Hotfix 16.10.1

[Circle_of_Psi]

What about the Simlor bugs and how bad it is?

[Multicom-EN-]

cause 200% when fully maxed will bring most weapons into the red crit zone.. witch i dont think they want... the mod is fine stop complaining

Mind telling me which secondaries that can reach 100+% even with a 200% crit chance? That's right, none of them. Do some research next time ;)

[Tesseract7777]

This mod is still a complete waste of time even after the update. I won't be buying it and I know many others feel the same. I honestly feel like this mod is actually a little insulting. I think it's kind of sad that even after the hotfix the changes are not even close to what the community wants... 

 

DE, do you listen to the community? 

[Flowen231]

Come on why not 20%?

 

 

Uh...

 

Was there a mistake or something?

 

Pistol Gambit is 20% per level, not 15% or 17%.

 

 

Mod's a joke? why not put the increase values based on the regular pistol gambit mod? Not worth my time or investment to max out this mod, unless another pistol comes out in this game with higher crit chance than 20% This primed mod is so obsolete for the rewards it gives us back for investing 500+ fusion cores. Nty.

 

 

This isn't even in regards to what players want.  This is a simple game mechanic with the mods, it's otherwise known as a bug.  20% is what this should be, no ifs, ands, or buts.  This is a matter of just doing the numbers right.

DE... It's not often when any post get more upvotes than your original one in the hotfix topic, let alone 3. And the 4th guy is right, Pistol Gambit is a 20% base chance, there is no reason whatsoever to make it any less (I mean, you may as well not have released the mod at all if you were against treating it the same way that you have been treating the rest of the primed mods.) and this wasn't even the case with primed ravage.

 

Please, make it 20%, that's what it should be and that's what we want.

[CryEinsiedler]

 

• Fixed elements of the UI being cut off in 1280x1024 resolution.

 

 

Thank you very much!

 

P.S.: Please, add 5:4 aspect ratio. 4:3 is not good enough.

Edited June 27, 2015 by CryEinsiedler

[Ashnal]

you do realize that greedy pull is not the culprit of why the game is having such problems with camping and maximizing performance?

Explain Excalibur Pre-nerf in U15, how that played out when he spammed javelins for rep farm in draco. Tell me how people didn't gather so much loot and exp from him that all he did was spam 4, let the last unit live, and grab all the loot before finishing off a wave.

Tell me how this would change the game when people start asking for EV trinity in Draco runs, tell me how the same set up won't be implemented directly with Mesa to use her 4, run out of energy for EV trinity to cap her energy and continue as the rest of the team loots and run around.--> how would this exactly change any sort of path towards long term goals when players will always seek the most effective way to farm and progress in this game?

Honestly surprising seeing how you talk about veterans in this game, yet you have no idea how the game mechanics in this game works. What about Tower Survival Camp missions, should we nerf Vauban Vortex as well? and lets get rid of speed nova because she can manipulate all enemies to run into Vauban vortex, yea lets nerf Nekros for giving us more loot for kills as we afk, and on top of that let's nerf all weapons that are OP and can contribute to such things like the Torrid and other warframes like Sayrn who can spam ult.. yea man LET'S NERF THE WORLD. Because everything is too OP especially in the one utlity skill that makes Gmag rather go for Pro-team play you wanna punish everyone because you think everyone just runs around as a gmag pulling loot for a lazy man's game. 

The problem here is the grind. Improve that and you'll see less gmag's running around since everyone's desperate for loot.

 

First things first. I am a verteran. I'm a founder and have been playing since open beta started. I'm MR 19 and have finished almost all the content the game has to offer. I still play nowadays when new content comes out, and to help my friends. I'm very familiar with almost every piece of content in the game.

 

I'm not denying that there are efficient ways to farm. There always will be. You missed the spirit of what I was trying to say. The challenge in designing a fun game is that the most efficient method should be the most fun. I have nothing wrong with efficiency itself, only when efficiency is boring.

