Draco Megathread

[Fafy]

And personally, I'd say a much a simpler fix would be to add more player interaction to Mesa's Peacemaker. Make it an ultimate somewhat similar to Excal's upcoming rework and Hysteria, let Mesa walk around with them but have to actually aim them herselves, made give it a minor compensation for now requiring actual aim.

 

And before any of you drop bombs on me for having a Mesa icon, I play Mesa as a run and gun frame, you'd be hardpressed and surprised to, if you ever end up in a game with me, to see me use Peacemaker more than twice. Since honestly, sitting in one place while a Gmag pulls energy to you feels highly uninteractive (Not only that, with there being ways to have the game think you're still holding down left mouse click just removes it even more). Of course that's just me, but I'd like to actually be able to aim and have control and be able to move in Peacemaker. Would be that last bit needed to put Mesa as my favorite frame.

 

As far as on-topic goes, I still don't believe that Fleeting Expertise is the problem, and even if it had to be removed, it wouldn't be as simple as just going "Lolfleetingexpertise no longer exists, have fun".

[R34LM]

Removing fleeting expertise will NOT fix anything. You are then punishing people who do not use Draco ritualistically for no reason.

 

Why do we spam abilities? Because we get xp from killing enemies. Why do people go to Draco then? Because there is a S#&$ ton of enemies, enough to lag your screen half the time. 30 to 40 enemies in just one moment, with more flooding into the map until the end. The mission itself is just mindless.

 

The real fix is to stop the situation, not the tools used to deal with the situation. Lower the enemy count, make non endless modes more appealing for xp. Or, change the star chart so that Draco does no exist.

 

The only reason Draco is so popular is because the only way to efficiently get a lot of xp is to just kill a bunch of enemies, which just goads thoughtless gameplay.

Edited June 16, 2015 by R34LM

[Latronico]

Greedy Pull costs 25 Energy. Using Flow it's not that hard to be able to spam it, with or without Fleeting Expertise. It's not necessary to continuosly press 1 for Mag, so it's not really a great loss. 

 

Furthermore, there are still abilities and mods that grants Energy (Trinity, Nekros and Oberon if people use Equilibrium), and Warframes who allow to camp (Vauban and Loki combo, for example, and Greedy Mag herself).

 

There is no need to have Mesa to be able to camp. People just need to have a good gun, a good pool of Energy and everything will be done. 

 

The game is gone too far to just remove something. Thing must change of course, but balance is the key word, not removal. 

Edited June 16, 2015 by Latronico

[ShortCat]

And personally, I'd say a much a simpler fix would be to add more player interaction to Mesa's Peacemaker. Make it an ultimate somewhat similar to Excal's upcoming rework and Hysteria, let Mesa walk around with them but have to actually aim them herselves, made give it a minor compensation for now requiring actual aim.

This. Infinite thumbs up for this. That is somthing I can call Ultimate Ability. Not just some colorful magic sparks and the room is empty.

[NitroGel]

To be fair, first and foremost spawning and enemy combat should be revamped. Not taking sides atm as im kinda new to the whole powerspam and quite enjoy it atm in my private games, i can see it getting old fast. But to be honest when past level 30 spawns are very very whacky. It only takes a moment to look the other way and 20 mobs have jumped you. The moment something spawns, you are tagged, bled and swarmed.

 

Dont get me wrong there are ways. Quite a few actually, but ability spam is promoted by the game itself with such over the top tactics.

[Latronico]

For example, about Greedy Pull, as I already wrote somewhere else: the problem with that mod is that the effect apply to the entire range of Mag's Pull, that is huge. It should work as every other augment, with a regular range (i.e. 25 meters, like Piercing Roar) or at least half of Pull total range. 

Just balancing (balancing, not removing) this augment things would change a lot. At least Mag should move her &#! around the map to pull everything, instead of camp on the same spot for 20 minutes/waves. 

[EmptyDevil]

They could just make the loot affected by LOS when Greedy Pull is used on it. That would encourage players to move about and not spam Gpull while afk or not playing.

[Latronico]

They could just make the loot affected by LOS when Greedy Pull is used on it. That would encourage players to move about and not spam Gpull while afk or not playing.

 

In open maps like Pluto, Void or ODD nothing changes, Mag just have to reach an high place and spam 1 as always. 

[Epicagemo]

What is this discussing really? Seems like feedback to me.

[TotallyLagging]

It won't solve anything. If you want to remove these 'exploits', then you'll have to rework energy. And abilities. And enemy spawns. And mission concept. This isn't the kind of problem that can be fixed by removing a few mods.

Even if they do remove Fleeting, there's still EV and energy pads. And if you remove those, Flow + Streamline alone will let you use your 4 at least 5 - 7 times, which should be enough to kill a bunch of enemies and refill your energy pool with orb drops.

