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[DE]Rebecca

Rhino: Charge, Roar & Stomp.

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All these people wanting Rhino to be even slower seem to forget that regular Rhino is already at the slowest base speed in the game, his Thrak helmet allows him to be even slower. Try just running not dashing against a faster frame and see how slow he really is. For some reason Rhino Prime has a speed boost, and the Arcane Vanguard helmet offers another speed boost letting people reach very high speed, but putting a slow on Iron Skin would be mildly irritating for someone already running prime/vanguard but it would be soul crushingly slow and unplayable for someone who joined post helmet nerf without access to prime.

 

Another thing, very few abilities in the game come with punishments, in order to justify a skill suddenly having such a severe downside it would have to be an incredibly strong skill. If you think Iron Skin is giving players immortality, you are either a very new player who has yet to actually hit high level content or are very bad at this game and seem to forget that there are other frames who can achieve real invincibility.

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Rhino Charge intensified by Rhino Skin...

 

Rhino Skin seems like it should change and/or modify dmg if worn while executing Rhino Charge. A hardened Rhino from Iron Skin should hit harder with RC.

 

This would give both a bit of scalabilty and expand the options a bit.

Edited by RawGritz
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I think it would be fair to slow down Rhino, since he is the fattest frame, and still one of the fastest, plus there are too many advantages in Iron Skin. He's increasing his density, his weight should increase too, and it would justify the immunity to knockdowns.

I'm tired of seeing a frame so huge with such a heavy protection running faster than 80% of the other frames.

If the slow-down for the ability is not tolerable, I would like to see both of the editions of the frame receiving a global speed reduction to be more in line with his stature.

To me, it's Valkyr and Excalibur who are closer to the "mobile tank" archetypes. They should clearly outclass Rhino in Sprint Speed/agility (jumps, movements (make longer/kicker rolls/dodges, etc).

 

But again, this is just an opinion, and I do not pretend to be right. I respect your feeling about Rhino. Having a warframe powerful in everything is cool, I won't deny that. ^^

I was just trying to address my feeling of unfairness about him when compared to other frames, and the reputation of this frame to be a noob frame because of all the advantages of Iron Skin. I think it comes from the fact that this ability is too easy to use with too many benefits. The lack of counterparty of using it is the source of many lazy behaviors with Rhino (which is a shame, givin all the possibilities given by the 4 powers). I'm referencing to dudes performing: Spawns in mission, Casts Iron Skin, rushs through everything without brain, sometimes uses Stomp, end of mission/leaves before first rot C.

 

Rhino is not the fastest frame, Rhino at base is the slowest frame. Rhino Prime with a discontinued helmet is the fastest. It's hard to listen to anything that you have to say when you clearly don't even understand anything about the game your trying to comment on.

Edited by Yaer

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That would indeed help the Charge in case people build around Strenght (for Iron Skin) and Efficiency (for Stomp CC).

Another option is for the Charge distance to be affected by the Strength instead.

 

Since the current Charge distance depends on the speed (48m/s by default) and the duration (0.35 sec by default). It won't be too strange to switch things up and instead of the mods affecting the duration, they affect the speed instead. In which case the mods affecting the distance would be Strength mods.

 

It would go well with the rest of the skills as well, since all skills benefit from Strength.

 

 

Except we need less reasons to play max strength and more reasons to play max duration for Rhino.

By going max strength for Charge, people will play the easiest Rhino of all, the current one. All strength all efficiency no duration.

 

And just ignore Roar. Just like before.

How many Roar Rhinos can you find nowadays ?

 

Also a long duration stomp can be counter productive since it locks you out of stomp.

While a short duration Rhino can in theory stomp and keep knocking down enemies every 2 to 3 seconds.

Which allows for a turbo stomp tard build.

 

We need more reason for people to play a duration Rhino, NOT less.

So I vote no for Strength to charge.

Edited by fatpig84
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So, for Rhino's charge I was thinking, why not borrow from Overwatch's Reinhardt?

Have any enemies Rhino charges into get dragged with him, pulled and dropped where he stops his charge?

This would group enemies, provide better CC and give us a reason to build duration for him.

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I think the animation for Rhino Charge should be changed to where he thrusts his pelvis forward thereby he actually uses his horn to charge first.

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The Overwatch / Controllable charge concept is what I hope it looks like in the end. But I think that something like that sounds like a larger project than time permits atm (improved animation, behavior tweaks, etc).
 

