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Draco Megathread


motorfirebox
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DE gave us tools and we just use them, also farm squads require minmaxed warframes with specific builds for synergy.

we're just using the tools DE gave to us, why should we get punished for it?

Punishment? What? If you find that your excessively efficient method being gimped in some way is punishment, you are likening yourself to a child who cries over the toy they intentionally broke.

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Agreed with OP, and he had very accurate reasons behind why some people grind the hell out of Draco, and people need to get off their high horses and accept it as a thing. I don't farm draco personally unless im helping a buddy grind, but that's my choice.

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I agree with OP...There definitely is a problem with corrupted mods like Fleeting Expertise,

and I also disagree.

The balance is way off and I for one am at the point of giving up on seeing that changed.

 

Last night I launched an infested defense mission and was sure there was a decent team (Including a Mag),

until Gmag just pulled...and I literally mean nothing else.

Up until this Saryn "press-4-to-win" players were the bane of my enjoyment and it's only getting worse.

 

The fact that players are happy with 1 button spam or 1 setup on a frame with 1 way to win pushes me ever further from the game.

DE has honestly given too much power to the community and their voice.

(I don't think it wrong...Only that they shouldn't be focusing on the constant QQ from players)

What was their baby is no longer!

 

The constant and steady stream of insignificant complaints is what is ruining this game,

because DE is so concerned with appeasing people who are greedy and selfish.

By all means there are some truly great players that are helpful, kind and awesome...but they understand the mechanics of the game, DE and real world and therefore have the ability to be patient and constructive.

 

This game is still open beta....how and why???

Because DE is trying to satisfy all the sad and salty issues, when they should be focusing on their original idea.

Warframe WAS amazing...but all of this bending to the will of others has taken the control away from them and will inevitably leave them with an incomplete mess (yes...incomplete).

All because players know that if they shout loud and long enough, they will find more selfish people like them to aid their desperate buff/nerf on WHATEVER they want.

This is undeniable regardless of your personal opinion. (but feel free to whip out your junk and wave it around)

 

The truly helpful players and people wanting to better the experience and game are far outweighed by the number of players who selfishly want "X" and people that constantly toxify 75% or easily more of constructive criticism, discussions and forum posts.

(because obviously 18 gif's of flogging a dead horse seriously help)

 

Back to the point of this post:

Efficiency isn't the problem and nor is it specifically the balance...It's the community and their power over DE, which is backwards no?

Games with a great community should find their synergy and balance but Warframe is starting to circle because DE cannot address what they need to without a plethora of whining and tears.

DE needs to take back control and honestly start to ignore the destructive and selfish human greed plaguing so much of their fantastic work. 

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Don't pretend like nothing is wrong with it.

 

It's fine when people are trying to find the fastest way to level, really. But when that method revolves around them sitting in one spot casting the same powers like it's going out of style, I personally feel like the integrity of the game is being undermined. I'm not saying "play the way I want, or else" I'm just saying you should actually have to participate in efficient farming/powerleveling methods.

 

Destiny's original loot cave comes to mind. Bungie didn't patch that because people were getting loot/exp too fast, they patched it because they didn't think that the most lucrative form of play should revolve around multiple players sitting in one spot shooting at a hole in the wall.

You state that there's nothing wrong with efficient strategies, but you don't like the most efficient strategy currently available because it's too efficient and requires too little work?  That's fine.  But what, then, would be an acceptable level of efficiency?

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Yes I am being sarcastic, and I don't think that mod did. That mod opens up choices on some frames, trade offs on others, and is a no brainer for the last few.

 

Yeah, it makes Mesa have an easy time Peacemakering, but without it people would find a different method, like adding trinity to throw energy vampire, or still abuse Gmags.

 

1 mod cannot cause or undo all of the problem you see, there are more sides to this story than you're willing to admit

 

The big thing about fleeting expertise, its the spending rate.

It's easy to replace fleeting with energy restores, its easy to replace it with Gmag or trinity, still, without the spending rate fleeting allows, any spam would be much more harder.

 

Still you are right, 1 mod cant simple change it all, still it would make a HUGE difference.

Even I dont like this idea, but at least I know its a big part of the problem.

Edited by 7grims
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What is the point of playing at all if the goal is to shorten the game?

The game is builded around farming and grinding to get materials. Are you even remotely serious when you ask that question? Must be Draco fault if all the loot/exp is crappy everywhere else right? 

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What is the point of playing at all if the goal is to shorten the game?

