Jump to content
[DE]Rebecca

Rhino: Charge, Roar & Stomp.

Recommended Posts

*erases his post, discouraged by the fact to have to post such a thing*

Rhino? Hm...

I've nothing to say regarding these changes. They seem ok, of course.

I'm just disappointed he gets attention when he is one of those who need it the less at this moment imo.

I'm not saying he is perfect, or that he won't benefit from changes in the future... But he has no manifest problem.

He has self-protection which block everything (damage, proc and knockdown), without duration, he can crowd-control, buff damage output, escape from danger quickly, normal sprint speed (and even faster with the lucky Arcane owners), high shields, "high" armor (will be buffed in the future, but sufficient until now). Well, I think it's the only frame we can consider as "having everything".

 

Honestly, if someone asked me "what would you change in Rhino?", i would've answered:

1) His 2d power: Make it a huge damage sponge ability: the more the enemies hit him, the less Rhino cares (at max, can achieve 0 damage per bullet/melee hit). Power Strength influence the initial damage reduction. When activated, Rhino becomes immune to knock-down and procs, but is significantly slowed down! (similar to the Ice grounds in Orokin Tours) (sprint speed and holstering affected, not fire rate). Put a max timer on it.

2) Make the Roar divert the attention of every enemy in range. Enemies will instantly stop attacking their target and target Rhino instead as if he was a greater threat. THAT is the role of a tank. Combines pretty well with his new second power, and allows him to relieve the weaker allies around.

3) buff armor for the 2 editions to get in line with other recent armor buffs.

 

 

Have a good day, thanks for sharing with us anyway and the hard efforts! :)

 

Slowdown on casting Iron Skin sounds like a big no-no simply because it doesn't sound fun at all. Given Charge, Rhino seems to slot into the mobile tank/Bruiser archetype. Frost is the more traditional stationary tank.

 

Roar drawing aggro would be a nice feature, though, since no other frame fills that niche.

 

Rhino is fine, he done need a buff, he dones need anything...

 

Ember

Hydriod

Volt (Now that Excal is so good)

Nekros

Limbo

 

What about all these frames that are are in need of a buff, why are you ingoring them..

 

Rhino Roar for 1 minute and a half is extremely OP, the 50% damage buff is already ridiculous in conjunction with FULL INVINCIBILITY

 

This is a bad decision and will only serve to widen the gap between good frames and bad ones. 

 

Since when is Rhino fully invincible?

Edited by Noble_Cactus
  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Interesting. Though, what about Excalibur's Armor value exceeding Rhino's? Will this be addressed as well or unchanged?

It's because Rhino chose to expose his midriff. If only he wasn't so fabulous and wanted to show off his abs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hmm. i like the changes. Things i would add:

 

- Something that would make him truly the heaviest of frames. the most obvious one: armor. Less obvious one: less base shields, more base health. maybe a bit of both.

 

- Make Iron Skin recastable without the aug. also have him benefit from armor a la frost.

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Radial-blinding light of a widely discussed and promoted Excalibur Rework, a lot of attention has immediately moved forward to Frost and our hopes about what his rework will bring. However - in the immediate future - there are some changes coming to Rhino based on a lot of conversations about where he fits into things overall. We had some time to address what we could earlier today with Rhino - some relatively small items that still create a more formidable Rhino as a whole.

 

As always - everything is subject to change. The following ability tweaks are based on our combined experiences with Rhino, and if there's anything you'd like to bring up in relation to the following, this thread is the spot for it!

 

Firstly, Rhino Charge:

 

We are working to added forced ragdolling to every enemy in Rhino's way when he casts Rhino Charge. We're looking to do-away with the scenario where Rhino Charges into a group of high-level enemies and stops dead in his tracks because his charge wasn't lethal; we're going to be making non-lethal hits send the enemies flying instead!

 

Secondly, Iron Skin will be unchanged.  

Thirdly, Roar:

 

The most immediate problem with Roar is obvious if you're freshly ranking Rhino: a 'Rank 1' Roar only lasts for 7 seconds, and takes about a full second or more to cast. The change we're making here is that Rhino's Roar will have a duration of 30 seconds regardless of your Frame Rank. For reference, currently a max-Rank, unmodded Roar lasts for 15 seconds. Note that, as before, the Duration can be enhanced through mods -- with the right mods a max-duration roar will last almost a minute and a half!

 

Lastly, Rhino Stomp:

 

As it stands, the Stasis portion of Rhino's Stomp has an 8 second flat-rate that is not affected by Duration mods. However, we are going to apply the benefits of Duration modding to this part of the ability. This means you can now mod for a longer or shorter Duration (depending on the mods used).

 

We're aiming to have this in your hands for feedback this week on PC!

Overall, these changes sound quite nice!

 

Some thoughts:

 

Rhino Charge - Well, I dunno what else to say here. Sounds like it's gonna be a lot of fun!

