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Hotfix 16.10.1


DE_Adam
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I only need to read a few of what you're saying and I can already tell you wanna tackle energy efficiency, and nerf mods such as fleeting expertise as well as nerfing Trinity for what? the fourth time?

The core mechanics of the game being broken is not based on energy efficiency, but rather the very spawn system and the drop rates of how it is at the very moment. I thought you caught this concept but unfortunately you think spamming abilities is the main cause of this outstanding grind people do everyday.

If you're gonna nerf abilities and energy efficiency DE's gonna have to buff up rewards because doing mass amount of killings rewards you more than just playing a game and people are in dire need to collect and catch everything in the most efficient matter, not everyone has 4+ hours to play everyday, and the time wall of the game to actually complete all mods, all weapons and all warframes aka total completion of the game is nearly impossible without using cheese tactics.

Hell no to nerfing energy efficiency.

Edited by mikecliffs
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I only need to read a few of what you're saying and I can already tell you wanna tackle energy efficiency, and nerf mods such as fleeting expertise as well as nerfing Trinity for what? the fourth time?.

The core mechanics of the game being broken is not based on energy efficiency, but rather the very spawn system and the drop rates of how it is at the very moment. I thought you caught this concept but unfortunately you think spamming abilities is the main cause of this outstanding grind people do everyday.

If you're gonna nerf abilities and energy efficiency DE's gonna have to buff up rewards because doing mass amount of killings rewards you more than just playing a game and people are in dire need to collect and catch everything in the most efficient matter, not everyone has 4+ hours to play everyday, and the time wall of the game to actually complete all mods, all weapons and all warframes aka total completion of the game is nearly impossible without using cheese tactics.

Hell no to nerfing energy efficiency.

Absolutely true.  Nobody with anything else on their mind would sit through this game for with some sort of interest in gameplay.  The biggest problem right now is that the random drop table is quite frustrating at times (it took me 5 weeks to grind the Miter, and I got 3 parts and the blueprint from my first 4 runs).  The principle of "press 4 to win" boils down to the path of lowest resistance: people are going to try to burn through missions as fast as possible to get as many rolls of the drop table in the shortest amount of time as long as the principle of random drops persists.

Edited by TenguBlade
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hmmmm....

 

why are Sinister Reach and Firestorm not available for the Simulor???

 

would make sense to have them available, right? RIGHT? *hint-hint*

I get the feeling that the Simulor doesn't actually have a fixed range limit, but more of a set flight duration like Gliaves. If that's the case, Sinister Reach wouldn't make any difference, whereas Terminal Velocity and/or Zephyr's Jet Stream would increase its effective range. (I would love to test this, but I don't have the Simulor yet. :V)

 

Firestorm should absolutely be available, though.

Edited by CrogenitorSeims
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I get the feeling that the Simulor doesn't actually have a fixed range limit, but more of a set flight duration like Gliaves. If that's the case, Sinister Reach wouldn't make any difference, whereas Terminal Velocity and/or Zephyr's Jet Stream would increase its effective range. (I would love to test this, but I don't have the Simulor yet. :V)

 

Firestorm should absolutely be available, though.

 

simulacrum test showed: jetstream does indeed increase the range... so, what was the name of the mod again that increases projectile flight speed? *g*

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I only need to read a few of what you're saying and I can already tell you wanna tackle energy efficiency, and nerf mods such as fleeting expertise as well as nerfing Trinity for what? the fourth time?

The core mechanics of the game being broken is not based on energy efficiency, but rather the very spawn system and the drop rates of how it is at the very moment. I thought you caught this concept but unfortunately you think spamming abilities is the main cause of this outstanding grind people do everyday.

If you're gonna nerf abilities and energy efficiency DE's gonna have to buff up rewards because doing mass amount of killings rewards you more than just playing a game and people are in dire need to collect and catch everything in the most efficient matter, not everyone has 4+ hours to play everyday, and the time wall of the game to actually complete all mods, all weapons and all warframes aka total completion of the game is nearly impossible without using cheese tactics.

Hell no to nerfing energy efficiency.

I sure as hell don't play every day. In fact I've taken up to 3 month breaks from the game before. Yet I have everything, and I have never joined a Draco farm squad ever. I've had a few pugs try and camp on me in void survivals, so I do know what it is like.

 

People act as if these things are necessary, because they lack any kind of patience, and rightfully so. Patience isn't something that should be required in large amounts for video games. It should be fun while you're playing. It's a player engagement issue. Gameplay is unengaging, thus players want to 'get it over with' as fast as possible. It would be S#&$ty a time regardless of how much time you spend. If core gameplay is unengaging then it doesn't matter how much or how little you're required to do, you'll still be bored and frustrated.

