Draco Megathread

[EmptyDevil]

Goal is to shorten the uninteresting parts of the game.

 

Like the time between sticking a forma on your favourite gun and that same gun stopping being utter S#&$.

 

This makes sense and DE could just increase the XP rate on forma'd items.

 

The game is builded around farming and grinding to get materials. Are you even remotely serious when you ask that question? Must be Draco fault if all the loot/exp is crappy everywhere else right? 

 

Take your rustled jimmies somewhere else buddy. It's a question about why would someone want a short game, not an attack on your precious Draco. 

 

With no loot cave:

 

- Play for 20h to get something necessary done.

- Not much room for fun playing, you are either burned down or you simply lost the available time...

 

With loot cave:

 

- Play for 3h to get something necessary done.

- Play for 10 hours for fun...

 

Which do you prefer?

 

I would prefer neither because who the hell would play for 20 hours. There isn't anything in Warframe that would need 20 hours of farming to get unless you're desperate to max your mastery rank. With the loot cave, it wouldn't change a thing because i'd be burned out from cramming "20 hours" of work into 3 hours.

 

Let's not forget that almost everything you need to work for on Warframe has a time-wall, so unless you're spending plat like crazy, you shouldn't have a need to grind for that many hours.

[S7ORM]

 

If draco "ruins the game" can someone explain how?  I started getting back into warframe in about February, didn't even know Draco existed, never knew egate existed, never ran any of those grind tiles.  I have every frame except vauban, I'm MR 10 I think or something like that, have 90% of the star chart open, have run every type of void mission, have prime weapons, prime frames, corrupted mods, etc....  I have enjoyed a broad variety of the game and have never felt the people grinding away on Draco have hurt me in any way.  In fact, I finally ran draco for the first time ever on Saturday to get my Quanta Vandal to level 30 after its 3rd forma (the first 2 forma I lvl'd in the void).

 

How does draco ruin anything for anyone?

 

The following answers are not acceptible: "It ruins the game", "it's exploitative", "it's not how it should be", "it's not fair"  Please answer with HOW it ruins the game for people who don't run Draco.

 

It seems to me that the only problem with loot caves is that people complain about loot caves, DE nerfs something to fix it, and then the people who complain are now screwed because their favorite ability or mod got nerfed and they didn't even loot cave to begin with.  But if people would just let everyone play the way they want to play, DE wouldn't be under pressure to go changing a ton of abilities or mods and everyone can just be happy.

 

 

 

No, OP. You remove grind without touching any of the things you claim aren't a problem, and people still use those things to abuse the higher spawn rates of things they want. That's straight up S#&$ty for [DE]'s side of things.

What SHOULD happen, is that both those things should be changed, AND grind reduced to compensate the removal of the super-easy, non-interactive farming method.

Having something like Draco, Mesa, Gmag, Instant Radial death attacks... all it does it increase the need for Grind, because otherwise they would trivialize the gameplay time required to acquire everything.

A problem, absolutely. But not the ONLY problem.

The issue most players have with it is the lack on interactivity of this grinding method. Stand in one spot, hit one button. Push an arrow key once every 2 minutes.

Its not fun, and since it IS so effective, [DE] increases grind to compensate, which also affects those of us who are trying to play the game FOR FUN.

And no, that doesn't mean "Just reduce the grind" is an effective solution. Digital Extremes is a business, and if they were to reduce grind while leaving things like GMag+Mesa and Excal+Buff+Trin in the game, it would flatline the ingame economy -- and by extension, the plat sales -- by nature of supply > demand

 

[-InV-igo95862]

- Make you own game on the recruiting chat, and ask for non-metas

 

I never had any trouble recruiting because of Draco. (ofcause if you are not trying run some not rewarding mission)

[torsoreaper]

 

 

The major "grind" in my opinion is the RNG.  Running something 100x for a bow prime handle or a hydroid systems, etc..  Draco doesn't address any of that since all it drops is T4 keys.  Not sure draco and DE increasing grind are related.

[counterflux]

It's not really draco that's hurting us. It's the players that think draco is all the game has to offer.

 

When going to recruitment tab draco is the only thing you'll see. Sure I just ignore this like any other player that knows that warframe isn't really fun to play that way. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

What bothers me and most players is the players that just came from draco and friends and joins your mission (you hosted a void defence or just playing a random pub). They usually start with: "Hey, you pick mesa, I need mesa, I want GMAG!!!" While you just want to play this mission with the frames you have and have a good time. If you tell them that you'll usually get this answer: "Are you stupid?!? Listen to me I'm higher MR I'm better. You are a noob!" Not really fun right?

