Rhino: Charge, Roar & Stomp.

[RoboDoge]

Why not remove damage from his abilities and give him aggro generation instead, based on hits. Whenever he uses his powers, enemies in certain rage will target him.

 

 

He was designed to fill tank role in the beginning, yes?

[MJ12]

I kind of wish Iron Skin would scale somewhat so it'd be just as effective in high-level content as it is in low-level content.

 

Since Channels seem to be a neat thing, maybe make Iron Skin more like, say, the armor mode in Crysis.

 

Slow energy drain when active, but energy is drained whenever you take a hit. This shouldn't scale with enemy adjusted damage, but maybe it could scale to base enemy damage. Allows a Rhino to charge out into the open to rescue a teammate or take fire, but means that they're not invincible.

 

I'd also suggest that maybe Rhino get a health buff to put him back into the Big Tough Guy realm. With enemy accuracy much higher, and damage avoidance dependent on speed, even giving Rhino 200/200 shields/health wouldn't seem like a problem and 150/150 shields/health would be helpful.

[angrykenji]

can iron skin at least change the way it looks somehow? right now it just looks like gold tinfoil covering up all my colour schemes, etc.

that ability should also have some better scaling than it is now

Edited June 22, 2015 by angrykenji

[Thalahssalyst]

About Iron Skin:
Its possible to make the color of the metal, based on your energy color?
I will like to see a Complete Black Iron Skin for normal Rhino.

[SquidTheSid]

Um?

 

Iron Skin's probably one of the abilities that needs a change the most. Much like direct-damage abilities, after a certain level it becomes a bigger waste of time to cast the ability because enemies can unpeel it just as quickly. It could seriously use something to increase its longevity as content level increases, much like Snow Globe received.

 

Two ideas thrown about that seem the most practical for a rework of Iron Skin are:

 

1). Give it the snowglobe treatment. Temporary invulnerability for a short time, at which enemy fire gives it base HP. Iron Skin scales off of 300% of Rhino's current armor value or something (giving his augment for Rhino charge some actual use).

 

2). Iron Skin scales off of hits and not damage. For example, it absorbs a static 20/40/60/80 hits from any source, regardless of damage output. So a level 90 Heavy  Gunner will whittle down Iron Skin at the same rate as a level 9 Heavy Gunner. 

 

Also, make it immune to ALL CC. So, he shouldn't be slowed by Tar MOAs, have his vision obstructed by the swarm, etc. The same should apply for Oberon. Also, let Rhino recast Iron Skin without the augment mod. 

[Noble_Cactus]

New Charge sounds fun. My only concern is that it will still suffer from the same problem as the old Slash Dash: Charge will feel stiff and restrictive. Lately, I've been wondering how Charge would fit into Warframe's gameplay if it were retuned into something more like the Tyrant's Charge from Nosgoth:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wbOhilvCNY

 

Both of these abilities disrupt enemy lines and initiate pushes for their teams (pvp and pve game differences aside). The Tyrant's charge feels fluid and requires some careful planning beforehand; it has a bit of a windup, and then you're able to turn slightly during it as you bowl enemies over in your wake. Moreover, it feels heavy to use, and hitting enemies feels very impactful. Maybe Rhino's Charge could create a small explosion at the end of his charge for aesthetic effect while it ragdolls all enemies in range?

 

Other than that, these changes are a good start for future Rhino reworks. I do hope that Roar, Iron Skin, and Stomp will be fleshed out at some point though. Roar's flat damage buff feels rather bland, and this new Stomp is basically a Bastille that can't be recast.

 

Iron Skin is a whole 'nother can of worms that I won't touch right now, except for that I wish the visual didn't make Rhino look like a ball of metal foil. It's a bit disappointing when you customize your Rhino with the knowledge that neither you nor your teammates will ever see your pretty colors because a bunch of gold crud is going to cover it up.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[bejuizb]

I'm happy that one of my mains is finally getting some attention, but I'd like Iron Skin to be looked at as well, since it is quite literally his signature move and the only ability that lends to his tank nature. The three buffs mentioned here, while helpful no doubt, only make his purpose as a CC machine more evident, and if this is the path DE intended for Rhino, mayhaps a retooling of his role in game would be for the best, since high CC =/= high defense. 

 

If he's still intended to be a tank, I'd suggest adding damage reduction instead of bonus numbers on top of his health and shields. The damage reduction would be based on his present armour, similar to Snowglobe. This would increase Rhino's falloff point to a much better state, in my opinion anyways.

[Tykune]

Maybe give the tank frame a buff in armor then it'll be perfect. 

Yes please

[Chroia]

1: Cool.

2: Shame. There are many things it could do.

% Damage reduction, pre-cast reactive invulnerability, enforced cap on incoming damage, just off the top of my head.

3: Cool.

Seems a rather excessive buff when you could've just increased all ranks to the max's 15 sec, but I probably shouldn't complain.

4: Oh my, reason to build for duration (and not Strength) on a Rhino, who'd've thought? I approve.

