Why It's Time To Reevaluate Playing This Game.

[(XBOX)ShapelessHorr0r]

Right now you are assuming someone gets the best weapon and the levels nothing else, and you are also assuming that they go to draco immediately. I've been power leveling the past couple of days, leveling things like the prova, plasma sword (.666 attack speed wtf...) and yeah, I'm grinding. You are saying that some how people will grind more to get to the higher levels.

1) until you acquire all the mods necessary simply getting to draco is a daunting prospect. People don't do 90% of the missions on the star map, which means it will take you quite some time to get there. During this time is when we can level up the, for lack of a better term, trash weapons like the plasma sword.

2) yes, people will absolutely flock towards the best weapon or two in each mastery catagory, thats natural. Thats nothing new, people already do it. Trust me, if you have the dread you are not about to start using the braton in content thats difficult for you.

3) You and I are both beyond MR 8, which proves that people already DO grind past MR 8 when they have the best weapon. Heck I'm about to hit MR 15, I think you are MR 14 which is no inconsequential amount of "extra" content leveled, and I'm going to take a guess here and say you did not play spy missions to rank those weapons up.

4) I think I understand a bit of your grind concern now. You are commenting that there will be a new "required" amount of grind to get the top tier stuff. I agree, the point is that instead of it being a chore to rank up drastically underpowered weapons when they the Boltor Prime early, since the weapons will now be roughly "the best they can get" it won't be a chore and will become a far more enjoyable activity.

4a) Additionally I reject the notion that noobs will be relegated to the tissue shooters. For example the Pyrana is locked until you hit MR 6 I believe, yet it is a completely viable weapon to take well into the star chart and the T1 Void. Is it the melt cannon that a gammacor or marelock is? no. Will noobs have more of a difficult time with it? absolutely, and they should. Noobs shouldn't be unstoppable gods of death like those who have bothered to rank up an endless sea of weapons. Allowing rookies to have early access to top tier weapons reduces the enjoyability of content. Part of the reason why the tactical alerts that limited conclave is that it allowed some of Warframes AI to actually show itself besides each mob lasting maybe 3 seconds upon encountering a player. I can quite honestly tell you that I have never ONCE used an ammo supply gear, or gear in general besides the scanner. Thats because my weapon outshined the content I was playing at (I got an early dread) which let me wreck everything.

5) on the issue of me poking a hole in your jupiter oxium example/theory. Yes I was only 3 away from the cap, that was on purpose to show that what you saw as a very strict limit allowed for a near god mode victory (I took no health damage). So while it did not inhibit my ability to farm, it did prevent me from coptering, and if i had gone down, from shooting. Now imagine we had lowered the cap more. Maybe I would have had to drop some of my corrupted mods, or pick a different primary, now I would still be very powerful, but I wouldn't simply be carrying my entire squad to victory. Each mission should provide some challenge, you shouldn't be able to stand stationary and fire at everything like a turret. Yes I'm sure you enjoy that is incredibly easy to farm everything while you are nigh invincible, but quite honestly you don't need to. Nobody I know on warframe has a lower the 80% completion rate, and alot of the failures are from leaving, not mission failure. Ill get a count for you how many missions I've actually failed, and it will be tiny.

In summery, your argument basically says that mastery locking would increase required grind. I agree, but its grind that will happen sooner or later, and honestly your draco concerns are overblown considering they have to GET to draco first, and since they can't have the top tier they will have to actually take their time (part of me wants to say "clear a planet before you go onto the next, but thats a different discussion). Your conclave capping argument has basically descended into "But I want to feel like an unstoppable god of destruction." Thats great, but you truly don't need to be one in order to farm properly, and even with reasonable conclave caps you can still be a wrecking ball. The issue with this line of thought is that being the "juggernaut" on jupiter means that you become the "tissue shooter" in T4S after minute 30-40. Yes people succeed there, and past that point, but not that often with people in recruiting, and honestly, you should be able to be more consistent with victory there. whats the point of having rotations when you never get to see a second B or C rotation, let alone a third.

TLDR- Mastery locking only changes when the inevitable grind happens, conclave capping just makes you a demi-god instead of a god.