It feels like the modified abilities are sort of 'proof of concept' tests. Ways of seeing how new/different game interactions affect the game and player enjoyment. Bowling over enemies can be a satisfying visual spectacle, and if it leaves people with a grin on their face and a sense of power then it's done it's job. Also, Rhino strikes me as one of the more team based frames - fixing the duration means more low level Rhinos looking/feeling like they contribute to the team much earlier. Hopefully it has an influence on playstyles and Rhino's meta image.

I look at Rhino and his abilities and I see him as sort of a paternal/enforcer type archetype. One of my hopes in seeing the Ragdoll change is seeing people creating space around downed teammates and absolutely feeling the part of a protector.

Thoughts on Iron Skin - Watching the threads, I've seen lots of idea's+desire for reworks to tweaks but not much solid consensus. Despite that, here's my pitch for a future Iron Skin rework (didn't want to feel left out :P)

When turned on it builds up damage reduction as Rhino takes damage. As DR builds, he loses an inverse amount of movement speed. I'm not solid with numbers, but +60% DR / -40to50% speed may be good caps for this.

Possible additions might include removing shield recharge delay and tweaks to base armor to make him less vulnerable on the move/not using iron skin. A short/long period of aggro also optional.

These ideas were stitched together hoping to give Rhino a more unique playstyle when using Iron Skin.

Edited by CrimsonNightSky
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Finally we can make the 0,1 sec Stomp for constant cc.

The 25 secs might eventually work tho, but since it can't be re-casted...

Not good for a chaotic Survival since new enemys will keep on coming.

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Won't lie, this will probably make me get a Rhino...After 2 years or resistance. :)

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somthing has to change for iron skin, like most people has said, its too perfect for Early game but becomes Tin foil after about level 50 or so.

 

as for the 4th's rhino stomp, its nice that it can be made longer with duration, although becasue the skill cannot be re-cast (as of now) while the effects are active, there really is no point adding Duration as it would only hurt the ability's Usability. Perhaps if it got the same treatment as Mag where for the period of the duration, any enemies that walks in, would be affect in some way as well (slowed down or brought to a stop as well)

 

just my suggestion, although i dont use rhino, so keep that in mind as well

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I'm happy to see that these changes aren't excessive. Every time Rhino experience a 'change' there is always a risk: make him too strong or too weak. 

 

Just an advice. If Stomp effect will be influenced by duration mods, we should able to recast it even if there still are enemies under its effect. The same for Nyx's Chaos. 

Edited by Latronico
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Since the current Charge distance depends on the speed (48m/s by default) and the duration (0.35 sec by default).

suddenly imagining having the lowest Power Strength possible on Rhino, and Rhino Charge suddenly moving about as fast as a brisk stroll.

haha.

It'd be nice if, upon slamming into a wall, Charge caused some sort of knockdown aoe. Bits of shrapnel and smoke flying out from where Rhino cratered himself. For no reason really outside of that it'd look cool and would be sort of helpful if you smack into map geometry.

that would indeed, be quite neat. looking pretty and being useful is ideal.

Rhino is now less tanky than Excalibur.

you'll surely get butthurt and completely deny it, but Excalibur has 4% more Damage Reduction than Rhino does.

the extra Armor means basically nothing. both Rhino and Excalibur will be killed within one or two bullets of each other for just Health and Armor comparison.

while Rhino has an Ability specifically for adding another Health Bar, and has more Shields.

i.e. no, Excalibur isn't more durable than Rhino. that would be completely false.

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I was thinking if Iron Skin would diration-based and is invulnerable. But not too long, maybe 10 seconds. Also it could do some bits of cc like bullets ricocheting or stun melee enemies, but as a consequence Rhino has slower movement.

Okay ideas aside. So anyway, will Change still be affected by duration, or will it go with range instead?

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Secondly, Iron Skin will be unchanged.

You know, I think I had an excellent idea for Iron Skin.  Maybe it's a bit OP, but I still think it's a great idea and I'd like folks' opinions on it:  

Iron Skin - Grants 2 seconds of invulnerability.  At the end of invulnerability, receive an amount of Ferrite armor relative to incoming damage during invulnerability period, but no less than (400/600/800/1200 * Power Strength).  Invulnerability does scale with duration (for a max of 5.64s,) however incoming damage is inversely scaled with duration such that duration grants neither an advantage or disadvantage in terms of damage absorbed during the invulnerability period.

 

(Basically, the longer invulnerability you have, the more damage you're going to take.  So we just scale it back so that duration in and of itself doesn't give an unfair advantage.)

Edited by Irkalla

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Secondly, Iron Skin will be unchanged.  

