Pc 16.9.0: Excalibur Feedback Megathread

[Knightmare047]

I personally think the combos in Exalted Blade need to have abit more variety in the slash waves instead of being the same waves being sent out again and again. Especially since some Excal players tend to use it at a distance. Here is my suggestion : 

 

For example, have the Equal Laceration combo do slash waves with high velocity and range(around 60m or more) along with a ragdoll effect like how the last hit does when you hit an enemy with it(but the blade wave doesn't currently). This justifies the combo being slower than the rest along with the animations where Excal seems to 'charge' his slash. For Cutting Poise, make its last hit which has Excal turn around and slash create a very wide slash wave. And Virtuous Slash's last hit where he spins the Exalted Blade abit could release multiple waves instead of one. This should give the players more incentive to try out the other combos instead of just spamming.

Edited July 3, 2015 by Knightmare047

[BrazilianJoe]

I think it has problems, XC is too hard to kill and by killing fast enough, it has infinite energy. 

 

The waves do the trick, it is so easy to do a barrage of wave doom. 

 

One attempt of toning it down a bit: halfing the wave's damage on each enemy hit on their path. So a 1000 damage wave becomes 500 damage after 1 hit, 250 after the second hit, 125 after the third hit, and so on. 

 

Another experiment with a drastic change (which may totally suck): Changing the wave to a charged attack, so that the player can't endlessly spam them, but buff their speed and damage greatly. 

 

 

 

[Elkyx]

i want to customize the lenght of my lightsaber........

 

so 

 

-short has like a dagger moveset

 

-mid usual EB 

 

-LONGER heavy blade feel?

like the longer you hold 4 during the original casting the longer the blade? i could dig that, if his waves wouldn't still go through enemies until it dssipates.

[Gintoki-Zero]

like the longer you hold 4 during the original casting the longer the blade? i could dig that, if his waves wouldn't still go through enemies until it dssipates.

yeah, that could work, and the punch through of the blade waves should also reflect that as well

 

dagger - negligible

mid- well mid 3 meters?

long- a 5 meter range for the wave before it dissipates? 

[r0ckwolf]

Hi everyone, 

i guess mostly nobody will know me here :), but i´m the one who created the Thread about Excalibur, that in the end inspired the rework.

I took a long time to thouroughly playtest him and thought i share my results.

 

First of all look here for reference: 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/230673-excalibur-20-victory/

 

 

In generall i think the rework is just plain excellent, but as it is a massive change, there are suddenly new things to consider when looking at Excalibur, so these are my insights, i hope you find them constructive.

 

In comparison of what has been achieved with the rework, these might seem petty, but in the long run i think the following things should be changed:

 

• Exalted Blade is awesome and the functionality and efficency are definetly fine in my opinion, however the range of the Blade Waves is so high by default that it almost nullifies the need to go into melee range. I noticed a lot of Players using it as a plasma canon of sorts, standing far away from the enemy and shooting at them from a distance. I do think that this is kind of beside the point of the rework, which was to make Excalibur a melee focused frame that excells in close range. So i´d suggest reducing the range from the blade Waves to 10 - 15 meters. This would keep the the Ultimate completely intact in it´s function and simply prevent camping strategies. :) 

• I also noticed that the combos do very little in the sense of extra effects, so as a player you don´t feel encouraged to use them, since simply spamming lots of waves is more effective. Increasing the damage, adding a forced proc, maybe increasing the length of the waves or the size on certain attacks in consideration of the above mentioned change, would go along way to remedy this problem.

• Radial Javelin, while quiet powerfull as a third ability in generall, sadly feels like a weaker version of Radial Blind as soon as the damage falls off. The Stun gives you very little time to slip away and in generall it doesn´t really work well as a panic button as soon as you don´t kill your enemys with it. If the Ability would ragdoll enemys away from you it would work wonders! I think since Excals damage output has increased quiet a lot overall, it would even make sense to decrease the damage on Radial Javelin in favor for more utility.

greetings to everyone

 

r0ckwolf

[Gintoki-Zero]

 

• Radial Javelin, while quiet powerfull as a third ability in generall, sadly feels like a weaker version of Radial Blind as soon as the damage falls off. The Stun gives you very little time to slip away and in generall it doesn´t really work well as a panic button as soon as you don´t kill your enemys with it. If the Ability would ragdoll enemys away from you it would work wonders! I think since Excals damage output has increased quiet a lot overall, it would even make sense to decrease the damage on Radial Javelin in favor for more utility.

greetings to everyone

 

r0ckwolf

 

all my yes to this

[CombatPastor]

 

Hi everyone, 

i guess mostly nobody will know me here :), but i´m the one who created the Thread about Excalibur, that in the end inspired the rework.

