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[Warframe Concept] Furion - Melee/beast Warframe [4Th Ability Changed And New Artwork]


daemonstar
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6 hours ago, HugintheCrow said:

Since people still think this is a good concept, I thought I'd dissect it to show all the problems it has.

The only thing that works here is the art, undeniably, Daemonstar can draw. He can't make a balanced warframe though.

Ability 1: "Become useless". You lose your guns and gain a sub-par melee (Why sub-par? The ability costs no energy. You think it should deal damage even close to let's say Khora's Whipclaw?) Moving on walls or ceilings is a cool-sounding idea that does nothing in reality. Useless pointless ability that makes you weaker when you use it.

Augment 1: I'm not going to comment on bad jokes. That's it.

Ability 2: Jump on a guy, knock them down. Jump on the wall, you can wall cling to it. As if you can't do that with any warframe. you can just bullet jump next to a guy to knock them down. You can just use the wall cling that all warframes have. This ability does nothing. What the hell?

Ability 3: It's not even funny, it's a weak, one unit damaging ability, you get barely any health out of it, you deal no damage, you get murdered for going so close to the enemies.

Augment 3: So you get to see a guy through walls, except you just walked to melee range to bite them. I don't see a speck of logic here. There was no thought put into this waste of slot.

Ability 4: You get negligible amounts of stats, awesome. how do you get them? Oh, you just stand still for 3-1 seconds, dying in the process. You WILL die if you use this ability anywhere in actually harder content. I thought this frame was supposed to scale, bu how can you scale when you are designed to kill only yourself?

Augment 4: This is boring. You get stats. Augments aren't supposed to be stat boosts, they should add interesting interactions and bonuses. The added time gating makes this just worthless in any non-endless mission, which i suppose would be fine, but the frame is worthless in endless mission with no cc nor utility so why the hell would I want to be slightly less useless, when any other frame would be better than this garbage?

Conclusion: While the visuals are very compelling, the frame itself suffers from so many problems I doubt it could ever be implemented in even barely similar state. You'd have to completely remake every single ability to make something interesting out of it.

It is a good concept - numbers aren't everything, and by now Zephyr and Chroma are completely different on the back-end than the original concepts were. Judging based on numbers here makes no sense.

Ability 1: It's certainly not useless any more than ANY Warframe is useless... Unless you're judging it based on end-game Lv200 enemies' standards, in which case a LOT of Warframes can be pretty useless most of the time.
Augment 1: I remember a day when people thought Nidus made no sense. Now we have story spoilers.

Ability 2: Valkyr has an augment that jumps on a guy and knocks them down - this would be easy to implement. The fact that it sticks to walls - indefinitely - and allows you to MOVE AROUND ON THE WALL is the selling point. It's like the Xenomorph from AvP 2010 on 360. Sign me up.

Ability 3: Again, judged based on numbers, you're right. That's what developer hands are for - balance before release.

Augment 3: I can't defend it, you're right. But again, this is what pre-release revisions are for.

Ability 4: Judging based on numbers, no comment there. It could scale, depending on the ceiling DE enforced on it, and it would depend on the player being skilled enough to isolate an enemy for long enough to devour, then hunt down another target. If we're talking solo-survival, 1) Why are you doing that anyway except to stroke your own ego?, and 2) Yes, clearly he's going to end up capping out and being outdone by the enemy. Like almost any other Warframe.

Augment 4: Again, can't defend it, you're right. Again, pre-release revision.

Conclusion: The abilities themselves don't need much work, it's the NUMBERS that need work. As a concept, the frame is perfectly solid. 1 should take energy like Equinox's does, 2 functions similar to Valkyr's 4 augment, 3 allows him to self-sustain, 4 gives him some scaling for 20-40min runs of higher end missions or sorties. He'd be fine. It's all in the numbers. If NIDUS can scale up and stack up and hold his own, Furion could too.