 

Shortening the grind will change nothing. People will still hate the grind regardless of how short it is. It's much better to make the grind fun than try to band-aid it by making it shorter. The first step to making it fun is taking away the boring strats that everyone feels compelled to play, since they are unable to choose fun over efficiency, that is accomplished by fixing the energy economy and forcing players to mix weapons with well-timed abilities, which is more engaging than using a single ability. 

 

THEN once you've fixed player engagement, you can take a look at rewards and adjust as appropriate.

Edited by Ashnal
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I sure as hell don't play every day. In fact I've taken up to 3 month breaks from the game before. Yet I have everything, and I have never joined a Draco farm squad ever. I've had a few pugs try and camp on me in void survivals, so I do know what it is like.

People act as if these things are necessary, because they lack any kind of patience, and rightfully so. Patience isn't something that should be required in large amounts for video games. It should be fun while you're playing. It's a player engagement issue. Gameplay is unengaging, thus players want to 'get it over with' as fast as possible. It would be S#&$ty a time regardless of how much time you spend. If core gameplay is unengaging then it doesn't matter how much or how little you're required to do, you'll still be bored and frustrated.

Shortening the grind will change nothing. People will still hate the grind regardless of how short it is. It's much better to make the grind fun than try to band-aid it by making it shorter. The first step to making it fun is taking away the boring strats that everyone feels compelled to play, since they are unable to choose fun over efficiency, that is accomplished by fixing the energy economy and forcing players to mix weapons with well-timed abilities, which is more engaging than using a single ability.

THEN once you've fixed player engagement, you can take a look at rewards and adjust as appropriate.

We can agree to disagree, don't try to explain me points about you having and completing the game with fully completed mods, maxed out every single primed mods with no weapons being missed from Baro Ki teer or Events or full arcanes for that matter or even codex's. Because I don't believe you.

I can guarantee you nerfing the energy economy is a horrible step to approach problems with grinding here and for simple reasons following why.

3 Reasons alone and I'm not gonna give you possibles of many more reasons why it would be a bad approach.

1. Taking out fleeting expertise or changing completely how the energy economy works would be a big slap to the community on how the way the game would work and function, making most builds obsolete, giving a huge blanket nerf to Sayrn's miasma along with other warframes like Ember which requires flexibility in energy expense to use other abilities other than 4. (also putting a big punishment on blind rage)

2. Removing most of the main survivability and limiting the use of CC on enemies as enemies continue to bash on us with hard counters, I.E Ancients, Nullifiers, Manic Grineers, NM Nullifier Drones. Were already being punched in the face with these NPCs they're not even engaging.

3.Limiting the use of creativity on warframe's different abilities, and solely and heavily depending on things with weapons, and melee and parkour.

Forcing more set up to be able to anchor the weight of the nerfed energy economy and make builds to adapt to the use of energy being more wildly available I.E Flow, Rage, Vitality.(Also a blanket nerf and a huge hammer on Quick thinking).

4. For the very obvious reason. The Grind will get even worse. <--- Just to point that out because you seem to be having a blind eye towards it where many people would say otherwise.

Edited by mikecliffs
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We can agree to disagree, don't try to explain me points about you having and completing the game with fully completed mods, maxed out every single primed mods with no weapons being missed from Baro Ki teer or Events or full arcanes for that matter or even codex's. Because I don't believe you.

I can guarantee you nerfing the energy economy is a horrible step to approach problems with grinding here and for simple reasons following why.

3 Reasons alone and I'm not gonna give you possibles of many more reasons why it would be a bad approach.

1. Taking out fleeting expertise or changing completely how the energy economy works would be a big slap to the community on how the way the game would work and function, making most builds obsolete, giving a huge blanket nerf to Sayrn's miasma along with other warframes like Ember which requires flexibility in energy expense to use other abilities other than 4. (also putting a big punishment on blind rage)

2. Removing most of the main survivability and limiting the use of CC on enemies as enemies continue to bash on us with hard counters, I.E Ancients, Nullifiers, Manic Grineers, NM Nullifier Drones. Were already being punched in the face with these NPCs they're not even engaging.

3.Limiting the use of creativity on warframe's different abilities, and solely and heavily depending on things with weapons, and melee and parkour.

Forcing more set up to be able to anchor the weight of the nerfed energy economy and make builds to adapt to the use of energy being more wildly available I.E Flow, Rage, Vitality.(Also a blanket nerf and a huge hammer on Quick thinking).

