Dont Make Shotguns Snipers Again

[NoirTree]

Seriously they just need more damage... keep the falloff shotguns should be up close and persoanl.

Also to all of you saying shotguns suffer at mid to long ranges... I want to call you rude words !

Yes, they need more damage and spread, but no falloff.

[TheBrsrkr]

I have a question: why must shotguns be terrible at long ranges? Only 2 shotguns, the He and the Sobek, are capable of "sniping" and neither them would be ZOMG 2 OP PLZ NERF if they can kill 2 or 3 enemies in a straight line beyond 50 meters. We do that with literally every other weapon type all the time.

[Brynslustafir]

They don't need falloff. the shots spread apart as they travel. that's enough to make them a close range weapon. 

[ArbitUHM]

People who are against the removal of shotgun fall-off have such an opinion for two reasons only, Hek. We already have shotguns that do not suffer fall off,

 

Drakgood, Detron (Mara), Khom.

 

No one complains about shotguns that have spread, no one would care if the fall-off was removed from said shotguns. The only guns these nay-sayers are concerned about are the two outliers, multi-barreled rifles that do not act like a shotgun whatsoever. So all shotguns must suffer because of these unusual weapon designs that do not fit the shotgun role. Hek / Sobek have no spread and have multiple-barrels and in effect a build in multi-shot system. In the confines of the game it was easy for DE to just say, "It's a shotgun, count each round as an extra pellet, put it in the shotgun category, end of story.". But look at the poop-storm this has wrought whereby all actual shotguns have been rendered useless and while there is a strong conensus that the only problem is the fall-off feature, you constantly have people arguing against it's removal on the basis off "Don't turn shotties into sniping rifles".

 

 

CHANGE YOUR TITLE OP TO "Don't turn Hek and Sobek into sniping rifles", remove fall off damage and make the multi-barrel rifles, just like akjagara, a multi-barrel firing mechanic where it'll fire as many rounds as there are barrels. Hek and Sobek just don't belong in the shotgun category in the current grand scheme of things. They are more like the Sybaris if you ask me.

The Hek is more of a sniper with damage falloff than a shotgun. Small mag, lengthy reload, very accurate, and high recoil pretty much describes a sniper rifle. The only thing that makes it shotgun-like is its model (cosmetic), pellet spread (which is negligible), and damage falloff. IMHO it should compete with snipers if that's what it in essence is. If there's concern that it would be superior to snipers, than give it a little spread so it's only noticeable past 50 meters (it's current range due to falloff). 

 

The Sobek... it's pellet spread isn't tight enough to get long range headshots. It doesn't have the accuracy and spread to actually compete with current sniper rifles.

[Repligon]

This is a DE method. Hek and Brakk have both large damage and tight spread that make it easy to hit distant targets? Nerf all shotguns!

 

Tight spread shotguns are just made for medium distances. This is the reason why shotguns have spread and multiple projectiles - to make hitting distant targets easier. And of course it comes with a benifit of dealing greater damage at close distances.

 

DE need to rethink the way they see shotguns. They are lower damage and easier to hit rifles with some bonus damage at close range and should have damage scaled accordingly. Shotguns are not close range obliterators, melee is (and some exotic weapons like panthera and embolist).

[TaylorsContraction]

Brakk does not have a tight spread. Not even close to that of hek or sobek...

[Kainosh]

Shotties are...pretty good now.  Yes, with fall-off and spread.

 

I cant even understand why we need those changes.   You people really want 500% multishot rifle with 0.2 accuracy?

 

Not to mention that every pellet can proc....No matter how far targets are.

[[DE]Grzegorz]

Not to mention that every pellet can proc....No matter how far targets are.

Status on shotguns is fundamentally broken and should always be counted on per-pellet basis...

 

This way with a few mods, shotguns like Strun Wraith go from about 5% status per pellet to 100% status per pellet.

[Brainwright]

In real life, shotguns are close-range weapons due to their slow muzzle-velocity.  Spread makes that less of an issue.

 

Let's try making all shotguns like Drakgoon.  That'll work beautifully.

[4G3NT_0R4NG3]

The biggest problem with shotguns having damage falloff is that high level enemies have such insane damage output that you're basically required to keep your distance, because if you don't, you'll become the deadest thing since the dinosaurs. Some range increase is necessary to making shotguns endgame viable. Even if shotguns had no damage falloff, their pellet spread would keep them from being snipers.