And before anyone goes, "Oh, he's just a mash-up of other frames," that's mostly all we have now. Revenant: 1 Nyx, 2 Rhino/Nezha, 3 Hydroid, 4 Mirage. Khora: 1 Gara/Excalibur/Ember/etc, 2 Equinox, 3 Atlas/Nyx/Loki, 4 Frost/Vauban/Nyx. Etcetera ad nauseam. He's fine.

Edited by Max7238
My brain switched from Khora to Gara at the end for some reason. That made no sense. Fixed.
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4 hours ago, Max7238 said:

It is a good concept - numbers aren't everything, and by now Zephyr and Chroma are completely different on the back-end than the original concepts were. Judging based on numbers here makes no sense.

I'm not judging just by numbers. Mechanically and thematically this frame is bad.  Calling Zephyr and Chroma well-designed is funny but I thought this wasn't a joke contest, but a discussion.

4 hours ago, Max7238 said:

Ability 1: It's certainly not useless any more than ANY Warframe is useless... Unless you're judging it based on end-game Lv200 enemies' standards, in which case a LOT of Warframes can be pretty useless most of the time.

Khora's 1 which I mentioned is a very powerful ability, Nidus's 1 is a avery powerful ability. Yes, there are 1s that are pretty weak (like Chroma you mentioned), but hw does that matter, when this ability does nothing but make you weaker for no reason. You completely dodged around my point and didn't address the fact that the ability does nothing.

4 hours ago, Max7238 said:

Augment 1: I remember a day when people thought Nidus made no sense. Now we have story spoilers.

You what? Being not targeted by infested in a minimal range, where they will aggro on you anyway from farther away us completely useless. It's not that I don't understand the ability, the ability is wortless.

4 hours ago, Max7238 said:

Ability 2: Valkyr has an augment that jumps on a guy and knocks them down - this would be easy to implement. The fact that it sticks to walls - indefinitely - and allows you to MOVE AROUND ON THE WALL is the selling point. It's like the Xenomorph from AvP 2010 on 360. Sign me up.

And that augment is useless and not used by any good Valkyr player. Your point?

"MUH ALIENS" And? Go and play avp if you want to be an alien. This is warframe and if you didn't notice, y have so many mobility and traversal options in this game, any more are completely unneeded.

Seems like my impression that people like this trash, just because muh aliens was correct. Who cares how bad it is, my nostalgia got stroked, right?

4 hours ago, Max7238 said:

Ability 3: Again, judged based on numbers, you're right. That's what developer hands are for - balance before release.

No. Judged by the fact it's a single target ability, it's worthless. Frames don't exist in a void, you HAVE to compare them to others to see if their abilities make sense. What Furion's role is? CC? No, he has no Crowd Control whatsoever outside of a single target knockdown (cue laughtracks). Utility/Support? No, he brings nothing to his team. Damage? He has no aoe at all. He takes million years to setup. The moment he tries to start dealing damage, big brother Nidus has killed all the enemies on the map. and if big sister Saryn is there as well, he gets to sit twidling his thumbs for the whole mission.

4 hours ago, Max7238 said:

Ability 4: Judging based on numbers, no comment there. It could scale, depending on the ceiling DE enforced on it, and it would depend on the player being skilled enough to isolate an enemy for long enough to devour, then hunt down another target. If we're talking solo-survival, 1) Why are you doing that anyway except to stroke your own ego?, and 2) Yes, clearly he's going to end up capping out and being outdone by the enemy. Like almost any other Warframe.

This is where you make an actual point. Yes, this frame could be used in Solo Survival. That's literally the only thing he can do okay-ishly. But then there are better choices anyway.

inb4: Who cares about making the best choice every time?

Well, who cares about your speshul snowflake need to gimp yourself? When developing a frame, it should be made in viability in mind.

4 hours ago, Max7238 said:

It would depend on the player being skilled enough to isolate an enemy for long enough to devour, then hunt down another target

Oh, yeah that sounds so hard *sarcasm*. But then it makes him a stealth frame. Which he's not. Ivara and Loki absolutely demolish him in this regard.