 

To understand what I'm talking about, lets go back to how syndicates were introduced. They required a lot of affinity to gain enough rep to buy the things everyone wanted. Naturally people found out ways to maximize their rep gain. However these ways were incredibly boring. Stand in one spot spamming radial javelin or peacemaker and being fed energy by either restore plates or a trinity. Then look at what DE did in response. IMO, it was the best thing they could have done. They implemented a rep cap, increased regular capped rep gain, but even better, they added syndicate missions with optional medallions that change every day. Key part being that those mission types change every day, and offer varying styles of gameplay. They are also the most optimal way to gain rep. A lot more fun than standing in one place spamming one button eh? At least to me, running through mission types I might not do every day normally and getting a good rep reward for it is great.

 

Greedy Mag is an enabler. And by that extension so is Trinity, and Energy Plates. The frames should have powerful abilities, but those abilities should be limited by energy consumption. Greedy Mag is one way to ease that energy consumption limiter, by allowing players to stand in one spot and spam abilities. You take away the ability to regain energy by standing in one spot and you solve the AFK/Botting problem as well as most of the dreadfully boring camp strats that players feel forced to do. 

 

Also here's a newsflash, no matter what level of grind that players have to go through, they will always find the most efficient way. Even if the grind were reduced, people would still bore themselves to death with efficient camp strats, reducing the grind does nothing to fix player engagement. Fixing core gameplay mechanics does. If the core gamplay is engaging and fun, then the grind doesn't really matter that much since you're having fun while you're doing it and enjoying the game for what it is, rather than just playing a slot machine waiting for the reels to stop while you watch a movie.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Ashnal

[unknow99]

Vingt.

 

Twintig.

 

Twenty.

[Vannell]

If the core gample is engaging and fun, then the grind doesn't really matter that much since you're having fun while you're doing it and enjoying the game for what it is, rather than just playing a slot machine waiting for the reels to stop while you watch a movie.

 

This.

 

Also, it's not like 17% or 20% changed a lot of things...

 

You'll still crit slightly above 50%...

 

So I don't see the deal. Just because the Primed Pistol Gambit don't have the same base value as it's Normal version...

 

I mean, take a 20% CritChance weapon...

 

Put that 187% (if the base value is 17%) , you get 57% (58% if rounded up), and 67% with Creeping Bullseye.

 

Now put that 220% (if the base value is 20%), you get 64%, and 73% (74% if rounded up) with Creeping Bullseye.

 

So, there's what, a ~7-9% difference?

 

Does it really matter since the critical is already high enough to get at least a critical hit 50% of the time...?

 

(Also if you take a 15% CritChance weapon, it's almost the same, around 50~55% with Creeping and 187%.)

Edited June 27, 2015 by Vannell

[Iron-Phoenix]

I still wont use primed pistol gambit... 187 is kinda closse to 120... if it was 20 % was the best since its a PRIMED item (UPGRADED) well w/e. looking for another crit mod.

[Sebastianx]

 

 

• Fixed elements of the UI being cut off in 1280x1024 resolution.

 

YES, had to wait a year and a half for it, BUT YES, FINALLY I CAN SEE THE INTERFACE AND THE STAR CHART IN ALL ITS GLORY 1 WEEK BEFORE IT GETS REMOVED.

[Raziel969]

Primed are Legendary as their cost to rank up. That's why it deserve to be 20%, more the final difference will be only 6% (58%-64%). I wonder why for this useless spread you want so may player unenthusiastic....

It's full of other games out there, keep the enthusiasm level up should be your priority!

 

ps ...sure that removing coptering will be another sad step....

[RealPandemonium]

Come on why not 20%?

More like why do we need a primed mod to make critical builds worth it on secondaries?  DE says that they want to move away from the void grinding meta but in the end it's all about the void trader's blend of bandaids and powercreep?

[sickness24]

I still wont use primed pistol gambit... 187 is kinda closse to 120... if it was 20 % was the best since its a PRIMED item (UPGRADED) well w/e. looking for another crit mod.

 

Do you even numbers? 187 is 67 more wich isnt even remotly close, close would be 130-135. While i conceed to your arguement that it is not equal to the original mod, wich is a first time this happened to a primed mod, it in no way is too close to the original.

[ZionageV2]

THx

[PEPIYEA]

Hey DE,i think you need to wear glases,Primed Pistol Gambit need to have 20% base crit. chance.

