Greedy Pull Change For The Best Or No ?

[gizol333]

You can get T3 keys on Earth.

Wrong ? Earth has only T1 keys.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Wrong ? Earth has only T1 keys.

That's wrong. You can get T3 keys on Lua.

Edited June 27, 2015 by (PS4)DesecratedFlame

[Omnimorph]

There really won't be. Mesa + Limbo doesn't require any more skill.

 

If this keeps happening then maybe the problem is the grind and not the grinding method. [sarcasm] Nah . . . [/sarcasm]

 

Mesa/Limbo must require more skill, otherwise people wouldn't be preferring Gmag/Mesa.

I get your point, but there is no other realistic way of keeping people playing the game other than either grinding or taking the risk of hiring a much bigger development team.  Content is devoured at a rate of knots by players, always, in every multiplayer game, and while it is indeed the best form of ... content ... it's just unrealistic to expect much more than they're actually pumping out.  The grind is the placeholder for them, and it serves that purpose well enough (because of course most people do like grinding, contrary to their whining - again, if it weren't so, games with grinding wouldn't be successful).

 

(Side-note: the thing about grinding is that it's conducive to a trance state, where you forget yourself and become one with your avatar and goof off.  That's a very pleasurable state for many people.  That desideratum clashes with the other "point" of gaming - which is challenge, especially "challenging content".  These are the two main things developers have to steer a compromise course with, because what pleases one crowd is diametrically opposite to what pleases the other crowd.  Although in reality most players like a bit of both, at different times and in different moods).

 

The real root of the problem here is HAVING SYNDICATE MODS BE TRADEABLE.

 

I think it was a failure of courage on DE's part - they thought that nobody would go for Syndicate stuff if the deal wasn't "sweetened" by tradeability.  But it's one of those terrible mistakes DE occasionally makes (like keeping coptering in for so long).  Augments should never have been tradeable, they should never have been available for pl.

 

That way GMag would have been a specialist thing that fewer players used - it would still have value as something that makes grind and farming more efficient, but not a value that overrides the value of everything else, because so easy, and so easily attainable by relatively new players.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Omnimorph

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Mesa/Limbo must require more skill, otherwise people wouldn't be preferring Gmag/Mesa.

It's not more skill intensive. It is just a step below Mesa + G-Mag in terms of efficiency. With G-Mag nerfed, it becomes the new best, and the cycle begins anew.

[Culaio]

 

Wrong ? Earth has only T1 keys.

 

 

checkout void key drop list by mission on warframe wiki and you will see that lua has every TI-III key

Edited June 27, 2015 by Culaio

[Omnimorph]

It's not more skill intensive. It is just a step below Mesa + G-Mag in terms of efficiency. With G-Mag nerfed, it becomes the new best, and the cycle begins anew.

 

It is more skill intensive - Limbo is skill intensive, obviously so, which is why he's not so popular.  Of course you'd see some use of the combo, but it wouldn't be overwhelming like the GMag/Mesa combo is, and there would be room for others and for more experiment.

 

Again, it's the ease of use for newbies that's the problem, not the sheer possibility of combos that ease farming, even if it's a moving target.  The latter isn't a problem, the devs expect it (otherwise they wouldn't have the possibility of such combos at all); the former is the problem. 

 

The devs simply miscalculated - not on GP per se, but on the tradeability of syndicate mods.

 

The problem is that getting Mag is easy, and getting GP is too easy, for relatively new players (they can just buy it with plat).

Edited June 27, 2015 by Omnimorph

[gizol333]

That's wrong. You can get T3 keys on Lua.

If you say so , but it still does not change the fact that theoretically Triton is a better place for T3 keys because it has fewer things.

 

Anyway, we should end the conversation about keys. This is not a topic about keys.

[Culaio]

Mesa/Limbo must require more skill, otherwise people wouldn't be preferring Gmag/Mesa.

I get your point, but there is no other realistic way of keeping people playing the game other than either grinding or taking the risk of hiring a much bigger development team.  Content is devoured at a rate of knots by players, always, in every multiplayer game, and while it is indeed the best form of ... content ... it's just unrealistic to expect much more than they're actually pumping out.  The grind is the placeholder for them, and it serves that purpose well enough (because of course most people do like grinding, contrary to their whining - again, if it weren't so, games with grinding wouldn't be successful).

 

(Side-note: the thing about grinding is that it's conducive to a trance state, where you forget yourself and become one with your avatar and goof off.  That's a very pleasurable state for many people.  That desideratum clashes with the other "point" of gaming - which is challenge, especially "challenging content".  These are the two main things developers have to steer a compromise course with, because what pleases one crowd is diametrically opposite to what pleases the other crowd.  Although in reality most players like a bit of both, at different times and in different moods).

 

The real root of the problem here is HAVING SYNDICATE MODS BE TRADEABLE.

 

I think it was a failure of courage on DE's part - they thought that nobody would go for Syndicate stuff if the deal wasn't "sweetened" by tradeability.  But it's one of those terrible mistakes DE occasionally makes (like keeping coptering in for so long).  Augments should never have been tradeable, they should never have been available for pl.