4 hours ago, Max7238 said:

If NIDUS can scale up and stack up and hold his own, Furion could too.

You forgot that Nidus has insane aoe, extremely powerful Crowd Control, giant amounts of survivability out of the box, no time-gated stacks needed, oh, and he actually has some utility as well. Furion can walk on walls.

4 hours ago, Max7238 said:

And before anyone goes, "Oh, he's just a mash-up of other frames," that's mostly all we have now

Nowhere have I suggested he's acopy of something. Actually it's his originality that hurts him. He's useless because he tries to hard to be unique and different, with too many new mechanics that wouldn't actually work in the game.

For the last time, stop using "muh aliens" as an argument. It is not a valid reason to have an ability, if it doesn't actually give you any advantage in Warframe.

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Gee, wow, I'm so sorry I didn't try to make a case around viability in a team to cater to the hardcore players and the current meta. Here, let me fix that:

Not.

Again, you're right, the "best" damage frames have crazy AOE. You're right that he's not much in the way of support, or really any role.
I hope you had fun ripping the concept apart like that. It seems like you did.

But the fact is that we're playing a VIDEO GAME for FUN. And, as it turns out, this concept would be a lot of FUN to play.

Does it need work to be conventionally viable in a team environment at high levels? Absolutely. I never said he didn't. I agreed with you where you made that point, because there is no argument against it as long as the frame concept is under the control of someone who hasn't changed it in years.

But is that the point? No. Maybe to you, it is. I don't know why you chose to come in here and get your kicks by ripping on what other people find cool and would enjoy playing - but you did, and you made valid points, and no one's gonna try and take that away or tell you you're wrong. It's just not why the frame has a following.

 

Now, if you've got something CONSTRUCTIVE to say - suggestions to keep the theme but make the frame viable in a team setting - by all means. I'm absolutely listening.
Otherwise, you're arguing for argument's sake - something I enjoy myself - and cluttering a thread that most people think should have died a long time ago.

Personally, I'd like to see him gain an ability to replace one he already has that would give energy to his team at the cost of his HP or something - without the need to damage or kill anything else. That way, a tanky frame like him would be useful in, say, Eidolon hunts where energy can be annoying because even Trinity needs a valid target to use EV.

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On 2018-10-19 at 1:50 AM, HugintheCrow said:

The only thing that works here is the art, undeniably, Daemonstar can draw. He can't make a balanced warframe though.

To be fair though, the conecpt was thought out and made in 2015, Warframe was a bit diffrent back then.

And back then this conecpt was a nice fresh idea, and we didnt had Nidus back then either.

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On ‎2018‎-‎10‎-‎20 at 1:24 PM, Max7238 said:

Gee, wow, I'm so sorry I didn't try to make a case around viability in a team to cater to the hardcore players and the current meta. Here, let me fix that:

Not.

Again, you're right, the "best" damage frames have crazy AOE. You're right that he's not much in the way of support, or really any role.
I hope you had fun ripping the concept apart like that. It seems like you did.

But the fact is that we're playing a VIDEO GAME for FUN. And, as it turns out, this concept would be a lot of FUN to play.

Does it need work to be conventionally viable in a team environment at high levels? Absolutely. I never said he didn't. I agreed with you where you made that point, because there is no argument against it as long as the frame concept is under the control of someone who hasn't changed it in years.

But is that the point? No. Maybe to you, it is. I don't know why you chose to come in here and get your kicks by ripping on what other people find cool and would enjoy playing - but you did, and you made valid points, and no one's gonna try and take that away or tell you you're wrong. It's just not why the frame has a following.

 

Now, if you've got something CONSTRUCTIVE to say - suggestions to keep the theme but make the frame viable in a team setting - by all means. I'm absolutely listening.
Otherwise, you're arguing for argument's sake - something I enjoy myself - and cluttering a thread that most people think should have died a long time ago.