[SolisLumen]

Ehm... since 16.10.1 i cant start the game... crashes after i press Play on Update Screen. Help? :(

[SickoSike]

Also here's a newsflash, no matter what level of grind that players have to go through, they will always find the most efficient way. Even if the grind were reduced, people would still bore themselves to death with efficient camp strats, reducing the grind does nothing to fix player engagement. Fixing core gameplay mechanics does. If the core gamplay is engaging and fun, then the grind doesn't really matter that much since you're having fun while you're doing it and enjoying the game for what it is, rather than just playing a slot machine waiting for the reels to stop while you watch a movie.

That's about the only thing you said that made sense, besides anything relevant on the topic you were trying to bring up about farming and grinding in this game, and with the syndicates, what I don't get is that your're contradicting yourself by pointing out the root of the problem then say Gmag is the problem when she's only a symptom IMO leave greedy pull as it is, farming has always been a major factor in this game, whether it's by rushing missions quickly to assassinate or capture or finding proper loot caves, it was always a part and essence of this game which you can't deny. Leave greedy pull again it's not a problem but a symptom of it the main issue As you pointed out yourself.

When the syndicates came out nobody knew anything about draco yet btw. The affinity being tied with reputation points were being put to the test when Vivergate was being abused, hence why DE implemented some changes and removed the interception mode at Vivergate and replace it all back to the original infested mission map it was.

You don't gotta tell me how you're a veteran of this game, I could easily tell by your pic your're a veteran, and honestly I'm appalled how you claim you understand game mechanics yet think Gmag is one huge major problem when other frames would make it seem to be trivialized to be such problems like Mesa, DE nerfed Excalibur around U15 because he cleared everything and his 4 was abused on Draco. That didn't solve anything, when Mesa came out people started using her, before that if you didn't know, MAG was considered an alternative after Excalibur nerf, however the team composition was a lot more complicated and not everyone had frames to easily buff mag to spam 4 to clear Draco, but it was still viable because her 4 is, and still not based on LoS. 

What I'm trying to say is, what you seem to be missing the point of what others are saying as well, no matter how hard you wanna nerf cheese tactics, more cheese tactics will come up and you will for sure I guarantee will complain about those other frames as well. Nerfing does nothing except make players angry and leave, and while you think that's a good thing, it's not. It doesn't solve anything, and DE loses more customers everyday when they're not updating us with new content, because that's whats basically keeping this game alive. Where's the endgame content? Fusion cores and Primed R10 mods? don't kid me, I'm MR 12 and I've basically maxed out all my mods. Being MR 19? where's the fruit of that labor you did? when so many others can just reach up to you by abusing RNG and map tiles.

How many ''active'' Tenno players do you see today playing this game? Most are Afk at Draco as we speak, this is a huge risk for DE to take especially with new updates they're coming up with if they wanna kill off all Macroers and campers today because most of those people I guarantee make up a certain volume and percentage of the player base today.

Take a look at this video if you have time, You've heard of Mogamu yes? Listen to what he has to say about this matter as well, because it's been one heck of a serious issue with this game.

also

 

Edited June 27, 2015 by mikecliffs

[R34LM]

First things first. I am a verteran. I'm a founder and have been playing since open beta started. I'm MR 19 and have finished almost all the content the game has to offer. I still play nowadays when new content comes out, and to help my friends. I'm very familiar with almost every piece of content in the game.

 

I'm not denying that there are efficient ways to farm. There always will be. You missed the spirit of what I was trying to say. The challenge in designing a fun game is that the most efficient method should be the most fun. I have nothing wrong with efficiency itself, only when efficiency is boring.

 

To understand what I'm talking about, lets go back to how syndicates were introduced. They required a lot of affinity to gain enough rep to buy the things everyone wanted. Naturally people found out ways to maximize their rep gain. However these ways were incredibly boring. Stand in one spot spamming radial javelin or peacemaker and being fed energy by either restore plates or a trinity. Then look at what DE did in response. IMO, it was the best thing they could have done. They implemented a rep cap, increased regular capped rep gain, but even better, they added syndicate missions with optional medallions that change every day. Key part being that those mission types change every day, and offer varying styles of gameplay. They are also the most optimal way to gain rep. A lot more fun than standing in one place spamming one button eh? At least to me, running through mission types I might not do every day normally and getting a good rep reward for it is great.

