - that's pretty much the conclusion the discussion has shown so far. Orokin Catalysts & Reactors will still be available at random through Alerts, but other items will be available for research, depending on player ranking.

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So this system is like farming alerts in order to gain progression on the chosen item you are researching? 

Giving reason to do alerts and having a sense of progression... I like it.  Unless I got the wrong idea.

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So this system is like farming alerts in order to gain progression on the chosen item you are researching? 

Giving reason to do alerts and having a sense of progression... I like it.  Unless I got the wrong idea.

No, you got the right idea. It's meant to give more weight to the lower-level Alerts, give people more reason to play any one given Alert, and offer more of a sense of progression toward a rare item for players.

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Well, the "hidden" factor doesn't sit right with me. However, there is a way to solve this.

Basically, it would be a graph curve, going by thresholds - 2000 credit Alerts would generate 500 RP (25%), 6000 credit Alerts would generate 900 (15%), 9000 would generate 900 (10%), and the max of 12,000 credits would generate 900 (7.5%). Actual values within the thresholds would vary of course, but it would keep the RP value close to similar for each credit value.

Or, of course, the RP value could simply be determined randomly like the credit reward, but I'm not sure I like this approach - this has the chance of generating unattractive alerts, like 2000 credits and 100 RP. Few people would bother with that, even if the RP system was implemented.

 

That's why you don't show the player what the reward is. Hidden stats are in every game, and they are there to make the players curious. This should be implemented in this system as well.

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That's why you don't show the player what the reward is. Hidden stats are in every game, and they are there to make the players curious. This should be implemented in this system as well.

I'm still on the side of showing visible rewards for this system. Having something visible to work for always motivates me more than the unknown - and while not everyone shares my source of motivation, part of the thing I was trying to change about Alerts was to lift the veil of mystery without taking away the intrigue.

Therefore, unless given a good argument otherwise, I think that keeping the RP awards visible on a given alert would be more helpful overall than keeping them hidden.

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I guess I'm jumping in on this late... but why not do this?

 

1. Split alerts into 3 types of base research components. Eg. all weapon blueprints -> weapons. helmets ->helmets artifacts ->artifacts. Then after each will be a separate set of research points. Thus if you want to make a vauban helmet you need to do more helmet alerts Investing points from a weapon alert or artifact alert into a helmet research will still help, but less.

2. Replace the "research" bar with a breakthrough bar. The chances of having a breakthrough are increased as you get more points.. but sometimes a stroke of genius (aka rng) will help you get there a little faster.

3. Generate a random amount of research points required on an item by item basis. Until you get about half way (you wont know) exactly how far you are from completion. After the halfway point, you get an actual visual of how far you have left.

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Would anything be locked? Like for example, the Vauban came out recently so would you have to have specific requirements to start researching it? Or would everything be unlocked from the start?

 

also something like levels affecting your researching (rank 2 you can make reactors, at rank 5 you can make reactors faster or something).

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Would anything be locked? Like for example, the Vauban came out recently so would you have to have specific requirements to start researching it? Or would everything be unlocked from the start?

 

also something like levels affecting your researching (rank 2 you can make reactors, at rank 5 you can make reactors faster or something).

yea, would make mastery important again. Unlike now seems pointless.

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Would anything be locked? Like for example, the Vauban came out recently so would you have to have specific requirements to start researching it? Or would everything be unlocked from the start?

 

also something like levels affecting your researching (rank 2 you can make reactors, at rank 5 you can make reactors faster or something).

 

Mentioned earlier was the factor of making specific things locked via Mastery Rank. For example, the Glaive would be a nice goody for higher grades of Master Rank, though something simple like, say, Ceramic Dagger or the helmets we got already may be available right off the bat for research.

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Would anything be locked? Like for example, the Vauban came out recently so would you have to have specific requirements to start researching it? Or would everything be unlocked from the start?

 

also something like levels affecting your researching (rank 2 you can make reactors, at rank 5 you can make reactors faster or something).

As someone else mentioned, keeping certain types of items locked out from being researched until a player reached the appropriate rank seems like the easiest, and most concise way of limiting what's possible for a given player to research.

I guess I'm jumping in on this late... but why not do this?

 

1. Split alerts into 3 types of base research components. Eg. all weapon blueprints -> weapons. helmets ->helmets artifacts ->artifacts. Then after each will be a separate set of research points. Thus if you want to make a vauban helmet you need to do more helmet alerts Investing points from a weapon alert or artifact alert into a helmet research will still help, but less.

2. Replace the "research" bar with a breakthrough bar. The chances of having a breakthrough are increased as you get more points.. but sometimes a stroke of genius (aka rng) will help you get there a little faster.

3. Generate a random amount of research points required on an item by item basis. Until you get about half way (you wont know) exactly how far you are from completion. After the halfway point, you get an actual visual of how far you have left.

As much as I can appreciate the hidden nature of this, to me it runs into the issue of lack of progression again - preventing a player from seeing what they're working toward.

However, you had the idea of more randomness in terms of RP earned, which is something I do like. Perhaps keeping the 1/15th ratio of RP to credits would work as a baseline, plus a random amount - this way, you might receive a little more RP than you expect for a given Alert, or you might receive quite a bit more.

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Meek., on 21 May 2013 - 7:45 PM, said:

rhoenix, do you mind adding all the suggestions put forward so far in your first original post? So that it's easier to show what has everyone has given so far.

Sure - it'll just take me a bit to collate them all. I'll give credit to each user who made a suggestion, of course.
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Much thanks!

No problem - it helps as a reference.

So, at this point, most of the potential pitfalls of this system have been hammered out, with my thanks to everyone who's contributed their thoughts to this so far.

The only remaining issue that I can see is that of the Orokin Catalyst/Reactor blueprints, and whether or not they should be included in the Research system.

- The upside to including them is that it would make the resulting Alert system "cleaner", in only having to focus on credit value, research point value, and possible material value (assuming random material rewards are added) for a given Alert.

- The downside to including them is that it would make them easier to get, which would be a downside for DE in terms of potential real-world money being spent less.

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Yet another shameless bump of this idea.

So far, the only issues still not completely resolved to my satisfaction are the Orokin reactors/catalysts, and their availability. If anyone has any additional thoughts, I'd be glad to hear them.

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