 

That way GMag would have been a specialist thing that fewer players used - it would still have value as something that makes grind and farming more efficient, but not a value that overrides the value of everything else, because so easy, and so easily attainable by relatively new players.

 

Do people like grinding sligtly yeah but not when there is too much of it, it taken me over 20  20minutes ODS to finally get nova prime part, its more then 6 hours of grinding, by the time I got the part I felt burned out of playing warframe for a while(that grinding almost made me hate warframe game and DE), of course I could spread it over more days but I wanted to play with that frame(wanted to try something new but back then had limited number of slots, I did have normal nova but because of limited supply of reactors I had I didnt want to put reactor on nova if I am going to replace it with nova prime) and currently its my favorite frame but I dont want to grind for something so much ever again.

 

EDIT: They had no choice but to make syndicate mods tradable since how would people get all the syndicate mods and weapons ? its not offline game where you can start game a new and select different syndicate and also syndicates need rare parts and potato's to unlock high tier stuff  people would be extremly uhappy if they had to sacrifice so many potato's to get stuff they want. 

Edited June 27, 2015 by Culaio

[HackShield]

im in for a change too BUT dont rush it we allready have so much useless augments most ppl get only for collecting so pls fixed and dont beak it

 

we got so many broke down stuff since dmg 2.0 came that you should really consider to think twice what you change at the augment

 

my 2 cents let the loot that get pulled or how far towards you with strength just to troll with blind rage :D

Edited June 27, 2015 by HackShield

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

If you say so , but it still does not change the fact that theoretically Triton is a better place for T3 keys because it has fewer things.

 

Anyway, we should end the conversation about keys. This is not a topic about keys.

I do, and they do. It's where I got my T3S key that got me Nova Prime.

 

Do people like grinding sligtly yeah but not when there is too much of it, it taken me over 20  20minutes ODS to finally get nova prime part, its more then 6 hours of grinding, by the time I got the part I felt burned out of playing warframe for a while(that grinding almost made me hate warframe game and DE), of course I could spread it over more days but I wanted to play with that frame(wanted to try something new but back then had limited number of slots, I did have normal nova but because of limited supply of reactors I had I didnt want to put reactor on nova if I am going to replace it with nova prime) and currently its my favorite frame but I dont want to grind for something so much ever again

This.

[Culaio]

This.

 

Well either I would get new frame or I would abandon warframe game and grinding for that part almost made me abandon warframe either way.

 

now I really want loki prime but I refuse to spend so much time getting it. and it costs too much for me to get it for plat so right now grinding is really getting in the way of my enjoyment.

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

Well either I would get new frame or I would abandon warframe game and grinding for that part almost made me abandon warframe either way.

 

now I really want loki prime but I refuse to spend so much time getting it. and it costs too much for me to get it for plat so right now grinding is really getting in the way of my enjoyment.

I know that feel.  I stopped playing Warframe for several months after going through the same thing with the Paris Prime.

[Omnimorph]

 

EDIT: They had no choice but to make syndicate mods tradable since how would people get all the syndicate mods and weapons ? its not offline game where you can start game a new and select different syndicate and also syndicates need rare parts and potato's to unlock high tier stuff  people would be extremly uhappy if they had to sacrifice so many potato's to get stuff they want. 

 

The point of syndicates should have been a choice point for costs and benefits - one case where you can't catch em all and you really have to choose to forego something to get something.

 

But DE caved (just like they caved with keeping coptering in).  And they're suffering a potentially worse problem because of it.

 

I think they're a brilliant development team on the whole, but sometimes I think they make their biggest mistakes by being a bit too close to the community.  The lurv is a hard thing to let go of.  But as coptering shows, the longer you leave it, the bigger the problem becomes (because people get used to it).

[(PSN)DesecratedFlame]

The point of syndicates should have been a choice point for costs and benefits - one case where you can't catch em all and you really have to choose to forego something to get something.

 

But DE caved (just like they caved with keeping coptering in).  And they're suffering a potentially worse problem because of it.

 

I think they're a brilliant development team on the whole, but sometimes I think they make their biggest mistakes by being a bit too close to the community.  The lurv is a hard thing to let go of.  But as coptering shows, the longer you leave it, the bigger the problem becomes (because people get used to it).

Leaving it was not the problem. Removing it is.

[Mathemagics]

plis nerf mesa next

[gizol333]

I do, and they do. It's where I got my T3S key that got me Nova Prime.

 

Relax, it's not like that I did not believe in what you wrote . Am I not allowed to believe what someone says ? Have a little faith in humanity.

[Culaio]

The point of syndicates should have been a choice point for costs and benefits - one case where you can't catch em all and you really have to choose to forego something to get something.

 

But DE caved (just like they caved with keeping coptering in).  And they're suffering a potentially worse problem because of it.

 

I think they're a brilliant development team on the whole, but sometimes I think they make their biggest mistakes by being a bit too close to the community.  The lurv is a hard thing to let go of.  But as coptering shows, the longer you leave it, the bigger the problem becomes (because people get used to it).