4. For the very obvious reason. The Grind will get even worse. <--- Just to point that out because you seem to be having a blind eye towards it where many people would say otherwise.

First, I never said I maxed out every mod. I said I've completed every piece of content. I meant that I've completed every available mission and obtained every obtainable weapon and warframe, as well as leveled them all. I did miss two events, and I only have one maxed prime mod.

 

1. What you're saying is on the extreme side. For starters, Fleeting Expertise need not be removed. In fact, Fleeting Expertise is mostly fine where it is, IF you were to remove infinite energy sources. The most I could see to Fleeting Expertise is an adjustment from 60% to something like 30% for both bonus and penalty. In line with that, Blind Rage would also have to be adjusted to not give as large of a penalty.

 

2. Removing Greedy Mag/Energy Vampire and limiting Energy Restores will not limit ability use as much as you might think. Enemies drop energy orbs all the time, and with Energy Efficiency mods you can use your 4th ability for only a single energy orb. Considering that most 4th abilities can kill an entire group or enemies on their own which create more orbs (this is what Greedy Pull works off of) you always end up with a net gain of Energy using nuke abilities as long as you kill enough targets every cast.

 

Speaking to this point have you ever done a mission without Greedy Mag or a Trinity? I do survivals all the time without those frames and I still have plenty of energy to use my abilities. I'll sometimes run my Vex Armor build Chroma that only has Streamline and I'll be able to keep both Vex Armor and Elemental Ward up indefinitely from picking up energy orbs as long as the enemies keep spawning. Loki master race would still work as well as always when you stop and consider that you only need one energy orb to disarm an entire room. I runa round with the new Excalibur and his Exalted Blade out constantly, using Radial Blind and Slash Dash often and I don;t have energy problems.

 

The picture I'm painting here is that normal ability use is already pretty damn good with current Efficiency mods. It's the energy supplying frames and gear that take that Efficiency and turn it into camping, since you aren't required to run around to collect energy anymore.

 

3. As stated above, energy orbs still give plenty enough supply for creative use of warframe abilities that aren't camping. It's about striking a balance where you have enough energy to use abilities semi-frequently, but not enough that you can stand there and press the ability button endlessly with no concern for you energy.

 

4. It will take you longer to level up things, that is undeniable. Going from 20 minutes to an hour or two to level equipment really isn't that bad.  BUT it will be more engaging while doing so. You'll be engaged, running around, using abilities and collecting orbs to replenish energy. You know, actually playing the game instead of AFK watching a movie.

 

Once update 17 hits the situation will get a little better, with Parkour 2.0 providing more engaging navigation. DE already knows what I'm talking about and are already working on a number of ways to fix player engagement.

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cause 200% when fully maxed will bring most weapons into the red crit zone.. witch i dont think they want... the mod is fine stop complaining

 

How?

The highest base critical chance among secondary weapons is 25 percent is the AkMagnus.

With 200% you will onle get 75% percent. Even with the corrupted mod you won't get to 100% percent.

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The game probably dosen't enjoy you either.

If it being gone will make you go away too, then as sad as it'll be for all parties involved, it'll probably be for the best.

 

Coptering, by all sane definitions, is an exploit of the physics engine, you are not meant to play that way, and it's GOOD that it's finally gone.

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The undeniable truth is: There will always be ways to abuse the gamemechanics.

With a game wich so much variety like warframe, there are so many ways to play the game, so many combinations.

The problem is, once you nerf one ability or how energy works, you may destroy a specific way to grind, to abuse or to lazy missions.

But hand in hand you make the normal play much harder much less fun too. And as always the grinder will find another way to grind, thats what he does. Find the most efficient way to get what he wants.

But I honestly dont see the problem in people grinding. If you want something very hard and you want to sacrifice your time with boring tactics, be my guest an do it. Broken game mechanics like eGate where it didnt get any more difficult and there was an infinite stream of enemies. Thats good that they fixed that. But just playing maps that spawn many enemies which give much loot or affinity is no broken game mechanics.

You could lower the spawn rate of such enemies, but then again missions get so boring for normal gameplay. I remember mobile defence being a good way to level up stuff, because of the high spawn rate of enemies. They somehow adjusted that and now T1-4 MD is just so boring. No enemies at all.

 

I think its sad that the only thing they do is to try to remove the possibility to grind in an efficient way, introduce more grindy equipment like primed mods or prime parts which take ages to get and just destroy the normal fun way to play the game.