-edit, accidently submitted early--

1) Draco-like farming... Earth is a viable farming location

2) Then you agree that experimentation won't actually happen. The best weapon will be flocked towards every few mastery levels, and then every other weapon will turn into "mastery trash" whose only purpose is to get you to the next good weapon.

3) Obviously, how can you expect the rest of Warframe's community to do it as well?

4) First off, you yourself agree that people will flock towards the better weapons in each mastery. Do you realize what that means? It means that nothing will change because there will be a Boltor-like weapon in each mastery. Second, because you know what fun is for everyone. You yourself agree that there will be more grind. How and when has grind ever been fun for anyone? Especially this community? Lastly, noobs aren't gods of death and can't compare to you or me or any other player who has put time into the game. Why? Because of a lack of knowledge. Because of a lack of mods. Because of a lack a flexibility (Warframes and Warframe builds are more important than weapons). The only way a noob could get both the mods and the frames to justify taking him/her into high void is through putting money into the game, which is supposed to skip the grind. The Boltor, in a context-less void, can be viewed as a problem if noobs get it, but the fact of the matter is that there is context.

5) No, the point to progression is to feel more powerful. To get owned and them come back and own them. No, some missions should be easy for endgame players. Otherwise, you remove one if the major reasons to actually improve in this game. Who else remembers Oblivion scaling?

Edited July 6, 2015 by (XB1)ShapelessHorr0r

[TheGunSlanger]

I'm not sure if anyone's mentioned this, but it seems like it needs a mention. The trade system is an absolute joke. It's the bare minimum they could possibly do and it's just an annoyance to use. You want to sell something? You want to buy something? Well, you can't actual play the game while doing it. It reminds me of RS before it had GE, except you can't trade where ever you want.

 

Relays though? A place where numerous players could meet together? Definitely don't let trades happen there. Don't even let people look at their inventories.

You realise they intend to add trading to relays, correct?

[ProfessorZero]

1) Draco-like farming... Earth is a viable farming location

2) Then you agree that experimentation won't actually happen. The best weapon will be flocked towards every few mastery levels, and then every other weapon will turn into "mastery trash" whose only purpose is to get you to the next good weapon.

3) Obviously, how can you expect the rest of Warframe's community to do it as well?

4) First off, you yourself agree that people will flock towards the better weapons in each mastery. Do you realize what that means? It means that nothing will change because there will be a Boltor-like weapon in each mastery. Second, because you know what fun is for everyone. You yourself agree that there will be more grind. How and when has grind ever been fun for anyone? Especially this community? Lastly, noobs aren't gods of death and can't compare to you or me or any other player who has put time into the game. Why? Because of a lack of knowledge. Because of a lack of mods. Because of a lack a flexibility (Warframes and Warframe builds are more important than weapons). The only way a noob could get both the mods and the frames to justify taking him/her into high void is through putting money into the game, which is supposed to skip the grind. The Boltor, in a context-less void, can be viewed as a problem if noobs get it, but the fact of the matter is that there is context.

5) No, the point to progression is to feel more powerful. To get owned and them come back and own them. No, some missions should be easy for endgame players. Otherwise, you remove one if the major reasons to actually improve in this game. Who else remembers Oblivion scaling?

Horror this is the last time I'm going to respond to you just ignore what I say in order to fit me into your argument. While I understand that its a powerful debate technique, you can't force it where it doesn't apply. There has basically been nothing in any of my posts which supports your arguments in the manner or the degree to which you claim. You can't quote me on "yes it will increase grind" when you refuse to quote the earlier version of that statement "It will increase necessary grind" or leave off the end which states that "its grind that would happen anyways." Both dispute your point that it would flat out raise the amount of grind people do in this game. which is simply false.

 

Such a statement is clearly false because of the amount of people above MR 8, the point where no content in this game is locked from you. If people of higher MR's were a rarity, you might have had something to argue there, but they aren't a rarity. Now while I can't speak to the quantities on the XB1 version of the game, it has also been out for far less time then the PS4 and PC versions. The PC version has a vast amount of higher than MR 8 players, enough that it is not an infrequent thing to see someone with MR 19, 18, or 17. So while I can understand your concerns if maybe there hasn't been enough time to generate the player base of higher MRs on the XB1, I assure you that based on the PC and PS4, it is coming. To get back on point, the amount of grinding it takes to get to MR 14 is constant, if you see someone with MR 14, they have grinded whatever amount of items is needed to get to MR 14, no less. The only thing that increases the amount of grinding is new frames, new weapons, and new sentinels/arch-wings/etc. 