 

Awaiting further modifications.

 

 

Late edit:

And, as always, thanks for the information.

[size=2]And thank Haldos for reminding me of my manners  ._.[/size]

Edited June 23, 2015 by Chroia

[Flackenstien]

Really solid changes.

Rhino will be much more user-friendly, with more variation in builds.

 

I see you guys still don't know what to do about Iron Skin.

It's OP as OP gets in low level content, near useless in high level content.

 

My suggestion for Iron Skin, is to weaken it overall, but let it scale with enemy Level (or some other attribute, like Armor), allowing it to work smoothly in all levels of content.

EDIT: Oh yeah, making it work like Snow Globe could work too.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Flackenstien

[FierceRadiance]

Respectfully:

I applaud the changes described, but I'm concerned that we might see them nerfed back (at least somewhat) in a month or two, in response to little more than forum complaints.  I hear folk bad-mouthing Rhino sometimes, saying he's the noob-crutch, that anybody can do well in a Rhino 'frame.  I happen to like (and use) Rhino quite a bit, but it's because he's the most survivable frame (I'm currently modded to 1200+/800+); I do my killing with my weapons, and generally ignore Rhino's abilities.  I've been the last member of my team alive and been able to begin the 'resurrection chain' a number of times, so I know his value as a survivor, and that's what I like about him. 

[Archwizard]

1). Give it the snowglobe treatment. Temporary invulnerability for a short time, at which enemy fire gives it base HP. Iron Skin scales off of 300% of Rhino's current armor value or something (giving his augment for Rhino charge some actual use).

 

2). Iron Skin scales off of hits and not damage. For example, it absorbs a static 20/40/60/80 hits from any source, regardless of damage output. So a level 90 Heavy  Gunner will whittle down Iron Skin at the same rate as a level 9 Heavy Gunner. 

 

3). Give it the Nullifier treatment: The skin absorbs a maximum amount of damage every second, and any excess is blocked. That way the Skin always lasts a minimum duration, without recycling the Snow Globe formula. Bonus points if the damage threshold is affected by armor.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Archwizard

[SicSlaver]

In the Radial-blinding light of a widely discussed and promoted Excalibur Rework, a lot of attention has immediately moved forward to Frost and our hopes about what his rework will bring. However - in the immediate future - there are some changes coming to Rhino based on a lot of conversations about where he fits into things overall. We had some time to address what we could earlier today with Rhino - some relatively small items that still create a more formidable Rhino as a whole.

 

As always - everything is subject to change. The following ability tweaks are based on our combined experiences with Rhino, and if there's anything you'd like to bring up in relation to the following, this thread is the spot for it!

 

Firstly, Rhino Charge:

 

We are working to added forced ragdolling to every enemy in Rhino's way when he casts Rhino Charge. We're looking to do-away with the scenario where Rhino Charges into a group of high-level enemies and stops dead in his tracks because his charge wasn't lethal; we're going to be making non-lethal hits send the enemies flying instead!

 

Secondly, Iron Skin will be unchanged.  

Thirdly, Roar:

 

The most immediate problem with Roar is obvious if you're freshly ranking Rhino: a 'Rank 1' Roar only lasts for 7 seconds, and takes about a full second or more to cast. The change we're making here is that Rhino's Roar will have a duration of 30 seconds regardless of your Frame Rank. For reference, currently a max-Rank, unmodded Roar lasts for 15 seconds. Note that, as before, the Duration can be enhanced through mods -- with the right mods a max-duration roar will last almost a minute and a half!

 

Lastly, Rhino Stomp:

 

As it stands, the Stasis portion of Rhino's Stomp has an 8 second flat-rate that is not affected by Duration mods. However, we are going to apply the benefits of Duration modding to this part of the ability. This means you can now mod for a longer or shorter Duration (depending on the mods used).

 

We're aiming to have this in your hands for feedback this week on PC!

Holy S#&$, this sounds OP. I can't believe you're going to rework Rhino before you even consider Ember!

[dashashou]

These changes are just basically a  nerf for rhino , every uses rhino for his ability to run / tank 

 

atm everyone uses pretty much the same build - redirection , vit, fleeting , trans fort, 

                                                                              intensity ,  rush , flow /prime flow , stretch 

 

 

Rhino players kill our duration for our to buff our  iron skin , and tacking duration on to Rhino  Stomp  just means that  it will be a 1 second stun skill  

 

Iron skin is > stomp > charge > roar 

[BaIthazar]

 

I came here to eat ice cream, and read Iron Skin Hate..
And I never had ice cream to begin with

[Flackenstien]

Holy S#&$, this sounds OP. I can't believe you're going to rework Rhino before you even consider Ember!

Rhino isn't some perfect god frame. In medium-low level content he wrecks face, but in high level he becomes outplayed by more specialized frames.  

Also, his abilities had awkward issues that were nearly all addressed with these changes, making him much more comfortable to use.  

 

Ember is in their eyes, it's just that she will take ALOT more work than Rhino and Frost.