 

Alternatively, we could solve the root problem of high level enemies having insane damage output by actually fixing endgame content. More here: https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/471601-endgame-20-analyzing-the-causes-of-warframes-lack-of-endgame-and-solving-the-problems-one-by-one/

[motorfirebox]

Use an unmodded shotgun or a bronco (so you see less pellet) and fire on a wall.

Well, that's... awful. That means there are three factors limiting the damage of shotguns. First, the spread pattern itself. Second, the accuracy rating of the weapon, which adds randomization to the spread pattern. Third, the damage falloff. No wonder shotguns suck. A proper spread pattern would be plenty.

[mishmashmarsh]

Seriously they just need more damage... keep the falloff shotguns should be up close and persoanl.

Also to all of you saying shotguns suffer at mid to long ranges... I want to call you rude words !

 

Shotguns have a spread that's what makes them less effective at range, the falloff damage is unnecessary.

[ArbitUHM]

This is a DE method. Hek and Brakk have both large damage and tight spread that make it easy to hit distant targets? Nerf all shotguns!

 

Tight spread shotguns are just made for medium distances. This is the reason why shotguns have spread and multiple projectiles - to make hitting distant targets easier. And of course it comes with a benifit of dealing greater damage at close distances.

 

DE need to rethink the way they see shotguns. They are lower damage and easier to hit rifles with some bonus damage at close range and should have damage scaled accordingly. Shotguns are not close range obliterators, melee is (and some exotic weapons like panthera and embolist).

Brakk has nothing to do with it. It had no falloff damage for quite a while, concurrent with Hek and other shotguns having falloff. Brakk was given falloff damage at a later date simply because it was so dominant that other shotgun-pistols (or whatever you want to call them) could not compete. I know for certain that my Akbronco Prime does not have falloff damage, and I'm pretty sure the Detron does not have it either.

[Hueminator]

Well, that's... awful. That means there are three factors limiting the damage of shotguns. First, the spread pattern itself. Second, the accuracy rating of the weapon, which adds randomization to the spread pattern. Third, the damage falloff. No wonder shotguns suck. A proper spread pattern would be plenty.

Imo the spread pattern you observe are just direct effect of accuracy.  I think if you use a low accuracy single shot weapon.  Shoot on the wall for like 10 shots and record its position.  When you superimposed bullets hole on each other you would likely to see a spread pattern.

Edited June 24, 2015 by Hueminator

[motorfirebox]

You would see something like a spread pattern, yes. The difference between that and a proper shotgun spread is that with RNG, you could pretty conceivably have all the pellets in a shot grouped over on one side, with only a few filling the rest of the spread. A more reasonable model would keep the spread the same every shot.

 

Reliably hitting a target at a set distance with a certain number of pellets is the whole point of shotguns. The further you go, the fewer pellets hit and the less damage you do to the target. DE is using damage falloff to mimic that. That's silly and frustrating.

[Hueminator]

You would see something like a spread pattern, yes. The difference between that and a proper shotgun spread is that with RNG, you could pretty conceivably have all the pellets in a shot grouped over on one side, with only a few filling the rest of the spread. A more reasonable model would keep the spread the same every shot.

 

Reliably hitting a target at a set distance with a certain number of pellets is the whole point of shotguns. The further you go, the fewer pellets hit and the less damage you do to the target. DE is using damage falloff to mimic that. That's silly and frustrating.

In warframe, multishot creates more pellets, hence the chance of "all the pellet to one side"  even much more rare. However, regardless of the model, the damage fall off is the main issue at hand.  It pretty much kill both the model.

[Holeypaladin]

I wouldn't mind if hek became a longer range shotgun again.  It's really the only shotgun with a tight enough cone to actually be useful at any sort of range, and it's got that tiny magazine and slow reload speed.

 

Even still, I think hek's fire rate should be doubled and reload speed halved, with the damage falloff removed.  Sure, this would make it a brutal mid-range shotgun... but it still wouldn't put hek's damage per shot into the same category as Dread, soma prime, or Tonkor, just make it a more viable option for combat.

Edited June 26, 2015 by Holeypaladin