I took a long time to thouroughly playtest him and thought i share my results.

 

First of all look here for reference: 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/230673-excalibur-20-victory/

 

 

In generall i think the rework is just plain excellent, but as it is a massive change, there are suddenly new things to consider when looking at Excalibur, so these are my insights, i hope you find them constructive.

 

In comparison of what has been achieved with the rework, these might seem petty, but in the long run i think the following things should be changed:

 

• Exalted Blade is awesome and the functionality and efficency are definetly fine in my opinion, however the range of the Blade Waves is so high by default that it almost nullifies the need to go into melee range. I noticed a lot of Players using it as a plasma canon of sorts, standing far away from the enemy and shooting at them from a distance. I do think that this is kind of beside the point of the rework, which was to make Excalibur a melee focused frame that excells in close range. So i´d suggest reducing the range from the blade Waves to 10 - 15 meters. This would keep the the Ultimate completely intact in it´s function and simply prevent camping strategies. :) 

• I also noticed that the combos do very little in the sense of extra effects, so as a player you don´t feel encouraged to use them, since simply spamming lots of waves is more effective. Increasing the damage, adding a forced proc, maybe increasing the length of the waves or the size on certain attacks in consideration of the above mentioned change, would go along way to remedy this problem.

• Radial Javelin, while quiet powerfull as a third ability in generall, sadly feels like a weaker version of Radial Blind as soon as the damage falls off. The Stun gives you very little time to slip away and in generall it doesn´t really work well as a panic button as soon as you don´t kill your enemys with it. If the Ability would ragdoll enemys away from you it would work wonders! I think since Excals damage output has increased quiet a lot overall, it would even make sense to decrease the damage on Radial Javelin in favor for more utility.

greetings to everyone

 

r0ckwolf

 

 

Okay. I can agree with this with one minor change - Set the wave range to a locked 20-25 meters. 25 meters is the default range for Radial Blind and Javelin, This also enables Excal to continue handling threats like the Nullifiers while still reducing the camp-ability of the frame.

[MEsoJD]

  I really don't understand, whose Idea it was to combine execute with the melee button after Radial Blind... S#&$ gets me killed and disrupts the flow of combat. Horrible design. Please tie it to the interact button.

[Dragazer]

  I really don't understand, whose Idea it was to combine execute with the melee button after Radial Blind... S#&$ gets me killed and disrupts the flow of combat. Horrible design. Please tie it to the interact button.

I agree moving finishers to the interact button will make dealing with crowds much easier.

[Gintoki-Zero]

  I really don't understand, whose Idea it was to combine execute with the melee button after Radial Blind... S#&$ gets me killed and disrupts the flow of combat. Horrible design. Please tie it to the interact button.

stealth finishers were always the e button.

[Hybridon]

My take on Excal :3

 

Edited July 3, 2015 by Hybridon

[Void_Vis_Vires]

Heres a post I made on the warframe feedback subforum that presents an idea for a rework for radial javelin 

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/484505-re-imagining-of-excaliburs-radial-javelin-with-pics/

[Sci_Ant]

My take on Excal :3

 

 

Very good review, hope DE sees this! :)

[MichaelSD]

Why do we need the sonic waves at all?

[Chroia]

Because sword beams are cool?

Edited July 6, 2015 by Chroia

[MichaelSD]

Uncool imho, but coolness is the least of my problems. 

Try to play a melee frame (none EB) with someone who uses EB continuously (because of the ridiculous power requirements). With ranged weapons you have to aim. EB just mows down everything in it's path, making any other melee use impossible.

Again, beside the coolness factor, the Excalibur works with EB great.

 

LIke the Mag changes, this is a completely solo oriented power now, but unlike Loki, it can hinder the team.

Edited July 8, 2015 by MichaelSD

[ImNotJellyAtAll]

Exalted Blade waves need a range reduction. There's no reason to take the risk of getting within melee range, when you can just spam energy waves from across the map.

[MichaelSD]

He may be more flashy and fun in low to mid tier missions, still useless in anything endgame related. While this is a improvement, it's still not as good as the Excalibur I fell in love with. The Excalibur who had radial blind with no LoS requirement and blinded enemies received the stealth attack modifier was still a better Excalibur. Valkyr is a better option if you want to go ham. While this is a improvement, it's still not as good as the Excalibur I fell in love with.