 

Greedy Mag is an enabler. And by that extension so is Trinity, and Energy Plates. The frames should have powerful abilities, but those abilities should be limited by energy consumption. Greedy Mag is one way to ease that energy consumption limiter, by allowing players to stand in one spot and spam abilities. You take away the ability to regain energy by standing in one spot and you solve the AFK/Botting problem as well as most of the dreadfully boring camp strats that players feel forced to do. 

 

Also here's a newsflash, no matter what level of grind that players have to go through, they will always find the most efficient way. Even if the grind were reduced, people would still bore themselves to death with efficient camp strats, reducing the grind does nothing to fix player engagement. Fixing core gameplay mechanics does. If the core gamplay is engaging and fun, then the grind doesn't really matter that much since you're having fun while you're doing it and enjoying the game for what it is, rather than just playing a slot machine waiting for the reels to stop while you watch a movie.

 

 

I find you contradicting yourself here while trying to defend long term goals that the game has. Let me just tell you one thing: long term goals mean nothing to me because I don't play the game daily as if it were a life. No game I have played has given me a long term goal that I have not set my self for creative purposes (take minecraft, and I damn well enjoy the ride to the end). In this game, it is a long term goal because it is forced to be long term by daily rep caps and how much you can farm without melting your brain. Don't bother trying to explain a long term goal to a casual player who doesn't see the worth of the goal for the time an work spent in it. I play the game to play, not work, grind and be forced to play button simulations to make the work and grind much less painful. Also, consider what we actually have to do to farm or level gear. Kill a bunch of enemies. That's it. Spy 2.0 was a godsend because it gives you an alternate means to rack up xp, in spy missions and in stealth boosters. But the only other way to get a substantial amount of xp is just to kill a crap ton on enemies. You can't tell me that that gets boring (or rage inducing if you are dealing with cheap, higher level enemies) after an hour; therefore, you can not tell me that the ride towards the end is at all enjoyable. Farming and leveling is work. Sure, there is the idea of payoff when you finally get that 6 forma'd weapon, but the balance of actual worth for the time spent teeters back and forth violently.

 

As to your point that players will always find a way, then Greedy Pull changes would solve nothing, as people would just find new ways to exploit mechanics; then you'll just be wanting "this" ability or augment nerfed because it is being abused. Change why we are abusing said abilities, not what we are abusing.

Edited June 27, 2015 by R34LM

[killermonkeyX2]

nice

 

[geninrising]

Honestly the only thing that would make this mod worthwhile would be a base increase of 25%. Look at it this way, you guys want to continually put out mods we WANT in order to either give us long term goals or boost platinum sales right? That is the purpose behind every release, keeping players attracted to the game. The simple fact is that unless this mod is a 25% increase it has no value to 98% of our secondary fire arms. In fact even at a 25% increase the mod would still be utterly worthless on about 75% of secondaries.

 

By making it 25% you will be increasing build variance in a full 23-25% of all secondaries and this is a GREAT thing. Build variance is honestly what you guys have been trying to figure out and the fact is that you can either buff tons of guns to balance them out or buff a few mods to give us the option of increasing certain weapons firepower ourselves.

 

The fact is that there will always be a few kings of primary or secondary due to the hoard shooter gameplay you guys have created. The question is, are you invested in creating player agency with weapon selection or are you purposefully inhibiting said agency?

[Naqel]

I can't wait for coptering to be removed so I can run on walls like a derpy wall running rabbit at 1/10th the speed of someone who knows how to actually copter! /sarcasm

 

Not sure I'll be able to enjoy most aspects of this game after that happens.

 

The game probably dosen't enjoy you either.

If it being gone will make you go away too, then as sad as it'll be for all parties involved, it'll probably be for the best.

 

Coptering, by all sane definitions, is an exploit of the physics engine, you are not meant to play that way, and it's GOOD that it's finally gone.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Naqel

[TenguBlade]

I am immensely pissed here.  I'd like to swear, but I think your filter will remove this comment. 