And, I mean, considering that it took them months just to address a few weapons ( Braton Prime, S. Gammacor, R. Ballistica )... Yeah, we won't get that pretty balance change for quite some time.

Edited June 16, 2015 by TotallyLagging

[Zarozian]

I did say no one would want it.

You are absolutely right though.......=(

But the fleeting expertise is necessary for endgame....

[Trylobyte]

Seeing a lot of Draco hate lately, and for an understandable reason.  A lot of people think the Draco grind sucks away the gameplay experience, and in some ways they're right.  But so, so many of them miss where the root of the problem is and wind up making destructive, foolhardy, or bizarre suggestions about how to 'fix' it.  So I'd like to get something out of the way.

 

Draco is not the problem.

Mesa is not the problem.

GMag is not the problem.

4-to-win is not the problem.

 

Furthermore, they have never been the problem.  The problem predates all of them.  It's older than Mesa, older than GMag, older than Draco, older than 4-spam, older than beta, older than Warframe.  It's older than the Orokin and older than the Sentients.  It's a problem that's probably older than some players are.

 

So what is the problem?

 

The grind.  The grind is the problem.

 

I present to you two generic scenarios to help you understand.

 

Scenario 1

 

Imagine this.  I'm a player who is approaching endgame content - Raids. T4s, and other fun stuff.  I've already beaten 95% of the starmap, I'm already MR 10 or so, I've already got a bunch of frames and a bunch of weapons.  Now I want more, I want progression.  I get a shiny new weapon and I want to try it out, so I play a few missions and find I really like it.  But it's not suitable for endgame because it's not max level.  Then, since I am a smart player, I know I don't just need to get it to max level, I also need to put a potato on it.  Then I need to Forma it 3-4 times (5-6 if I have max-level mods) maxing it out again each time, so I can get all my mods in it.  Then it's ready for endgame.

 

That's somewhere between 120 levels (3 forma) and 210 levels (6 forma) for one gun.  I do not want to slog my way through half the starmap for the next week just to get the weapon to the point where I can use it for the content that's new and interesting for me.  I'm going to look for the fastest possible way to max it out right now so I can get back to doing what I actually want to do.  The method I use to do this has varied over the years, but right now it's Mesa, Mesa, GMag, Frost, on Draco.  So, since I want to actually use my gun to its fullest potential and see how it handles the endgame, I'm going to go through that grind and get it out of the way in three hours of hard farming instead of three weeks of lumping around the ghost-town of a starmap with an underpowered gun.

 

What's the problem with that?

 

 

Scenario 2

 

Now imagine that I'm someone who's simply looking for progression.  Right now the only progression in Warframe is the mastery rank, a feature akin to levels in other MMOs.  Well, hey, I cleared the starmap already and I'm only MR 8 (Before you laugh, I personally cleared most of the starmap at MR6) but I see people regularly shunning me for my low mastery rank.  Maybe I should get some more levels.  Everyone wants to be a high level, so I start grinding mastery points.  Now, since I'm more than likely using weapons and frames I either don't like, don't want, don't have good mods for, or are underpowered, I'm definitely going to want to minimize my time using them.  I'm going to seek out the fastest way to max out the weapon for the mastery points then either shelve it or sell it so I never have to deal with it again.  This helps me raise my mastery rank, get into the 'big league' groups, and gives me that warm tingly feeling I get when I get levels.

 

What's the problem with that?

 

 

Scenario 3

 

I really like Warframe but I don't have a lot of time to play because of my job and my family.  I'd like to try out some new things, but I'd like to optimize the path for getting those things so I learn how best to spend my limited time.  When the weekend comes and I have a day free I might buy a booster with platinum so I can speed things up for myself.  When I farm resources, I run Dark Sector Survivals with Nekros and Hydroid.  When I need prime parts, I speed-run with Volt and Zephyr or I camp with Mesa and Nekros and GMag.  And when I need XP, I turn to Draco so I can quickly max out my gear and get it to the point where I need it.  I don't have much time after all and I'd rather spend as much of it as possible doing things I like instead of getting the things I need to get there.

 

What's the problem with that?

 

 

 

Think about this before you post another Draco-hate thread.  Do you hate Draco, really?  Or do you hate the fact that Draco gives people who don't enjoy taking the long road (like you probably did, or enjoy doing) a shortcut out of it?  Remember, the things you consider fun and enjoyable might not be what someone else likes doing.  Also remember that we're all only using the tools the developers gave us and within the framework they've provided for us - Any 'rules' you make about 'what MR should mean' or 'how you should gain levels' are as meaningless as anyone else's are until the developers say so. 

 

So sit back and think about your post before you make it.  What are you really complaining about?

Edited June 16, 2015 by Trylobyte

[7grims]

Draco is a problem, stop fooling yourself.