Personally, I'd like to see him gain an ability to replace one he already has that would give energy to his team at the cost of his HP or something - without the need to damage or kill anything else. That way, a tanky frame like him would be useful in, say, Eidolon hunts where energy can be annoying because even Trinity needs a valid target to use EV.

Thumbs up for defending probably the best concept in the forums, honestly I can care less if the stats are good/viable, I know plenty of people who play "bad" frames just because they are fun and challenging to use in certain roles and based on how many people replied to this concept I find that many people would love this frame even if it cant kill anything past level 40 enemies. personally most of my endgame is finding something fun to do, I feel like this concept would be a blast, especially out in open world maps.

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I tend to agree. I play what I want, not what's good. I'm MR21. If I felt like it, I have the resources to maximize a frame, maximize a build, and never be challenged by another thing. Even as it is, I can run Arbitrations and whatnot with little issue as long as I put some effort into it. I just want frames that are fun to play that scale enough for me to use them in sorties or Arbitration. This would be one of those frames.

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Some keep thinking that they took the ideas from this and made it into Nidus. It was actually Inaros they used the ideas for. Nidus came almost a year afterwards. Hell, I wanted this frame back in 2015 and even commented about it. They never did though, and they won't ever. They atleast took some of my favorite ideas and put them into Inaros (whom happens to be my favorite upon release). Maybe one day we'll get something like this, but I don't have much hope for it. RIP

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On 2015-06-25 at 10:23 PM, daemonstar said:

Here's very first topic post and my idea on a warframe. I've got a couple more but here is the first one. Anyhow, I'm inspired by chroma, being like a dragon and all. I wanted a more animalistic warframe that crawls around the wall or waiting to ambush the prey by hanging on ceilings. (Remember AVP game? like how the xenomorphs moves? I wanted something like that.) Abilities to climb walls and ceilings would be so cool. Let me know what you guys think? 

 

VySGm5t.jpg

 

 

Po67qvz.jpg

 

 

is2cVDD.jpg

 

 

WjNtd3z.jpg

 

Update 29/6/2015

- passive slightly changed

- savage bite now gains health

 

Update 6/8/2015

- 4th ability changed, ' Devour '

- New artworks on 4th ability

Woof love to see this ruff design in warframe

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On 2015-06-26 at 4:23 AM, daemonstar said:

Here's very first topic post and my idea on a warframe. I've got a couple more but here is the first one. Anyhow, I'm inspired by chroma, being like a dragon and all. I wanted a more animalistic warframe that crawls around the wall or waiting to ambush the prey by hanging on ceilings. (Remember AVP game? like how the xenomorphs moves? I wanted something like that.) Abilities to climb walls and ceilings would be so cool. Let me know what you guys think? 

 

VySGm5t.jpg

 

 

Po67qvz.jpg

 

 

is2cVDD.jpg

 

 

WjNtd3z.jpg

 

Update 29/6/2015

- passive slightly changed

- savage bite now gains health

 

Update 6/8/2015

- 4th ability changed, ' Devour '

- New artworks on 4th ability

DE NEEDS to add this, i dont care if some people claim its similar to nidus, there might be some similarities but theres way more differences, imagine running through a corridor mashing the attack button and mauling everything in front of you like when your a werewolf on skyrim, if this warframe came out ide pay to have it instantly (providing it wouldnt be a quest warframe, but hell having a quest for this thing would be amazing)

it would also work with how exalted weapons are their own thing in the loadout now, imagine having your normal mod setup for the warframe, then having a mod setup specifically for the beast mode, i REALLY wish theyde add this

Edited by Joltyboi
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I want this frame on the game, RIGHT. NOW!

 

But i would say he needs some CC Abilities, cuz one-target frames are not much usefull for squads, i mean Garuda is an example, she's powerfull but i don't play with her in squads, u know what i mean?

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