 

If you're Zephyr, and activate turbulence, the Bombards inst-kill you.  Full health, done to dead with one projectile.  I had all four of my revives taken from me by one bombard, and failed a survival on my way to the exit. 

Don't know what you're doing, but you're playing Zephyr wrong.  Firstly, what you mentioned does not happen.  It never did.  Secondly, why are you standing around while the missile deflects into a wall and damages you?

 

There are genuine complaints that can be said about this game, but your lack of skill isn't one of them.

Edited June 28, 2015 by TenguBlade

[Tuuhea_Takasumu]

Still no fix for: Exalted blade unarming you of items, powers and weapons.

[Multicom-EN-]

Still no fix for daily trades not resetting!! I'm on day 5 or 6 now, please FIX it already.

[Ashnal]

That's about the only thing you said that made sense, besides anything relevant on the topic you were trying to bring up about farming and grinding in this game, and with the syndicates, what I don't get is that your're contradicting yourself by pointing out the root of the problem then say Gmag is the problem when she's only a symptom IMO leave greedy pull as it is, farming has always been a major factor in this game, whether it's by rushing missions quickly to assassinate or capture or finding proper loot caves, it was always a part and essence of this game which you can't deny. Leave greedy pull again it's not a problem but a symptom of it the main issue As you pointed out yourself.

When the syndicates came out nobody knew anything about draco yet btw. The affinity being tied with reputation points were being put to the test when Vivergate was being abused, hence why DE implemented some changes and removed the interception mode at Vivergate and replace it all back to the original infested mission map it was.

You don't gotta tell me how you're a veteran of this game, I could easily tell by your pic your're a veteran, and honestly I'm appalled how you claim you understand game mechanics yet think Gmag is one huge major problem when other frames would make it seem to be trivialized to be such problems like Mesa, DE nerfed Excalibur around U15 because he cleared everything and his 4 was abused on Draco. That didn't solve anything, when Mesa came out people started using her, before that if you didn't know, MAG was considered an alternative after Excalibur nerf, however the team composition was a lot more complicated and not everyone had frames to easily buff mag to spam 4 to clear Draco, but it was still viable because her 4 is, and still not based on LoS. 

What I'm trying to say is, what you seem to be missing the point of what others are saying as well, no matter how hard you wanna nerf cheese tactics, more cheese tactics will come up and you will for sure I guarantee will complain about those other frames as well. Nerfing does nothing except make players angry and leave, and while you think that's a good thing, it's not. It doesn't solve anything, and DE loses more customers everyday when they're not updating us with new content, because that's whats basically keeping this game alive. Where's the endgame content? Fusion cores and Primed R10 mods? don't kid me, I'm MR 12 and I've basically maxed out all my mods. Being MR 19? where's the fruit of that labor you did? when so many others can just reach up to you by abusing RNG and map tiles.

How many ''active'' Tenno players do you see today playing this game? Most are Afk at Draco as we speak, this is a huge risk for DE to take especially with new updates they're coming up with if they wanna kill off all Macroers and campers today because most of those people I guarantee make up a certain volume and percentage of the player base today.

Take a look at this video if you have time, You've heard of Mogamu yes? Listen to what he has to say about this matter as well, because it's been one heck of a serious issue with this game.

 

*Sigh* It seems my point got lost because I surrounded it with too much rhetoric.

 

Look. the problem is Energy Efficiency, and spammability of moves. There are multiple things that contribute to this problem. Greedy Pull is one of them. Energy Vampire is another. Team Energy Restores are one more. Finally, Fleeting Expertise is also a big contributor.

 

If you fix the Energy Efficiency problem, you don't need to nerf nuking frames. You don't need to nerf cheese. You don't need to nerf any specific mission. The cheese will be limited because frames will have to move around and collect energy from dead enemies. Abilities won't be something you stand in one place and use over and over with no limitations. The main point is that by fixing energy efficiency you fix almost any cheese strategy that can be created, due to energy limiting their spammability.