 

If you reduce the possibility for high efficiency builds you wont be able to play harder missions without optimized team setups and weapons anymore, because there wont be any margin. Im a space ninja I want to do awesome stuff without always thinking about: I need this warframe for that, this weapon to stay alive and need to buy/build items so I can play the game in a normal fashion.

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The game probably dosen't enjoy you either.

If it being gone will make you go away too, then as sad as it'll be for all parties involved, it'll probably be for the best.

 

Coptering, by all sane definitions, is an exploit of the physics engine, you are not meant to play that way, and it's GOOD that it's finally gone.

 

 

Since you can't really use melee for damage after a certain level, I select my melee by its mobility and its range.

With its range and and slide/copter range the orthos prime is my first choice on melee weapons.

For me sliding through a large group of enemies is the only feasible way to use melee.

Channeling is no option since it is too expensive for what it does.

Stances are no option for me, because once I meet this pesky bombard Im dead if im stuck in melee mode and would have to switch to my primary, so quick melee. The introduction of quick fire in melee mode would solve the issues with cameras and the disruption fields as well.

If you take away the possibility to copter, in my eyes melee will be dead.

You say abuse broken game mechanics: I say we are frigging space ninjas, i want to be able to do stuff which I can't do in real life.

Whats the problem of us beeing able to move around fast. This is no gamebreaker, it doesnt make you

invulnerable or kill everything, its just fun. Walking around or running is so booooring and you get insta

killed by hitscan weapons or strong enemies. Have you ever tried to just walk up onto a high level heavy

gunner or bombard? Good Luck.

I want to be able to jump over large gaps in the map, jump up high ledges, slide through large grouups of

enemies. It hurts nobody, it's fast and it's fun.

Pls dont take away all the fun stuff about this game.

This is what makes me love this game: Use awesome abilities (often), move around insanely fast. As long as I can I use melee because I think its just more fun than normal shooting.

Pls correct me if I understood the whole issue wrongly.

 

PS: All squishy warframes would have a real problem if you couldnt hit and run with coptering anymore.

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When are you going to make a linux suport for warframe? This would very nice alot of people would love to be able to play on linux. Check out the play warframe on linux forum.

Thank you this is my fav game awesome keep up the good work.

drenamx23

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@DE Why u no fix: No way to get simaris rep since target stopped spawning after SIMULOR release.... we are being DEllorT<

Are you kidding? Grab your synthesis scanner (preferably with infinite scan widget) and go on any Exterminate mission. Do it in full stealth (use Loki for easy mode) and scan everything that moves. I got 19K standing just from one mission

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How?

The highest base critical chance among secondary weapons is 25 percent is the AkMagnus.

With 200% you will onle get 75% percent. Even with the corrupted mod you won't get to 100% percent.

 

I think the way DE looks at it is like this:

 

At 187%, this mod does actually represent a damage increase to a select few pistols over, say, another elemental damage mod. That by DE logic makes it "an upgrade" and "not useless."

 

 - - -

 

Unfortunately, the problem is that the crit pistols in this game are so bad to begin with, even with the damage increase a 187% Primed Pistol Gambit gives, they pretty much still suck anyway. At 220%, the best ones would have actually been skirting the realm of being borderline competitive with the best non-crit pistols, but nope, we get the dud instead.

 

That made the base nerf look pointless and asinine.

 

=S

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I think the way DE looks at it is like this:

 

At 187%, this mod does actually represent a damage increase to a select few pistols over, say, another elemental damage mod. That by DE logic makes it "an upgrade" and "not useless."

 

 - - -

 

Unfortunately, the problem is that the crit pistols in this game are so bad to begin with, even with the damage increase a 187% Primed Pistol Gambit gives, they pretty much still suck anyway. At 220%, the best ones would have actually been skirting the realm of being borderline competitive with the best non-crit pistols, but nope, we get the dud instead.

 

That made the base nerf look pointless and asinine.

 

=S

I think it is idiotic as well. It is a Primed mod which you have to spend tons and tons of cores in to max. Reducing it´s %-gain per lvl is a downgrade and not an upgrade. People farm primed stuff just to get ducats, just to buy themselfs these mods. Everything else primed has the normal % per Level but this has a lower one? why? my Aksomati has 6 forma on it because of this mod. Not only i spend over 2.000.000 credits and over 500 rare cors to max it, i spend 6 forma to max this weapon. When i looked at the Mod, i wasn´t happy because i new the Value (220% at max rank) it should have. DE, implementing Primed Mods is easy, making them Platinum, having them max lvl 10 and its done. Why do you change the Value? I don´t get it...

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