 

But there is more, there is the Mesa/ saryn/ gmag that joins the way underlevelled mission you're doing. Those people just ruin the game. They go to one spot and simply ability spam so that you can do nothing. No shooting enemies, not having the feeling you did something is just terrible. 

Ask them to stop? I did it, with no success. They ignore you or start ranting about how much better they are. And wandering off on your own is then the only thing you can do. But then they explode! Raging that you are stealing enemies and disrupting spawns.

 

Do they need a nerf then? Yes, absolutely. It's not really about finding easy ways to farm anymore. It's about making the ingame community good again. One of the best nerfs I find is just adding some minibosses to the map if you camp for too long, that are resilliant to these farms in some way.

 

I hope you can now understand how I and possibly a lot of other players think about draco.

Edited June 16, 2015 by counterflux

[Radford_343]

There is a problem?

 

Yes there is; the big time-investment needed to progress in this game. The players are good at coming up with solutions to this problem, this is just another one :)

 

DE may bring on the next "problem", the players will solve it.

[Kaotyke]

I dont have a problem with Draco, I've used it sometimes to max some weapons I find boring or a pain to level even though they are strong when fully modded and maxed (Torid, Amprex...), so all I can say to Draco heaters and supporters is:

 

I dont @(*()$ care.

[Siekier]

There are 2 kinds of draco treads:

 

Anti-draco treads:

Uses arguments, they discuss ideas, they see several solutions, etc

 

Pro-draco tread:

"its mah play style, let me play as i want"

"its a playstyle"

"how is hurting your, really how?"

"how is it bad?"

"draco is not a problem, simply isnt"

"if DE didnt want draco, they had removed by now"

etc

This is a steaming pile of BS.

 

So far I haven't seen many valid arguments on why Draco farming needs to be "removed", why it's a problem and how it's affecting gameplay of every other players. What I see instead, is refusing to even explain it and calling anyone who disagrees stupid.

 

This isn't a discussion if you're not even willing to discuss the issue with other side. 

But of course finding valid points is much more difficult than just jumping onboard the hate train.

[sh00chu]

The short answer is that it distills gameplay down to using literally 2 specific frames and one specific mod. Draco and other 'loot cave' type missions trivialize the other 20+ frames and ALL of the 200+ weapons in the game. 


 

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

Agreed completely. If Draco is "fixed," then we will find another place.

"The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting the outcome to change."

[(XBOX)BLK THORN]

After reading some of these posts here, I really understand why DE Steve said that the new star chart is going to upset a lot of gamers.

Edited June 16, 2015 by (XB1)BLK THORN

[nmuaddib]

 

I would prefer neither because who the hell would play for 20 hours. There isn't anything in Warframe that would need 20 hours of farming to get unless you're desperate to max your mastery rank. With the loot cave, it wouldn't change a thing because i'd be burned out from cramming "20 hours" of work into 3 hours.

 

Let's not forget that almost everything you need to work for on Warframe has a time-wall, so unless you're spending plat like crazy, you shouldn't have a need to grind for that many hours.

 

20h is a figure of speech, but it does take a long time to apply 5-6 forma to a weapon. It is a lot faster with a "loot cave". 

 

One thing is for sure, the best thing would be to have the most efficient way of leveling while you do normal gameplay, aka rewarding experience.

[torsoreaper]

It's not really draco that's hurting us. It's the players that think draco is all the game has to offer.

 

When going to recruitment tab draco is the only thing you'll see. Sure I just ignore this like any other player that knows that warframe isn't really fun to play that way. There is nothing wrong with that.

 

What bothers me and most players is the players that just came from draco and friends and joins your mission (you hosted a void defence or just playing a random pub). They usually start with: "Hey, you pick mesa, I need mesa, I want GMAG!!!" While you just want to play this mission with the frames you have and have a good time. If you tell them that you'll usually get this answer: "Are you stupid?!? Listen to me I'm higher MR I'm better. You are a noob!" Not really fun right?

 

But there is more, there is the Mesa/ saryn/ gmag that joins the way underlevelled mission you're doing. Those people just ruin the game. They go to one spot and simply ability spam so that you can do nothing. No shooting enemies, not having the feeling you did something is just terrible. 