 

-----and I'm going to separate this so I can make it perfectly clear---

Preventing people from getting the new top tier weapon (the BFG), until MR 12 would only increase the grinding needed to get the BFG it would NOT, and I repeat, NOT, increase the grind that occurs in warframe.

---------------------------------------------------

 

Yes a few people would burn through leveling as fast as possible in order to get it, but most would do what everyone does. Realize that getting to MR 12 is a fuckton of work, take it at their own pace, use the weapons available until they are close, and maybe then kick it into high gear for that final push. To get to MR8 is only 32% of work it takes to get to MR 14 (source: warframe wiki) and only 17% to get to MR 19 (aka total current game completion). There is literally no reason why they, when they haven't completed even a fifth of the game available (and 7% of the game when it finally finishes) that they should have access to the best guns. Let them have all the frames, I don't care (it would take 27 frames to get to MR 8 without ranking up a single gun, so its completely obtainable), but the strongest hardest hitting stuff should not be obtainable at such a novice level.

 

And on to your point about "the best gun in each mastery ranking is bad". Let me introduce you to a game called cs;go, you may have heard of it. There is a weapon there, called the AWP, which is a one shot kill sniper rifle. Its pretty much the best sniper in the game, and conditionally the best gun. People flock to it, of course they do, its natural. But its not like nobody uses different weapons, people use rifles and smgs, and even pistols. Now imagine that the guns in csgo are one group of mastery weapons. Yes, more people will use the awp, and avoid the crappier weapons likes the piton, its inevitable. But since the weapons are all relatively balanced to each other, you can still use the other weapons, and people do. What warframe currently has is a system that lets you get the bypass the AWP and get the Apache Attack Helicopter before you've even really played around with any of the guns. It then becomes a chore to go back and rank those up, which leads to the dracos, because anything else is just a boring monotony that never ends.

 

I have the best melee weapons, some of the best sidearms, and 4 of the top 5 primaries. Leveling up the 35 damage, .666 attack speed plasma sword was mind numbing. There is nothing that weapon is, that another weapon doesn't outclass simply by existing, so I went to draco, put on volt to fix the swing speed, and still did no damage to any of the content that is considered "my level". I even went back once I maxed it just to see if there was any real difference, and there was no huge improvement. When I have the best I use the best, I use the best on any content I don't want to be bothered doing again, like alerts or tactical missions. Its natural, its human, and I don't spite you for doing so. But goddamn man, now that I have the best, it pains me to do the worst, when really, I should have been forced to use the worst, when I was WAS the worst.

 

Little addon to mastery trash, I have no pretensions that once someone ranks up, most of the old stuff will be left behind sans forma'd gear, but at least they would rank it up when it was relevent to them. The plasma sword is completely viable on earth or venus, elsewhere? its useless. Much like noobs who don't have the mods like you point out. Yet they can still be carried through the void and obtain the top tier weapons, its simple, "just stay close and only use radial blind" and bam, a more than useless addition that can obtain the top stuff. Its not that I have a problem with noobs in the void, if you want to do it for S#&$s and gigs, go ahead. I have a problem with a MR3-just-got-his-third-warframe-but-has-a-boltor-Prime McGee, with the exception of prime access, thats what you pay the big bucks for in this case. If you are willing to drop 100+ to get your boltor prime directly from DE, who am I to stop you?

 

Finally, your 5th point. If you think progression making you feel powerful translate to "feeling immortal" then I don't know what to say to you. A guy with a rank 30 braton, no catalyst goes to apollodurus, I show up with my forma'd, catalyst'd SomaP and deal not a multiple of 10's, 100's but 1000's or 10,000's of his damage in DPS. There's no point, there's literally no point for me being that overwhelmingly more powerful for such low level content. If I go to jupiter and I stand still for 5 seconds in a crowd of 20 corpus, I should take some damage, not be able to ignore it with iron skin and a little of my shields. You are wildly mistaken if you believe I want to remove your feeling of power and accomplishment at lower levels, I don't. What I do want is to remove your feelings of immortality, invulnerability, and simply passive existence in your "farming mission".