 

The thing is that some of weapons are very bad without augment mods and same for warframes, weapons like skana or burston prime, so are you fine with some weapons being unusable to some people ?

 

Also warframe isnt like other mmo's where you can have multiple characters per account or being able to delete your character, you know how "happy" would be people  if they choosen wrong syndicate and only way to change syndicate would be to create new game account and lose all the money they put in game including  founders stuff, and unique prime access accesories >_> , and it makes sense people could make wrong choice since new augments are continously added to game some better then others 

[(PSN)iPoisonedFlint]

Need to nerf Mesa not Gmag

[LascarCapable]

I see a lot of people are suggesting to nerf Mesa's 4th power instead of nerfing Greedy Pull. Actually, I think that it's not a nerf that peacemaker needs, but a plain and simple Rework.

 

How about reworking it like Excal's Exalted Blade, but using regulator pistols instead ? It could be a nice concept.

[Gerver]

WHATS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE???

DE Already nerfed:

Credits for void missions, rare mods drop, rare resources drop, Triton fusion cores drop, they nerfed Xini and Kappa.

You want to change GPull and Mesa. For what? To kill another way to farm? Whats wrong with fast farm?

Im using 5-6 formas on weapons I like. And why should i level this weapons whole day just because formas system is stuoid?

Or why should I play whole day with weapons i hate (like burston or bronko) if i need them only for rank points?

If you want to spend 3 hours killing Bombards with your "new lvl 0 Boar or Glaive" on Apollodrus just to level it - do italone, dont force others waste their time.

[xZenkazux]

I personally feel like they should look at the tilesets. Nerfing warframe powers does nothing. If Mesa were nerfed, someone like Sayrn would replace her. If Gmag was nerfed, ev trinity or limbo would take her place. People that want to find the most efficient method to farming always will find a way. Punishing warframes for being involved does nothing and is a pretty poor solution imo. 

[Culaio]

I see a lot of people are suggesting to nerf Mesa's 4th power instead of nerfing Greedy Pull. Actually, I think that it's not a nerf that peacemaker needs, but a plain and simple Rework.

 

How about reworking it like Excal's Exalted Blade, but using regulator pistols instead ? It could be a nice concept.

 

Personally I dont want it to become like exalted blade, I think ults should be unique to each frame, also such change would destroy its "gunslinger" feeling that mesa has and it would be no different then using any of dual guns in warframe, only way for such change to keep gunslinger feeling if players posesed ability to slow down time real life(which of course is impossible XD) to be able to target enemies as fast as mesa currently or make so every time mesa uses ult time slows down in game of course its impossible without slowing down all the players, can you imagine how pissed off would be players every time mesa uses ult XD.

 

I think that only realistic way to rework mesa without changing the "gunslinger" feeling would for ult work as aim assist(game does most of the targeting but you must finish the targeting) or you must press some kind of button sequence everytime mesa ult is used.

[gizol333]

I see a lot of people are suggesting to nerf Mesa's 4th power instead of nerfing Greedy Pull. Actually, I think that it's not a nerf that peacemaker needs, but a plain and simple Rework.

 

How about reworking it like Excal's Exalted Blade, but using regulator pistols instead ? It could be a nice concept.

I agree

 

Also they should change the overall reward system, so we players don't have to Farm that much. 4-5 runs are ok, but 30-40 and still nothing ? There is something wrong here...

[Omnimorph]

Leaving it was not the problem. Removing it is.

 

No, leaving coptering in was possibly the worst decision they've made, because it alienates newbies unless they have a particularly strong commitment to one aspect or another of the game early on (e.g. like I did with the art design) that makes one persevere through feeling like an idiot being left behind when one is still learning the maps and trying to get a hang of the game, and one doesn't know about this method of movement unless someone mentions it, or unless one investigates.

 

Absolutely absurd.  If they thought, well maybe the popularity of it is evidence that people want to move faster, they should have instantly incorporated faster movement into a method that's available and flagged for the new player from the get-go.  It could even have been something you have to develop some skill to use, so teams would still be strung out a bit, but at least it would keep PUGs tethered more closely together and new players would have a chance to catch up - you wouldn't have that extremely off-putting situation right at the beginning.

 

Of course it's a problem now to take it out, because everyone's used to it.  That's precisely why it was stupid to leave it in in the first place.  It should have been removed early when doing so would have been relatively painless.

 

Similar situation here: they should have stuck to their guns of having syndicates be a difficult commitment you have to think hard about, with no tradeable items (well, maybe the weapon mods as a small sweetener, but certainly not the augments).

 

But they caved to pressure, same as with coptering.  But by doing so they've gotten themselves into a bigger and more dangerous mess, just like with coptering.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Omnimorph

[S.T.M.P.D]

Leaving it was not the problem. Removing it is.

Really?

Really?

Really? The move that makes parkour worthless and trivializes 95% of melee because people think that melee should only be used for movement, the move that lets you speed through tilesets at hypersonic speeds that aren't properly integrated with the gameplay, the move that trivializes any attempt at parkour, the move that you HAVE to do in order to get anywhere in this game, and you're saying something shouldn't be done about it?