Ask them to stop? I did it, with no success. They ignore you or start ranting about how much better they are. And wandering off on your own is then the only thing you can do. But then they explode! Raging that you are stealing enemies and disrupting spawns.

 

Do they need a nerf then? Yes, absolutely. It's not really about finding easy ways to farm anymore. It's about making the ingame community good again. One of the best nerfs I find is just adding some minibosses to the map if you camp for too long that are resilliant to these farms in some way.

 

I hope you can now understand how I and possibly a lot of other players think about draco.

 

I think this is one of the best answer that I have seen and I appreciate your actually making a real argument.  I haven't run into these people but your explanation seems plausible enough.  I think there will always be a loot cave so I wonder if some kind of rating system for players or a "do not match make me with the following" list would help alleviate some of the issues you describe?

This is a steaming pile of BS.

 

So far I haven't seen many valid arguments on why Draco farming needs to be "removed", why it's a problem and how it's affecting gameplay of every other players. What I see instead, is refusing to even explain it and calling anyone who disagrees stupid.

 

This isn't a discussion if you're not even willing to discuss the issue with other side. 

But of course finding valid points is much more difficult than just jumping onboard the hate train.

 

He doesn't have any valid arguments, that's why he resorts to insults.  Maybe he's a politician in real life?

[Tenno.Skoom]

 

If draco "ruins the game" can someone explain how?  I started getting back into warframe in about February, didn't even know Draco existed, never knew egate existed, never ran any of those grind tiles.  I have every frame except vauban, I'm MR 10 I think or something like that, have 90% of the star chart open, have run every type of void mission, have prime weapons, prime frames, corrupted mods, etc....  I have enjoyed a broad variety of the game and have never felt the people grinding away on Draco have hurt me in any way.  In fact, I finally ran draco for the first time ever on Saturday to get my Quanta Vandal to level 30 after its 3rd forma (the first 2 forma I lvl'd in the void).

 

How does draco ruin anything for anyone?

 

The following answers are not acceptible: "It ruins the game", "it's exploitative", "it's not how it should be", "it's not fair"  Please answer with HOW it ruins the game for people who don't run Draco.

 

It seems to me that the only problem with loot caves is that people complain about loot caves, DE nerfs something to fix it, and then the people who complain are now screwed because their favorite ability or mod got nerfed and they didn't even loot cave to begin with.  But if people would just let everyone play the way they want to play, DE wouldn't be under pressure to go changing a ton of abilities or mods and everyone can just be happy.

 

Personally, I don't think it ruins the game from a farming/exploit point of view. I think it ruins the game community. I've been running a lot of Draco recently with my Mesa to level my weapons and I have seen a lot of problems starting to arise.

 

First, it's promoting the elitist "You came to Draco on a lvl 25 Rhino. Newb...L2P" attitude. I have carried hundreds of people on my Mesa, and am happy to do it. I love that I helped someone get to 30, especially if its a new player trying to get into higher level content. But God forbid if I try to level my non-Mesa/Mag/Nekros/Frost. I've heard comments like "Wow...what a leacher! Have fun trying to find a squad to carry you" as the player leaves. This game has one of the best communities I have seen, but Draco seems to be where the dregs settle. 

 

Second, it's pretty boring after the first 10 or so runs. I have literally fallen asleep playing Mesa with my finger holding down LMB and my 4 active. I got pretty burned out on Warframe a couple weeks ago solely because I was running Draco so much. Totally my fault for not changing it up, but some people don't come back. They get burned out and start playing something else.

 

IDK...I don't think there is anything "wrong" with Draco, but I tend to see the darker side of Warframe there.  

[CrazyCatLad]

Really sick of Draco threads....also, wouldn't the amount of [negative] attention revolving around Draco prove that there is at least something wrong with the way that node alters the game.

 

LF DRACO MESA

LF DRACO MESA

LF DRACO MESA

LF DRACO MESA

Edited June 16, 2015 by Lanieu

[-InV-igo95862]

 

 

Do they need a nerf then? Yes, absolutely. It's not really about finding easy ways to farm anymore. It's about making the ingame community good again. One of the best nerfs I find is just adding some minibosses to the map if you camp for too long that are resilliant to these farms in some way.

 

 

 

Whats wrong with community now?