 

With no loot cave:

 

- Play for 20h to get something necessary done.

- Not much room for fun playing, you are either burned down or you simply lost the available time...

 

With loot cave:

 

- Play for 3h to get something necessary done.

- Play for 10 hours for fun...

 

Which do you prefer?

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Explain to me how this is NOT blatant exploitation.

 

https://youtu.be/kEvR43qCFOk

 

First off, it's no longer possible to do that afk (And have you tried to hit a target with energy vampire when everything is insta-gibbed? It's not easy.).  Second, it's unsustainable and slow.  It's possible to do interceptions indefinitely and quickly with a full team that knows what they're up to, but it's not that team.  There's a hard limit to how long it's worth playing that specific team, and that limit is when all your gear has reached max rank.  The Mesa/Frost/Gmag/Nekros team actually gains a reasonable amount of loot so there is a point in going further with that team than the team in the video you posted.  However, like I said, it's not sustainable since when the damage begins to fall off as enemies will be able to take the points, reach your team, and probably down you all at once.  A team intending to go indefinitely will be spread out and much less susceptible failure.

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Goal is to shorten the uninteresting parts of the game.

 

Like the time between sticking a forma on your favourite gun and that same gun stopping being utter S#&$.

Then what? What's the real point of maxing out your gears? There isn't one. There's no real goal in the game.

 

Shortening the unnecessary boring part if you ask me. If you run spy missions, you can rank your gears fast as well.

 

There is no real point in maxing out gears fast. I won't force people to not run draco, but really, there's no point to it.

 

I don't know why people call ranking "grind." The grind part is always the rng loot, and ranking is just something that comes along with gameplay.

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In no way you can compare the old farm strategies and the old abuses ppl used to do in warframe, and the specific exaggerated demands of X or Y frame only for T4 missions.

Draco took over the recruit chat, there is 10 times more "H draco & mesa+gmag" then there is any other recruitment for void, derelicts, other star chart nodes.

 

The draco problem is the same as the serration problem, if you think the serration problem is only about serration, then you are mislead.

 

Thats because Draco is currently the best lootcave. I guarentee if you remove Draco another will show up. After Viver people moved on to E gate. After E gate came Draco. Change or remove Draco then I'm 100% sure people will find another map and move on to there.

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I think this is a different issue.  The longer people play the game the more friends they make, and if they just want to play for fun they're probably going to play with those friends, since they know they have fun with them.  If I'm going to run a game and try to do something ridiculous or cheeky (such as doing a T4 or a raid with Mk.1 weapons) I'd rather be with people I know than with people I've never met before.  I know my friends aren't going to rage at me, get frustrated with me, or abandon me simply because I'm doing something unusual.  I don't have that guarantee with randoms.

 

This holds true in most multiplayer games, not just Warframe.  Try picking an off-meta champion in unranked League of Legends with randoms and see how much you get flamed.

 

You got a point...

 

You state that there's nothing wrong with efficient strategies, but you don't like the most efficient strategy currently available because it's too efficient and requires too little work?  That's fine.  But what, then, would be an acceptable level of efficiency?

 

I think a rank 3 Fleeting is about right...

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Then what? What's the real point of maxing out your gears? There isn't one. There's no real goal in the game.

 

Well, half of the starmap (not to mention trial) is just impossible with anything other than high rank weapons and frames. Because the way enemies scale in damage and resistance.

 

That's why people leave random groups at the very fist glimpse of numbers under 30.

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You state that there's nothing wrong with efficient strategies, but you don't like the most efficient strategy currently available because it's too efficient and requires too little work?  That's fine.  But what, then, would be an acceptable level of efficiency?

It's not my place to say what is acceptable, I'm not a dev, I simply point out what I think is not acceptable.

 

I don't think that sitting in one place and casting powers while all of your gear levels up even though you aren't using it is acceptable.

 

So, if you really must have an answer to your question, in my most humble of opinions, they need to severely gimp shared exp to promote actual use of the weapons you wish to level. If the weapon sucks, at least get a shot in and then finish the enemy off with your powers.

Edited by Kestral9999
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Thank you TheLongTwitch.

I guess you are the first one to take this tread as for what it is, a discussion, all other replies were a immediate "nop-nop-nop".