 

(lets not forget, your original complaint was that my conclave lock of 700 (the one I listed) would make it too hard to farm, I disproved this and proved it was still a very liberal number that might be lowered to get what I'm going for. Basically, don't worry about feeling powerful, right now you're still a god amongst mere mortals)

I promised you my stats, and here some of them are: 87% mission completion, 7% mission quit, 4% mission failure. No before you ask "how many of those mission quit are failed missions?" I remind you that you still get affinity from a failed mission, just not as much, considering my primary concern is affinity at this point, those mission quit reflect times I've left because of IRL events and what not over the 2(?) years I've played.

 

Additionally I gathered some info on my friendslist for you; average completion rate was 88%, average quit rate was 6%, and average fail rate was 6%. Lowest completion rate was 81, Highest was 94. Lowest quit rate was 2%, Highest was 10% (my own brother, the shame), Lowest quit rate was 4% (many people had), Highest was 11%.

 

An average failure rate of 6% is amazingly low. That means one out of every 20 missions you do (roughly) will end in failure, farming can't be an issue based on failure rate with this statistic, which further confirms you are plenty powerful (or overpowered).

 

[ProfessorZero]

Man, old times. You know what you leave, not what you'll get... In this case some old things weren't so bad in retrospect... If only we had known then.

I actually miss the old toxic ancients. No BS auras, just stay the Hek out of their "hair" or else...

 

When I compare this game to Dynasty Warriors, I'm talking about the "structure". Lots of weak enemies, which you easily dispatch. A few "tougher" enemies here and there, well supposedly tougher, usually they die just as fast...

Of course that's before scaling comes into play. But I'm not talking scaling here, it's another issue entirely. I've said MANY times before, enemy scaling in Warframe is a bit crosseyed. It's the main strucutre of the game I was comparing to DW.

 

 

See, you go too deep in the similarity search here. You compare each and every little detail. I'm talking genre, not intricate design. In essence, before all the shiny covering and scaling come in, It's basically Dynasty Warriors. Throngs of weak enemies you run through easy peasy. A boss here and there (would be cool if they were used more maybe).

 

As for diversity... don't most mooks with guns just run to cover and shoot? Don't those equiped with melee weapons mostly just run straight towards you? The only thing that makes them even remotely dangerous is scaling. They have interesting mechanics, or at least some of them,  like the procs, special attacks, phases (the ones that exclude invulnerability...), weakpoints, all that jazz, I like it. Keeps you more alert.

 

But enemy scaling, more than us, kills all that. We have to use tactics that prevent enemies from doing anything because at some point just them doing that one thing is a guaranted death sentence! It's a broken component that unfortunately is used in conjunction with the RNG based reward system a lot more than all the "leveled" content is. I mean the sweet spot is there! Somewhere in the game! It's just drowning, smothered by the 2 extremes. After that, sure, maybe it's also our fault for abusing these tactics. But why are we using them in the first place? Because we coerced into it. Now we have this bad habit. Like smoking! Well, maybe not like smoking, but you see the idea, right?

 

I understand that it's not easy to make a balanced, challenging AND fun game, all at the same time. But man, why is the core still not "improved"? Why so much horizontal content, and not more vertical? We're swimming in a huge, yet shallow pool! That's what I hoped would change with this "year of quality". I've seen one or two things get better, that's great, kudos devs, but many more, older issues are still present. I know the devs are probably overworked and spread too thin, but isn't that a clear enough signal for them to hit the brakes and regroup? Wouldn't it be better in the long run to focus all efforts on the key components, even if only for a little while?^^'

 

Its a good point to make that this game used to be somewhat similar to ME3 in the fact that while we didn't have a cover system, caution was important. Now even being within 20m of an enemy starts giving you negative effects, which only encourages invulnerability abuse and speed running instead of any form of gun play. I can't remember the last time I zoomed in to specifically shoot one guy in the head, now its just "clear the wave before they target you or else you are dead, unless they slash proc you, in which case you are dead anyways". 

[master_of_destiny]

One last go around at this.