 

Iron Skin - Hmm, you know, if its health was lowered, but also benefitted from Rhino's armor, it'd have better synergy with his higher armor AND with the Ironclad Charge too. Just a thought. Recastability (as in casting again = removing it) would also be neat.

For scaling tankability, he could always have a few seconds of high damage resistance upon fresh casts (this resistance's duration scaling with power duration). That way, you can lower the skin health even a bit further, meaning it won't be so OP on lower levels AND it would scale well into higher content (due to fresh cast high resistance)

EDIT: Or  what Archwizard said:

 

3). Give it the Nullifier treatment: The skin absorbs a maximum amount of damage every second, and any excess is blocked. That way the Skin always lasts a minimum duration, without recycling the Snow Globe formula. Bonus points if the damage threshold is affected by armor.

 

That sounds like a great alternative too!

 

Roar - Sounds nice. But one additional thing: Consider Piercing Roar. Thus, recastability please (and a duration-buff to Piercing Roar? Maybe it could scare enemies upon cast too, just very briefly?)

 

Rhino Stomp - This change, while it sounds neat in general, could end up very broken. Due to it not being recastable, I guess it balances itself a bit though. Maybe make it recastable, but with a 6 second cooldown, as well as changing its base stasis duration to 6 seconds?

Edited by Azamagon

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to see a recastable Iron Skin one day. Without having to jump off map or use the augment to do so.

 

Otherwise, these skill changes look like a step in the right direction. Looking forward to playing around with them.

Edited by DietEbolaCola

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Since when is Rhino fully invincible?

 

Correct me if im wrong but, 

Rhino hardens his skin to create a reinforcing buffer with 400 / 600 / 800 / 1200 Ferrite Armor-based hitpoints. While the buffer is active, Rhino becomes immune to damage and Status Effects. Maximized Power Strength increases Ferrite armor hitpoints to 3,408.

Edited by Cyberspace100

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally id like it if Iron skin were after shields, cause shields to be effected by armor, take effect before HP, and had twice your armor

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Wow, Rhino just got a lot more viable for late game! Having his stomp affected by duration, on top of the Roar buff makes his iron skin problems pretty negligible. 

 

Side note, I'd like to know if Rhino is getting an armor buff? I heard Excal's is now higher than Rhino's and Frost's, which is kind of odd considering the other two are suppose to be tanks.

Edited by (PS4)blackbeltdude7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you given Valkyr or Chroma a shot? They are far, far bulkier than Rhino. Heck, the new Excal has more survivability thanks to his higher armor value (225 as opposed to Rhino's 190) and his auto-parry in Exalted Blade. Rhino has more shields, but health tends to be more useful at higher levels due to Slash/Bleed procs. Plus, health + armor lets you run Rage builds.

 

I feel Rhino's armor and base health should get a bit of a buff with these upcoming minor changes for this reason. To which values, I'm not sure.

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll give them a try.  Or I'll give Chroma a try.  I own a Valkyr, but I never hear about players wearing her unless they're trying to use her in some min/max way, and that's not my playstyle.  SO if I use her, I always have this sneaking suspicion that somewhere, somebody's saying, 'Dood, why aren't you doing thus-n-so?  Everybody knows that's how you play her!!'  So rather than have to worry about the expectations if I take her into battle, I just leave her in the garage.  Chroma, on the other hand, I'll see what I can do with.  So again, thanks!

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think stomp's stasis should work based on duration. Especially since iron skin isn't getting looked at.

 

Most Rhino's build max power STR and efficiency to make iron skin as useful into late content as they can. This nukes duration because of fleeting expertise.

 

Low duration makes roar, rhino charge, and with the proposed changes, stomp useless as well.

 

With the proposed changes, if you were to run a roar duration build, and accidentally caught a tanky enemy in your stasis, you could be rendered unable to use your stomp for an extended period of time. Rhino charge would send you careening across maps, and iron skin would have low HP, rendering it more useless than it is now.

 

Just my two cents from someone who's got like 2k steam hours and 50 percent of my game time was spent using rhino in every and any way imaginable.

  • Upvote 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Sounds nice.

 

What about Frost?

 

What are your ideas?

i think they already said what they are going to do with frost, they said so in the latest devstream 

 

but to summrise

 

1 freeze will make s small slow "puddle" which will slow any meneys that hits it ( something else but not sure)

2 his second ablity will be a cone instead of a line ( affected by mods)

3 snow globe will have no timer and a max of four snow globes at a time

4 avalange will proc a aoe that will slow ( or frezze) targets, kinda like novas molecualr prime

 

this is just what i remeber, im sure i missed a few things

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm greatly looking forward to the Frost rework and the Rhino ability tweaks look interesting. Personally, I thought Ember would be next on the table for a rework/tweaks but still interested in seeing how it will go.