[SicSlaver]

These changes are just basically a  nerf for rhino , every uses rhino for his ability to run / tank 

 

atm everyone uses pretty much the same build - redirection , vit, fleeting , trans fort, 

                                                                              intensity ,  rush , flow /prime flow , stretch 

 

 

Rhino players kill our duration for our to buff our  iron skin , and tacking duration on to Rhino  Stomp  just means that  it will be a 1 second stun skill  

 

Iron skin is > stomp > charge > roar 

Are you kidding me? No way is having Stomp scale to duration a nerf. You'll just have to change your build. Roar getting a more duration is not a nerf. It is an extremely good buff. Iron Skin is not reliable in higher end missions. Charge being able to ragdoll and send enemies flying away is not a nerf either.

[SicSlaver]

I also hope they'll consider renaming his skills for more consistency. "Rhino Charge!" "Rhino Skin!" "Rhino Roar!" "Rhino Stomp!"

[Eldnacpeek]

Interesting. Though, what about Excalibur's Armor value exceeding Rhino's? Will this be addressed as well or unchanged?

[VanguardT-EN-]

Looks very good, i'll be looking forward to it.

[RahuHordika]

The changes seems pretty nice for something immediate.

Still I do hope Iron Skin gets reviewed soon enough, it is easily the one power Rhino has that inversely scales with level in a seriously bad way.

[Flackenstien]

Interesting. Though, what about Excalibur's Armor value exceeding Rhino's? Will this be addressed as well or unchanged?

Rhino has higher Shields and Iron Skin.  

If anything, they could give him and Frost a bit more HP, but then Saryn would need some stat changes so she's not left behind (she's due for a complete overhaul anyhow).

[Noble_Cactus]

Respectfully:

I applaud the changes described, but I'm concerned that we might see them nerfed back (at least somewhat) in a month or two, in response to little more than forum complaints.  I hear folk bad-mouthing Rhino sometimes, saying he's the noob-crutch, that anybody can do well in a Rhino 'frame.  I happen to like (and use) Rhino quite a bit, but it's because he's the most survivable frame (I'm currently modded to 1200+/800+); I do my killing with my weapons, and generally ignore Rhino's abilities.  I've been the last member of my team alive and been able to begin the 'resurrection chain' a number of times, so I know his value as a survivor, and that's what I like about him. 

 

Have you given Valkyr or Chroma a shot? They are far, far bulkier than Rhino. Heck, the new Excal has more survivability thanks to his higher armor value (225 as opposed to Rhino's 190) and his auto-parry in Exalted Blade. Rhino has more shields, but health tends to be more useful at higher levels due to Slash/Bleed procs. Plus, health + armor lets you run Rage builds.

 

I feel Rhino's armor and base health should get a bit of a buff with these upcoming minor changes for this reason. To which values, I'm not sure.

Edited June 22, 2015 by Noble_Cactus

[Yaerion]

*erases his post, discouraged by the fact to have to post such a thing*

Rhino? Hm...

I've nothing to say regarding these changes. They seem ok, of course.

I'm just disappointed he gets attention when he is one of those who need it the less at this moment imo.

I'm not saying he is perfect, or that he won't benefit from changes in the future... But he has no manifest problem.

He has self-protection which block everything (damage, proc and knockdown), without duration, he can crowd-control, buff damage output, escape from danger quickly, normal sprint speed (and even faster with the lucky Arcane owners), high shields, "high" armor (will be buffed in the future, but sufficient until now). Well, I think it's the only frame we can consider as "having everything".

 

Honestly, if someone asked me "what would you change in Rhino?", i would've answered:

1) His 2d power: Make it a huge damage sponge ability: the more the enemies hit him, the less Rhino cares (at 100%, can achieve 0 damage per bullet/melee hit). The power Strength influences the initial damage reduction. When activated, Rhino becomes immune to knock-down and procs, but is significantly slowed down! (similar to the Ice grounds in Orokin Tours) (sprint speed, movements and holstering affected, not fire rate). Put a max timer on it. Can be deactivated before its end. (End of ability knockback the enemies in a radius proportional to the % of protection reached.)

2) Make the Roar divert the attention of every enemy in range. Enemies will instantly stop attacking their target and target Rhino instead as if he was a greater threat. THAT is the role of a tank. Combines pretty well with his new second power, and allows him to relieve the weaker allies around.

3) buff armor for the 2 editions to get in line with other recent armor buffs.

 

 

Have a good day, thanks for sharing with us anyway and the hard efforts! :)

[Cyberspace100]

Rhino is fine, he done need a buff, he dones need anything...

 

Ember

Hydriod

Volt (Now that Excal is so good)

Nekros

Limbo

 

What about all these frames that are are in need of a buff, why are you ingoring them..

 

Rhino Roar for 1 minute and a half is extremely OP, the 50% damage buff is already ridiculous in conjunction with FULL INVINCIBILITY. 

 

This is a bad decision and will only serve to widen the gap between good frames and bad ones.