Just... what? Everything else sounds pretty great (though I'm a bit confused on roar not scaling duration with leveling, but it's not that big a deal), but iron skin is THE thing that Rhino needs reworked- even if nothing else changes. Saying straight out, Iron skin tanking like a boss at low levels but letting Rhino get 1shot through it in anything actually serious is the reason he's a bad frame- and the reason he teaches new players to run out into crowds of enemies thinking they are immortal and wonder why they're dying later in the game- rather than learning how to use the game's mechanics. They don't feel a threat at low levels so they never bother to learn to move fast, evade gunfire, figure out where enemies are quickly so they can keep from dying. This wouldn't be such a big issue if he wasn't basically handed to newer players as a starter frame- being placed on venus (yes I know he's MR locked but it's not that bad frankly). Even still, his iron skin needs to change. He will never be late-game viable with the changes listed here as far as I'm concerned- so long as his iron skin remains the same. I saw a WONDERFUL idea posted on forums for an iron skin change that I will relist here in hopes it's thought over:

 

Change iron skin to act similar to a nullifier bubble. Shot taken = under x damage? Raise to Y damage. Shot taken = over z damage? Raise to Q damage. This will keep Iron Skin from being quite as OP early game, and yet also MAJORLY improve it later game. The "maximum damage dealt to Iron Skin" value can be placed high enough in respect to how much health you can get it to with or without mods so that it is not overpowered late game- but you're not 1 shot through your protection and you don't have to recast every 2 seconds.

 

PLEASE look at Iron Skin as well DE.

 

P.S. Also, the "tank" frame having less armor than the shiny swordsman poster boy has been a hot topic in game lately- hopefully Rhino will get a nice large armor buff.

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Lastly, Rhino Stomp:

 

As it stands, the Stasis portion of Rhino's Stomp has an 8 second flat-rate that is not affected by Duration mods. However, we are going to apply the benefits of Duration modding to this part of the ability. This means you can now mod for a longer or shorter Duration (depending on the mods used).

 

We're aiming to have this in your hands for feedback this week on PC!

 

Please make Rhino stomp castable in air again, for the player's who like using with alot of movment's that's all were missing,

i use to have alot of fun with rhino back then when u could cast the stomp in the air, just flying around the map with no need to get to ground,

wait till rhino hit's the ground and only then cast his only cc ability.

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 These changes sound promising! 

Although I don't play as a Rhino since quite a while, I very often encounter Rhino players on missions and I must say .... 

1) Rhino Charge - this power's rework will surely increase Rhino's survivability, it's a low dmg, not good but a decent mobility power and now it'll have it's own kick. Nice!

2) Iron Skin - nothing changed. I agree, this power is a good one (know from my experiences while still playing Rhino and from what I see with other players).

3) Roar - this is a super change! 30 sec base duration + can be increased by Duration Mods up to a 1min 30secs, woah! Will make Rhino a bit more into support-tank ... I love Roar's buff but it really last too short. I am happy and maybe I'll re-craft my Rhino again.

4) Rhino Stomp - more CC viability for Stomp, be it longer or slower ... somehow I imagined slow/fast Nova effect but with Corrupted Mods it's possible right? :P


Don't forget some basic stats buff ( maybe armor buff since Ex'cal has higher armor than Rhino now) and also Standard vs Prime stats.  

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you'll surely get butthurt and completely deny it, but Excalibur has 4% more Damage Reduction than Rhino does.

the extra Armor means basically nothing. both Rhino and Excalibur will be killed within one or two bullets of each other for just Health and Armor comparison.

while Rhino has an Ability specifically for adding another Health Bar, and has more Shields.

i.e. no, Excalibur isn't more durable than Rhino. that would be completely false.

 

The difference in their bulkiness now isn't so much to do with their armor values as it is with Exalted Blade's innate auto-parry. While the parry doesn't block attacks from behind Excal or to his sides, being able to null all damage directly in front of himself is quite a significant boost in survivability.

 

Otherwise, yeah, they are very similar in terms of Effective HP. Hmm. A substantial armor buff wouldn't hurt at all on Rhino in that case.

Edited by Noble_Cactus

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Secondly, Iron Skin will be unchanged.  

 

Can we please be able to change it's colour? Fo real.

Edited by Clamlon
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Can we have his Rhino charge make some knockdown AoE when he hits a wall or something? Feels sorta iffy when he just sorta slides across the wall with charge. 

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ROAR need something MOAR   (maybe it should stop ennemies in range for 1 sec and agro all of them)

 

beside damage, its a given that skills must have various utilities

 

 

 

Rhino charge sound legit with innate rag-doll, now it should stop on target just like slash dash and should be able to propel you in air like a freaking Missile

Edited by Tsoe

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