 

Thanks DE!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Two ideas thrown about that seem the most practical for a rework of Iron Skin are:

 

1). Give it the snowglobe treatment. Temporary invulnerability for a short time, at which enemy fire gives it base HP. Iron Skin scales off of 300% of Rhino's current armor value or something (giving his augment for Rhino charge some actual use).

 

2). Iron Skin scales off of hits and not damage. For example, it absorbs a static 20/40/60/80 hits from any source, regardless of damage output. So a level 90 Heavy  Gunner will whittle down Iron Skin at the same rate as a level 9 Heavy Gunner. 

 

Also, make it immune to ALL CC. So, he shouldn't be slowed by Tar MOAs, have his vision obstructed by the swarm, etc. The same should apply for Oberon. Also, let Rhino recast Iron Skin without the augment mod. 

 

This a million times this!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Radial-blinding light of a widely discussed and promoted Excalibur Rework, a lot of attention has immediately moved forward to Frost and our hopes about what his rework will bring. However - in the immediate future - there are some changes coming to Rhino based on a lot of conversations about where he fits into things overall. We had some time to address what we could earlier today with Rhino - some relatively small items that still create a more formidable Rhino as a whole.

 

As always - everything is subject to change. The following ability tweaks are based on our combined experiences with Rhino, and if there's anything you'd like to bring up in relation to the following, this thread is the spot for it!

 

Firstly, Rhino Charge:

 

We are working to added forced ragdolling to every enemy in Rhino's way when he casts Rhino Charge. We're looking to do-away with the scenario where Rhino Charges into a group of high-level enemies and stops dead in his tracks because his charge wasn't lethal; we're going to be making non-lethal hits send the enemies flying instead!

 

Secondly, Iron Skin will be unchanged.  

Thirdly, Roar:

 

The most immediate problem with Roar is obvious if you're freshly ranking Rhino: a 'Rank 1' Roar only lasts for 7 seconds, and takes about a full second or more to cast. The change we're making here is that Rhino's Roar will have a duration of 30 seconds regardless of your Frame Rank. For reference, currently a max-Rank, unmodded Roar lasts for 15 seconds. Note that, as before, the Duration can be enhanced through mods -- with the right mods a max-duration roar will last almost a minute and a half!

 

Lastly, Rhino Stomp:

 

As it stands, the Stasis portion of Rhino's Stomp has an 8 second flat-rate that is not affected by Duration mods. However, we are going to apply the benefits of Duration modding to this part of the ability. This means you can now mod for a longer or shorter Duration (depending on the mods used).

 

We're aiming to have this in your hands for feedback this week on PC!

DE can you please make IRON SKIN scale with enemy level , like for example lets say a level 10 rhino just got iron skin for the first time and this person is fighting level 10 enemys then it should have at least 1000 ferrite armor but if this same person fought level 70 enemys his iron skin will be gone in 1 second making IRON SKIN completely useless . I think haveing iron skin gain more ferrite armor the harder the enemy is, is a MUST HAVE for rhino

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rhino is fine, he done need a buff, he dones need anything...

 

Ember

Hydriod

Volt (Now that Excal is so good)

Nekros

Limbo

 

What about all these frames that are are in need of a buff, why are you ingoring them..

 

Rhino Roar for 1 minute and a half is extremely OP, the 50% damage buff is already ridiculous in conjunction with FULL INVINCIBILITY

 

This is a bad decision and will only serve to widen the gap between good frames and bad ones. 

 

Yes there are other frames that need a buff, but I assume DE is doing the ones that take the shortest time to rework and the ones that are more popular or important first before getting to the niche frames.

 

If you think rhino is invincible then you are clearly a very very low level or a terrible player who can not access any of the more difficult content, Iron Skin scales very terribly with increased enemy damage and is essentially instantly peeled off at higher* levels.

 

edit: meant higher not lower

Edited by ShadowDragon000

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

glad they didnt change iron skin, or at least just yet.  There doesnt seem to be any good way to fix iron skin without it just turning into a crutch for new players again. this is one of the reasons they most likely changed iron skin in the first place.  it made new players bad at the game when they decided to use a different frame or stand still and get shot in the face.  it just created bad habits.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lastly, Rhino Stomp:

 

As it stands, the Stasis portion of Rhino's Stomp has an 8 second flat-rate that is not affected by Duration mods. However, we are going to apply the benefits of Duration modding to this part of the ability. This means you can now mod for a longer or shorter Duration (depending on the mods used).

 

Oh God nooo... please don´t do this!!!!

The Rhino Stomp Stasis effect is the single most Overpowered effect in the Game! It makes all challenge redundant. Admited the introduction of dimnishing returns has at least given bosses a chance to somehow protect themselfs against it, but i can already see Stomp spamming on every defense map and myself standing at the pod running danger being tagged as afk, because everything is continously suspended in air.