[SoulDust]

I never understood it. Some people speak as if this isn't a free world and others playing draco forces them to. You can go about warframe at any pace and route you want to. Every game like this has some spot, mob, or mission players farm over and over again because it's known to be the most effect/fast of grinding, or farming for something. Draco is nothing different

[torsoreaper]

Honestly people should be glad there is a Draco.  

 

1) Nobody will accidentally fall in there and get flamed since the draco team is frost, gmag, nekros, mesa.  That means all 4 slots are filled.  If you wanna pug draco that is possible.

 

2) Instead of having people who want to loot cave/exp grind going all over the solar system and potentially disrupting pugs on other tiles, these people have a set tile where they can easily organize and congregate.

 

3) Just in case you need to level up something quickly, you also have the ability to draco.  This is called "freedom".  People should be free to choose how they play as long as it's not hurting anyone else.  Draco doesn't hurt anyone else.

[Burnthesteak87]

The real problem are No-Life Nerds.
Grind is the only answer to a community asking for more and more.
Grind is a cheap feature to set up, while creating content requires a lot of time.

If you disagree write an alternative solution to keep people playing all the hours they would be playing for another reason.
Challenge accepted?

PS: Since people don't understand I will quote myself:

 

The real problem, that probably nobody understand, is that GRIND is the only answer to exagerate nerds, spending more than 1-2 hours per day on the game.

Nobody is able to produce that many content at the rate people consume it.

The contents you consume in 1-2 days have weeks of work on their back.

 

If you have to feed too many insatiable mouths you'll have to increase what they want to eat.

     

Cheaper food in greater quantities.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Burnthesteak87

[EversorNinja]

So true. A round or three of Draco is more fun than fighting Sargas Ruk 3 dozen times looking for Cells. It's not fun but neither is slower grinding... a fast grind lets me get back to the fun parts of Warframe sooner

 

The real problem are No-Life Nerds.

 

How are they a problem for you? Do they (we...) disrupt your life/gameplay at all?

Edited June 16, 2015 by EversorNinja

[CrazyCatLad]

I don't have a problem with the 'grind' to level up weapons. The grind for RNG to grant me a Bo handle or Loki Systems is my problem (I've been clamoring for a token system since the 1st days of the Void and I thought Baro was our salvation but I was wrong there. Irrelevant but yeah).  Draco won't alleviate that so therefore I still hate how Draco diminishes the point of the game.

 

What do I do about it?

 

Nothing. I don't play Draco and simply post occasionally on already made threads that I am not a fan of Draco.  Moving on...

 

 

EDIT: I am looking forward to the new Starchart so we all can just shut up about Draco.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Lanieu

[Chub_N_Tuck]

I don't understand how people go to draco and spam abilities when there's no real point to maxing out gears...

 

To me, the point of the game always has, and probably always will be, gameplay.

 

Spamming abilities sitting in one spot can soothe the grind, i guess, but it takes out the gameplay portion and buttonmash 4.

[RareMemeDealer]

"PLAY HOW I WANT YOU TO PLAY OR I'LL WHINE AND GET THE DEVS TO STOP YOU!" - Draco haters in a nutshell. Let people play how they want to, jesus christ. People playing Draco doesn't hurt you so get your panties out of a twist, for the love of god.

[Zarozian]

Draco is a problem, stop fooling yourself.

This^

So level up all your weapons quickly cause it's got to go.

[torsoreaper]

If draco "ruins the game" can someone explain how?  I started getting back into warframe in about February, didn't even know Draco existed, never knew egate existed, never ran any of those grind tiles.  I have every frame except vauban, I'm MR 10 I think or something like that, have 90% of the star chart open, have run every type of void mission, have prime weapons, prime frames, corrupted mods, etc....  I have enjoyed a broad variety of the game and have never felt the people grinding away on Draco have hurt me in any way.  In fact, I finally ran draco for the first time ever on Saturday to get my Quanta Vandal to level 30 after its 3rd forma (the first 2 forma I lvl'd in the void).

 

How does draco ruin anything for anyone?

[Altey]

Draco is a problem, stop fooling yourself.

Draco isn't the problem, stop fooling yourself.

OP is right

Edited June 16, 2015 by Altey

[Chub_N_Tuck]

"PLAY HOW I WANT YOU TO PLAY OR I'LL WHINE AND GET THE DEVS TO STOP YOU!" - Draco haters in a nutshell. Let people play how they want to, jesus christ. People playing Draco doesn't hurt you so get your panties out of a twist, for the love of god.

Us talking about on forums is fine though. It's not really forcing them to stop, it's a discussion. I honestly do not involve anything about draco/draco runners in game.

[rohver]

I didnt read all of it but when I saw the grind is the problem, I decided to agree and give a thumbs up. 

 

Thats how lazy we all have become.