 

And mini bosses won't fix anything. They will ethier just add more farm to farmers (g3 should up not so long ago on my Draco, I got Brakk reciever) or make game even harder for non meta players. (like chages to Corrupted Ancients did nothing to camping, made it harder for non camping players)

[EmptyDevil]

20h is a figure of speech, but it does take a long time to apply 5-6 forma to a weapon. It is a lot faster with a "loot cave". 

 

One thing is for sure, the best thing would be to have the most efficient way of leveling while you do normal gameplay, aka rewarding experience.

 

I think DE should make forma'd weapons get an increased XP rate. Maybe stacking the XP rate per forma on that weapon or frame only as a solution. As for rewards, i believe that is also being changed with Starchart 3.0, so doing normal missions should be a lot more rewarding.

[(PSN)Crackle2012]

Hey all!  Please discuss all things Draco in this thread!

 

Thank you!

 

Also, Merging similar Topics.

[polarbearhammer]

"Everyone can just be happy."

 

People aren't happy with Draco. Whether they are right or wrong that's what is wrong with it.

 

Technically speaking, it's a dramatic shift in gameplay where the rewards do not match the effort required.

 

You start the game running around for cover as you mowed or cut enemies down one by one while occasionally using an ability to save your squad or take out a group of enemies.

 

In Draco you press one button and occasionally move one step.

 

The former example of gameplay can take you hours of missions in the star chart for the reward of an occasional new mod and if you're lucky a mod that actually allows you to try new content. After over a dozen missions you may be able to run a boss for a new frame or weapon. After several hours of this you will finally have a fully leveled weapon.

 

The latter example of gameplay grants you at least a dozen rare resources and probably fully leveled weapons in 20-30 minutes.

 

Successful developers like Blizzard and Bungie eliminate these inconsistencies eventually. DE would be smart to follow their example.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

The problem with Draco is that people are being rewarded for not playing the game. They have found a series of frames that synergize with each other in such a way as to reward them for not playing the game. The problem here isn't that Draco hurts people who don't use it; Draco is fairly easy to avoid, although the recruiting chat cancer is a real issue. The problem with Draco is that people are being rewarded for not playing the game. I really don't see how people being rewarded for not playing the game isn't an exploit. In Warframe's current state, the fastest way to level up weapons and frames/gain syndicate rep is to not actually play the game. I have no idea how someone could possibly not see that as a problem.

[Arcadiace]

Nothing wrong with it. I don't Draco, but I don't tell others what to do, either.

[Monsterwithin]

Let me rephrase that for you.

 

Other missions are unrewarding, limited by the amount of mobs and limited because they simply don't scale I could add that they are simply uninteresting too (but that would just be my opinion).

 

People are don't want to level faster just to level faster. They want to level faster because it the only freaking way to progress in this game. You want to forma? Level that weapon again. You want to get another mastery rank? Level those frames and weapons.

If the game had a decent progression system this would not be a issue. Sadly we are in Warframe where half baked content is "better" than anything fully built.

Agreed. It's not draco, it's overall rewards and mob spawns around the whole star chart, and people who play Draco don't ruin the game might I say.

[KirukaChan]

I've heard enough about Draco to know that I wouldn't want to play it. None of the "required" Frames are ones that I find particularly fun (other than Mag, but I don't use Greedy Pull nor do I even own a copy of it). But I'm not going to try to tell others that they shouldn't play Draco just because I won't touch it.

 

That, and I'm kind of already almost MR 19 and have everything I want from the Syndicates, so I can afford to take the progress slow.

[-InV-igo95862]

I think DE should make forma'd weapons get an increased XP rate. Maybe stacking the XP rate per forma on that weapon or frame only as a solution. As for rewards, i believe that is also being changed with Starchart 3.0, so doing normal missions should be a lot more rewarding.

 

Do you really think DE will reduce grind? After the series of stealth nerfes I lost any hope that they will do something for players. They will attempt to "fix" Draco and people will find a new loot cave.

[Ded_man]

Not to agree that Draco or lvlup squads are a problem. If you really are looking for a solution to your issues. Then Forma is the root to your problems.

No one that I know enjoys doing 3-5 forma's on their weapons and frames. It adds more repetition to an already repetitious game. Make the game more about the hunt. Hunting for a Forma drop that instantly allows adding or changing polarity without penalty. Obviously, drops would be RNG dependent, however gone are the days where players have a surplus of Forma and doing level up runs. Now they must hunt for Forma scattered throughout missions.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Ded_man