 

You Guys made such a good progress in making Abiltiy abuse less of an issue in the game, with taking away perma invulnerability from Trinity and the introduction of LoS on other Abiltiys.

I know there is a constant uproar in the Forums about this and i´ll probably get flamed for this post as hell, but in the long run i stand by my opinion that recasting the same Ability over and over is NOT FUN!! Especcially if said Ability either kills everything in sight or completely stunlocks every enemy for half a minute.

 

Surely you have better ideas for a Stomp rework then this DE.... please...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@DERebecca

 

About Rhino stomp

 

 

Would it be possible to make it castable in the air? If so Rhino would just plummet to the ground like the meteor ! I think it could be useful in the more vertical maps+ With parkour 2.0 getting to a high spot and slamming into the ground could be a lot of fun :)

 

this..

 

 this is nice.. got a nice skit going on in my head.. jumps off wall, glorious comet to the ground with an epic stomp landing.. yes yes. looks good on him. feels hulkish

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Correct me if im wrong but, 

Rhino hardens his skin to create a reinforcing buffer with 400 / 600 / 800 / 1200 Ferrite Armor-based hitpoints. While the buffer is active, Rhino becomes immune to damage and Status Effects. Maximized Power Strength increases Ferrite armor hitpoints to 3,408.

 

That's not invulnerability tbB9Djh.png

 

In fact, once you hit around Lv50-60 enemies, Iron Skin melts like wet paper. That's the big problem with Iron Skin: it's way too good at low levels, and not good at all at high levels except for preventing knockdowns.

 

Thanks for the suggestions, I'll give them a try.  Or I'll give Chroma a try.  I own a Valkyr, but I never hear about players wearing her unless they're trying to use her in some min/max way, and that's not my playstyle.  SO if I use her, I always have this sneaking suspicion that somewhere, somebody's saying, 'Dood, why aren't you doing thus-n-so?  Everybody knows that's how you play her!!'  So rather than have to worry about the expectations if I take her into battle, I just leave her in the garage.  Chroma, on the other hand, I'll see what I can do with.  So again, thanks!

 

No problem! By running Ice as his element, Chroma can get absolutely insane levels of armor. Electric element gives him some pretty high armor and a stun effect on his aura. Fire element gives him health restore for himself and his teammates. Toxin is... not that useful. You can block incoming fire with your melee for a long time because it buffs your stamina, I guess?

 

If you don't mind wading through lots of math, this thread is very informative:

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/431756-sci-ants-comprehensive-chroma-armor-build-guide-in-depth-with-calculations-and-results/

 

You can also skip to the end of the OP and look at his results.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'd honestly prefer it of iron skin got the same treatment as Snow Globe.

A lot of what is wrong with Rhino comes down to Iron Skin.

At low levels it makes him unstoppable. But later on it barely lasts any time at all.

Lowering it's base HP, and then letting it scale off of his armour as well as damage taken in the first 5 seconds (as Snow Globe does) would cut down on some of Rhinos opressive early on power, while letting him scale much better into the late game

The other changes are nice, especially Roar, but Iron Skin is really the big red x in his kit for me.

  • Upvote 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Slowdown on casting Iron Skin sounds like a big no-no simply because it doesn't sound fun at all. Given Charge, Rhino seems to slot into the mobile tank/Bruiser archetype. Frost is the more traditional stationary tank.

 

Roar drawing aggro would be a nice feature, though, since no other frame fills that niche.

I think it would be fair to slow down Rhino, since he is the fattest frame, and still one of the fastest, plus there are too many advantages in Iron Skin. He's increasing his density, his weight should increase too, and it would justify the immunity to knockdowns.

I'm tired of seeing a frame so huge with such a heavy protection running faster than 80% of the other frames.

If the slow-down for the ability is not tolerable, I would like to see both of the editions of the frame receiving a global speed reduction to be more in line with his stature.

To me, it's Valkyr and Excalibur who are closer to the "mobile tank" archetypes. They should clearly outclass Rhino in Sprint Speed/agility (jumps, movements (make longer/kicker rolls/dodges, etc).

 

But again, this is just an opinion, and I do not pretend to be right. I respect your feeling about Rhino. Having a warframe powerful in everything is cool, I won't deny that. ^^

I was just trying to address my feeling of unfairness about him when compared to other frames, and the reputation of this frame to be a noob frame because of all the advantages of Iron Skin. I think it comes from the fact that this ability is too easy to use with too many benefits. The lack of counterparty of using it is the source of many lazy behaviors with Rhino (which is a shame, givin all the possibilities given by the 4 powers). I'm referencing to dudes performing: Spawns in mission, Casts Iron Skin, rushs through everything without brain, sometimes uses Stomp, end of mission/leaves before first rot C.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...