 

This. EB is just eye candy for solo play.

 

 

Exalted Blade waves need a range reduction. There's no reason to take the risk of getting within melee range, when you can just spam energy waves from across the map.

 

Drop waves altogether. Excalibur works fine as melee frame.

Edited July 11, 2015 by MichaelSD

[r0ckwolf]

Drop waves altogether....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xxSI1QsIo8g

Edited July 11, 2015 by r0ckwolf

[MichaelSD]

How about yes?

[shut]

Now that this thread has been revived, I think we should discuss the problems with EB's build variety. Namely, how certain melee weapons are straight-up better or worse than others.

_________________________________________________

LEAST VIABLE

- Glaive/Kestrel/Halikar builds that use Glaive-exclusive mods.

EB is COMPLETELY UNAFFECTED by these mods, meaning that the slots might as well be empty as soon as you hit 4. Using these weapons with these mods means gimping your 1 and your 4, which is not okay.

SOLUTION:

Let the Glaive-exclusive mods have effects on EB's waves.

- Whirlwind should give the waves improved flight speed.

- Power Throw should remove the punchthrough but cause large AoE explosions on impact with a surface or enemy. (The damage matching that of the original wave, just like with normal Glaive throws.)

- Quick Return should remove punchthrough but cause waves to boomerang back to Excal upon impact with a surface or enemy.

- Rebound should remove punchthrough but cause waves to bounce off surfaces ____ times before disappearing. (Power Throw activates on the last collision.)

Not perfect, but something of the sort. Just let these mods do SOMETHING.

NORMAL VIABILITY

- Non-sword melee weapons with usual builds (crit or not).

What I really like about EB's design is that both crit and non-crit builds are perfectly viable; crit builds substantially increase DPS at the cost of predictability. As it should be.

No changes needed.

SLIGHTLY-ABOVE-NORMAL VIABILITY

- Swords (longswords, dualswords, nikanas) with usual builds (crit or not).

Even now, Excal's advertised as a versatile all-rounder, so I don't think it's okay for some weapon builds to be straight-up better than others in terms of how his abilities are affected. That said, the difference here (+10% extra attack speed and base damage before mods) is small, so it's not that big an issue.

No significant changes needed.

VERY-ABOVE-NORMAL VIABILITY

- None.

GOD-TIER VIABILITY

- Daggers with the Covert Lethality mod. (Effects: +100% base damage before mods; all stealth multipliers are replaced with OHKOs. Affects EB.)

Note here that this isn't about whether Cover Lethality is "OP" or not (personally, I think it's fine). The instakills aren't a problem at all regarding EB, since all blinded enemies (Manics and such aside) tend to get oneshotted by EB waves anyways at high levels. Not much changes in this regard, with the exception that ground slams can instakill blind enemies as well.

The problem here is that this mod gives EB an enormous boost compared to other melee builds. An Exalted Blade built with a CL Dagger will literally have almost DOUBLE THE FINAL DAMAGE of any other Exalted Blade. Since Excal is still the frame that's all about versatility and variety, this is not okay.

SOLUTION:

Note-- I repeat, this has NOTHING to do with whether Covert Lethality meets someone's arbitrary definition of "overpowered". This is about Excal players being shoehorned into a specific weapon type that they may or may not enjoy in order for a Warframe Ability (read: Not the weapon. A WARFRAME ABILITY) to have maximum effectiveness.

The solution is simple. Remove the "2x final damage" component from Covert Lethality, and double all daggers' base damage to compensate. (Leave the OHKOs as they are.)

The result is that Daggers remain just as viable for general use as they are now, and CL Exalted Blades stay as a viable alternative to usual Exalted Blades without being a direct upgrade.

Edited August 5, 2015 by SortaRandom

[Oishii]

Well at the very least the frost rework in combination with an exalibur or mesa I can surf the web while grinding defense missions, its sort of terrible and nice at the same time.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Well at the very least the frost rework in combination with an exalibur or mesa I can surf the web while grinding defense missions, its sort of terrible and nice at the same time.

Excal isn't even close to being as bad about that as Mesa.

[(PSN)xX-GunHound-Xx]

This. EB is just eye candy for solo play.

 

 

 

Drop waves altogether. Excalibur works fine as melee frame.

1st question. Why take one of the most defining traits a warframe has, for a super, nontheless, and discard it? The waves add personality to Excalibur and a viability as the only warframe capable of long range melee attacks. Surely you have a reason other than " I don't like it ".