Tonkor, Why U Hit So Hard?

[nekrojiji]

because people don't realize it's power.... or they just haven't modded it for crit xD

There are people that know the power Tonkor has .... but it's delivery is too clunky .... yes it's very powerfull but you will kill only 4~5 enemies with a clip, most of the times, I prefer lesser hitting weapons with more control over where the damage goes.

[Don_T_Shoot]

No it's not. Putting R9 Primed Fast hands which must reduce reload time by 50% for example on soma p from 3sec to 1.5sec - reduces it only to 2secs, Putting it on Boltor P reduces reload from 2.4sec to 1.6sec instead of 1.2sec, Putting it on Dread reduces reloading from 0.7sec to 0.5sec instead of 0.35sec Putting it on tonkor reduces reload from 2sec to 1.3sec instead of 1sec how it supposed to be, and with such low mag 1.3 reload is still too much for my taste. But i see that they fixed Fire rate mods for some weapons like Opticor maybe finaly i can try to play with it.

 

I know its obvious that reload time cant be decreased to 0 ofc, but in this case the gain which primed fast hands providing isnt that significant, if i will give this Tonkor a second chance in future i'll probably put something like Wildfire and Magazine Wrap in it.

 

(Oh no, someone is wrong on the internet, I must reply!)

 

No, sorry, you still don't understand speed vs time.   Fast Hands does not reduce reload time directly.  Never has.

 

It increases the speed. It says so right on the mod.  It has no direct affect on the time numbers themselves, it just speeds up the reload animation.  Which, will then have an affect on the reload time but not how you seem to think it should.

 

 

 

If you are traveling 30mph, it will take 2 hours to go 60 miles. 

 

If you equip a Rank 9 Primed Fast Hands on your car it will increase the speed by 50% and it will take 1 hour and 20 minutes to get there because you are now going 45mph.     Not 1 hour, but 1 hour and 20 minutes because the mod doesn't decrease the time by x% but increases the speed by x%.

 

rate = distance/time

 

Bottom line the mod works as it should, but you don't think it is fast enough.  That's fine but you cannot say that the mod is broken or doesn't work as advertised. 

Edited June 22, 2015 by Don_T_Shoot

[(XBOX)Lorewalker1022]

@ Don_T_Shoot - finally someone addressed the speed vs time issue. Very nice example. I'm glad somebody explained that cause people do have a confusion about speed vs time. Speed can affect the time it takes but it's not the same thing.

[SquidTheSid]

Why can't we leave the Tonkor alone? Yes, it deals a buttload of damage, but aiming with it can be very tricky, and its two round magazine and 2 second reload punish missed shots greatly. So yeah, it actually requires to skill to use, and it rewards you greatly Plus, that insane damage gives it room to put on utility mods like Firestorm or (Primed) fast hands, something we don't see for many other weapons in the game. Overall, I'd say it's a balanced gun (which is very surprising, given how unbalanced Warframe is). 

 

It's not like the Synoid Gammacor, which literally required not skill other than being able to point and drag in a given driection.

[Don_T_Shoot]

 

Actually +1 for Sid.  Tonkor is fine, move on.

[Grom-84]

(Oh no, someone is wrong on the internet, I must reply!)

 

No, sorry, you still don't understand speed vs time.   Fast Hands does not reduce reload time directly.  Never has.

 

It increases the speed. It says so right on the mod.  It has no direct affect on the time numbers themselves, it just speeds up the reload animation.  Which, will then have an affect on the reload time but not how you seem to think it should.

 

 

 

If you are traveling 30mph, it will take 2 hours to go 60 miles. 

 

If you equip a Rank 9 Primed Fast Hands on your car it will increase the speed by 50% and it will take 1 hour and 20 minutes to get there because you are now going 45mph.     Not 1 hour, but 1 hour and 20 minutes because the mod doesn't decrease the time by x% but increases the speed by x%.

 

rate = distance/time

 

Bottom line the mod works as it should, but you don't think it is fast enough.  That's fine but you cannot say that the mod is broken or doesn't work as advertised. 

OK. Look - Animation Lasts for 2 seconds, most of the time each second consists of 30 animation frames in videogames its a standart, 2secs of reloading = 60 frames of animation - speeding the animation by 50% will result in reducing reload in time from 2secs to 1. 

Edited June 23, 2015 by Grom-84

[SquidTheSid]

OK. Look - Animation Lasts for 2 seconds, most of the time each second consists of 30 animation frames in videogames its a standart, 2secs of reloading = 60 frames of animation - speeding the animation by 50% will result in reducing reload in time from 2secs to 1. 

 

I don't think animation works like that, no? Or at the very least, it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. 

 

Let's do some basic arithmetic given the formula for reload time 

 

Formula for calculating reload time: (Reload Time * 1)/(1+Reload Speed).

 

So take the Akmagnus with its reload time of 3.0 seconds. Throw on an R5 Quickdraw and you get +48% speed. 

 

3/(1+0.48) = 2.03 seconds. 

 

The calculations work fine, the mods aren't broken. They're incredibly convoluted, yes, but they work. I personally think they should be made into flat reload time decreases to put them more on par with damage mods, as well as making them easier to understand, but that's not the issue here. 