 

Hey now, I pointed out (correctly IMO) that changing the tool won't change the behavior.  People will try to farm no matter the tools they are given.  And part of it isn't even because of the grind or whatever.  How often do you see people begging for horde mode to be added to the game?  A lot of people seem to just want to play in a way that allows them to mow down legions of enemies without having to move much. DE doesn't want to do that, so all of their variations on horde mode have an objective like "protect X, gather y, hold z."  Unfortunately, the playerbase that wants a simple horde mode will continue to figure out how to cheese pseudo-horde modes into full objective-less horde modes so they don't have to do anything but stand and kill.

 

Removing tools that make it easier isn't going to remove the mentality, players will find a way, they always do.

Edited by Gelkor
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Well, half of the starmap (not to mention trial) is just impossible with anything other than high rank weapons and frames. Because the way enemies scale in damage and resistance.

 

That's why people leave random groups at the very fist glimpse of numbers under 30.

 

You mean ranking once to 30 is pretty hard in any other missions than draco? I don't know if people really play the game or not...

There are many ways to rank things 30. Difference in choices.

 

 

Draco is boring part of the game that I wouldn't touch. Like I mentioned before, the point of the game is fun gameplay for me.

 

There can be people having fun in Draco, so I wouldn't say that is boring straightout. But for me, it is. It takes out the point of the game and I am not touching that.

Edited by Chuck_NoMiss
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It's not my place to say what is acceptable, I'm not a dev, I simply point out what I think is not acceptable.

 

I don't think that sitting in one place and casting powers while all of your gear levels up even though you aren't using it is acceptable.

 

So, if you really must have an answer to your question, in my most humble of opinions, they need to severely gimp shared exp to promote actual use of the weapons you wish to level. If the weapon sucks, at least get a shot in and then finish the enemy off with your powers.

Oh yeah, butchering the way exp is shared is a really great idea. /end of sarcasm.

 

It's crazy the length some people will go to destroy something that doesn't really matter after all.

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So, if you really must have an answer to your question, in my most humble of opinions, they need to severely gimp shared exp to promote actual use of the weapons you wish to level. If the weapon sucks, at least get a shot in and then finish the enemy off with your powers.

 

That would be really bad for support frames like Trinity.

 

There is also the problem of funny way how affinity is shared between weapons, but if you removed that it would force everyone to go back to Earth to swing their rank 0 sword at stuff.

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You mean ranking once to 30 is pretty hard in any other missions than draco? I don't know if people really play the game or not...

There are many ways to rank things 30. Difference in choices.

 

I mean that going from rank 30 weapon to formaed rank 0 weapon is really not fun.

So people do Draco or T1/T2 defense, to shorten the unfun part ... Then move on to what they want to do with the rank 30 weapon.

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Thank you TheLongTwitch.

I guess you are the first one to take this tread as for what it is, a discussion, all other replies were a immediate "nop-nop-nop".

 

An absolute pleasure! =)

I enjoy good conversation...but the replies here only further my point on the toxisity of players and the community.

 

EDIT: I was going to further comment on people and their opinions ruining what could and would be interesting and constructive.

but you know what they say about opinions.......

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What's the point of arguing over this? They are already addressing this. Dynamic star chart will be the answer. Thu want to level fear, you need to play the game, not grind the same node.

I for one look forward to playing the game being the best way to level an item.

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-snip

 

Yah you make allot of sense.

I was waiting for the new star chart to radically change how the current warframe is, it would lessen the current exploit abuses.

But once that appends, its back to complaining how we got thousands of weapons and frames to level up, and no way to do it faster or in a healthy speed.

 

There are so many things DE needs to do to make all the core mechanic healthy, there is the serration problematic (that isnt just about serration), there is the non endless missions you aren't worthy or rewarding, there is the problems of leveling up and polarizing.

I truly feel the game as not improved since 2014, they only created more problems or unnecessary/unlikable features, and meanwhile the community also refined their talent for exploitation and meta obsessions.

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OP is conflating cause and effect.  People will always gravitate towards the most optimal way to farm.  Mesa and gmag farming are a result of this, not the cause of it.  With the way content is added to this game so often there will always be an outlet for that desire to farm efficiently.

Edited by Aggh
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What's the point of arguing over this? They are already addressing this. Dynamic star chart will be the answer. Thu want to level fear, you need to play the game, not grind the same node.

I for one look forward to playing the game being the best way to level an item.

Can't really say they're not playing the game... They are using what's given in the game.

 

But I would say they are forcing themselves to the boredom, even though to them, it's the opposite. They are removing the grind of leveling

 

To me that's the boring way, I will level gears the way I want. Let them too.

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