 

Nerfing Greedy Pull is ONE STEP in the right direction. Once Greedy Pull is removed, players WILL fall back on Energy Vampire and Energy Restores. We both know this. But then, I will also advocate getting THOSE fixed as well. Will it be as easy? Probably not. The main point that I got from the quoted post is "Nerf one thing and players will find the next." I know this already, it's human nature, and I already wrote that in the post you quoted. The idea is that you tackle the problem at it's roots (Energy Efficiency) and fix that rather than treating the symptoms (The Draco node/map, and map clearing frames like Mesa and Saryn).

 

That's what I'm talking about by fixing core gameplay.

 

The Syndicate mission comparison was meant to demonstrate that reward structure that rewards varied mission types is much more fun than one that awards repetitive tasks. It probably wasn't needed for this particular discussion, and I apologize if the main point of the post got lost in that.

 

 

I find you contradicting yourself here while trying to defend long term goals that the game has. Let me just tell you one thing: long term goals mean nothing to me because I don't play the game daily as if it were a life. No game I have played has given me a long term goal that I have not set my self for creative purposes (take minecraft, and I damn well enjoy the ride to the end). In this game, it is a long term goal because it is forced to be long term by daily rep caps and how much you can farm without melting your brain. Don't bother trying to explain a long term goal to a casual player who doesn't see the worth of the goal for the time an work spent in it. I play the game to play, not work, grind and be forced to play button simulations to make the work and grind much less painful. Also, consider what we actually have to do to farm or level gear. Kill a bunch of enemies. That's it. Spy 2.0 was a godsend because it gives you an alternate means to rack up xp, in spy missions and in stealth boosters. But the only other way to get a substantial amount of xp is just to kill a crap ton on enemies. You can't tell me that that gets boring (or rage inducing if you are dealing with cheap, higher level enemies) after an hour; therefore, you can not tell me that the ride towards the end is at all enjoyable. Farming and leveling is work. Sure, there is the idea of payoff when you finally get that 6 forma'd weapon, but the balance of actual worth for the time spent teeters back and forth violently.

 

As to your point that players will always find a way, then Greedy Pull changes would solve nothing, as people would just find new ways to exploit mechanics; then you'll just be wanting "this" ability or augment nerfed because it is being abused. Change why we are abusing said abilities, not what we are abusing.

Well, you're also not the entire playerbase. Some people play very casually. Some people play all day. The idea is that there are goals for everyone, from the more casual to the most hard core.

 

And to answer your question, yes, I DO find killing hordes of enemies fun. Pretty much all the time. Never get's old as long as I vary up what weapons and frame I'm using. That's why I'm still here after two years :). I don't do AFK affinity farms. Those are a snoozefest. I would much rather spend my time in game having fun while leveling weapons equipment than pressing one button over and over. I generally choose any mission with decent spawns to level my stuff that also has something else I need, like prime parts or resources. Whether that be any level of Tower Survival/Interception/Mobile Defense or even something on the starchart like Triton/Kiste/Mimas/Elara I'm always looking to have fun in a variety of places.

 

That's also why I don't have a problem with the game's grindiness. If you're having fun while working towards those goals it doesn't really matter if it is grindy. The problem is that players always want the shortest route to what they desire, even if that route could be considered "work" in a video game. It's kinda sad really. As a game designer to prevent frustrated players like yourself from appearing, they need to make sure the optimal route to content players want is also the most fun and engaging, which is something DE has failed miserably at in the past.

 

All I can say is that if you don't find running, gunning, parkouring, and using abilities fun anymore, why are you even grinding out a new piece of content that will only allow you to do more of the same? That's what I don't get about people that AFK farm. They sit there and "endure" this terrible grind they speak of for a piece of content that only allows them to participate more in what they already called a terrible grind. If shooting enemies is so boring, then why are you forma-ing a weapon 6 times, when all it will do shoot enemies better?

 

Also your final point: "Change why we are abusing said abilities, not what we are abusing." That's asking people to be patient. no matter how much or how little grind you put in, people will always optimize. And if that optimal path is boring, you end up where we are. The problem isn't the length of the grind, it's player engagement during. Fix engagement and the grind doesn't matter. Nerfing Greedy Mag is a step towards fixing engagement, since the augment enables unengaging gameplay.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Ashnal