Edited June 24, 2015 by SquidTheSid

[Grom-84]

I don't think animation works like that, no? Or at the very least, it's not as simple as you're making it out to be. 

 

In fact it does, well normaly if no alien logic involved)  

[SquidTheSid]

In fact it does, well normaly if no alien logic involved)  

Got a source? 

[Autongnosis]

OK. Look - Animation Lasts for 2 seconds, most of the time each second consists of 30 animation frames in videogames its a standart, 2secs of reloading = 60 frames of animation - speeding the animation by 50% will result in reducing reload in time from 2secs to 1. 

Nope. Speeding animation by 100% will do it. Speeding it by 50% will mean 45 animations/sec or, if the reloadwas 60 animations, a 1.333s reload time.

 

In fact it does, well normaly if no alien logic involved)  

Actually sorry but it's you who got it backwards. The guy who did the speed vs time comparison has it right.

 

If you want to calculate effective reload time you use this formula:

 

*base reload time*/(1+(*bonus to reload speed*/100))

 

Which means that a gun with 2s reload with a rank 9 Primed Fast Hands will have a reload time of:

 

2/(1+(50/100)=

=2/(1+0.50)=

=2/1.5=

=1.333

Edited June 24, 2015 by Autongnosis

[Guest]

i miss superjump...

[AlienOvermind]

because people don't realize it's power.... or they just haven't modded it for crit xD

Or because Penta has more DPS and easier to use.

[Grom-84]

Got a source? 

Source for what? That 30 fps is a standart for video games animations? or techniques called frame skipping can increase the animation speed? You can google for it. In fact mesa's peacemaker introduces this method where she's just switches from pose to pose without having any filler frames between.

[SquidTheSid]

Or because Penta has more DPS and easier to use.

 

I highly doubt that. The Tonkor's crit stats are far superior to the Penta's. 

 

 

Source for what? That 30 fps is a standart for video games animations? or techniques called frame skipping can increase the animation speed? You can google for it. In fact mesa's peacemaker introduces this method where she's just switches from pose to pose without having any filler frames between.

 

So, you don't have a source, then? I think you don't know what you're talking about my friend. 

[Swailwort]

Or because Penta has more DPS and easier to use.

I highly doubt about the DPS... I am constantly dishing 20k damage in Tonkor...per enemy. I used the Penta. Hated it. Sold it.

Tonkor4ever.

[Don_T_Shoot]

OK. Look - Animation Lasts for 2 seconds, most of the time each second consists of 30 animation frames in videogames its a standart, 2secs of reloading = 60 frames of animation - speeding the animation by 50% will result in reducing reload in time from 2secs to 1. 

 

BZZZT No sorry wrong.   Speed does not work like that.  I already explained how speed works, refer to my correct post above and stop being wrong. It doesn't look good on you.

[Holeypaladin]

Tonkor is only really effective against large groups of condensed enemies.  It's useless against most bosses because they're infreakingvulnerable unless you hit their weak points, which the tonkor is nowhere near precise enough to do.

 

So it's fine.

[Grom-84]

So, you don't have a source, then? I think you don't know what you're talking about my friend. 

I dont care what you are thinking about. It's not my problem that you can't google things i've already mentioned. 

[(PSN)asianman20]

I game on the PS4. I enjoy it every much so with the Tonkor and to see bodies fly everywhere. Hands down the best powerful weapon that you can't get kill by it.

[Don_T_Shoot]

I dont care what you are thinking about. It's not my problem that you can't google things i've already mentioned. 

 

And it is not our problem that you don't understand basic math. Or that speed and time are different things.

 

But if you want to keep talking I'm sure people will be happy to mock you further.

[Autongnosis]

And it is not our problem that you don't understand basic math. Or that speed and time are different things.

But if you want to keep talking I'm sure people will be happy to mock you further.

That wasn't really needed though.

Let's put it this way: if you analise it from the animation's point of view you have one frame skipped every two frames projected. So each block of 3 frames is only actually 2 frames because the third one is skipped. If there are 60 frames in a full relad animation (assuming standard model, that's the number for Tonkor's 2 second reload), after Primed Fast Hands rank 9 the reload animation would be 40 frames long instead of 60, which means 1.333...s reload.

[seth]

Well if it didn't hit hard as it does, there would be no point in using it at all.

Tonkor projectiles are arc based and in start that is worst than regular non hitscan weapon where you must lead your target, enemies in warframe move irregular and there is bunch of them. It also has only 2 shots before that long 2sec reload time.

[Don_T_Shoot]

That wasn't really needed though.

Let's put it this way: if you analise it from the animation's point of view you have one frame skipped every two frames projected. So each block of 3 frames is only actually 2 frames because the third one is skipped. If there are 60 frames in a full relad animation (assuming standard model, that's the number for Tonkor's 2 second reload), after Primed Fast Hands rank 9 the reload animation would be 40 frames long instead of 60, which means 1.333...s reload.

 

Of course, you are correct, but 1.333  is not 1 second and 1/3 of a second is a small but significant difference in time in the context of the fast pace of combat in Warframe.   But for some baffling reason some keep arguing that 50% speed increase should half the time.

 

Normally people are just arguing opinions on forums but in this case they arguing against objective mathematical fact.  And that is just a silly exercise.