 

 

First, stop putting words into my mouth.  If you'd like to quote my original post, here's a go:

"Warframe is hemorrhaging players.  The only thing that keeps them mildly interested in coming back is events and new content.  Whatever you'd like to say, this is a truth I've observed in game."

 

Note, I don't say a lot.  I never say the game is dying.  I don't say it is going to crap.  I don't imply that my statistically insignificant (though the proof of insignificance is also debatable, given an unknown sample size) experience is 100% accurate and demonstrably true.  I've stated that the game is hemorrhaging players.  I've also stated that because there is no cross-platform play, their discussion is irrelevant.  I don't call them irrelevant, I only cite their inclusion in this discussion is something I cannot deem relevant.  I cannot speak to it, because there's no gauge that we can agree upon.

 

Please stop implying I said anything else.  Either read the comment fully, or suffer being called a moron because your actions (reading without understanding what was written plainly) are those of a mental deficient. 

 

 

 

Anger aside, back to the task at hand.

 

Mastery and affinity gating don't add to the grind.  It takes the grind already there, and makes it feel as though there is a progression.  If you gain enough mastery from using lower level weapons, you can unlock better ones.  Let's split this into its base elements.

 

Warframe is one of two games, based on its MMO roots.  Either it's a game that requires insane amounts of grind to master, or its just difficult enough to allow casual players.

 

Statement two is demonstrably not true.  Warframe has a tutorial not even worth calling competently executed.  The solar system mission structure makes unlocking all of it nearly impossible without groups, and getting groups to do low level content is very difficult.  High level players have no reason to go back, and low level players have to hope an open group forms on the node they want.  On top of all of this, the weapons progression tree is all sorts of crap.  Viewing it for the first time, tell me what weapon is better than another.  Is the Strun better than the Boltor, what about the Lato versus the Magnus, what about etc.....  Tell me, how does a new player figure out what to build?

 

Moving to the alternative conclusion, we see a lot more similarities.  Mastery Rank allows more interactions with the community, and you get that by plowing through guns.  If you were to just do exterminate and capture missions (spy has the silence bonus now, making it easy xp for single players) you could spend months on end leveling weapons that you don't like, just to be able to have one more trade per day.  Top all of this with a heaping helping of bullet sponge enemies, and you've got a lot of frustrating grind. 

 

So we can presumably agree that Warframe is a grind; how do you make a grind fun?  Institute rewards.  Without a single line of extra code, you can make guns feel more rewarding by properly categorizing them.  If I was a casual player, one glance at a MR 7 locked weapon would tell me my version locked to MR 6 would be weaker.  I could master this one, and try half a dozen other guns before I am rewarded for my efforts with a more powerful version of the gun I liked.  Maybe along the way I discovered that shotguns pair well with high accuracy, high damage, low shot speed side arms.  Maybe I even learned to love a bow.  Who knows, exposure to other weapons has broadened my understanding of the game, and I still get the reward of an upgraded version of my faithful old gun.  The grind is the same, I just know I'm working towards something.

 

 

The issue with this is an egalitarian gun system, versus a hierarchy of weapons.  Right now, DE can't decide what to do.  An egalitarian gun system has new weapons released based upon mechanics, but all powered equally.  It'd be hard to do, but it would mean that you would have almost no grind.  Choose the weapon that best fits you, and go.  This is what DE is trying to get to with the constant nerfing.  Needless to say, they're demonstrably crap at doing this.  Admittedly, it is a daunting task.  They are at least nobly failing.

 

What we actually see in Warframe is a hierarchy that is masquerading as a flat system.  The multiple versions of one gun are a dead give-away, but otherwise you can tell with the Prime and upgraded (Vandal, Wraith, etc...) weapons.  Take a fan favorite, add stats, and release it as a new toy.  If you release the new toy as either insanely difficult for a new player to get, or as a timed exclusive, you've unbalanced your weapon equity.

 

 

In short, mastery and affinity gating is an attempt to get DE to either fix balance and remove the hierarchy, or to make the hierarchy a part of the game that rewards the player.  Your assertion that players will grind to get the newest shiny is correct, but that's true largely of those people who will grind everything because a challenge unmet is a slight to them personally.  New players will see that their effort has rewards, and that weapons are relatively better.  That's bringing in new players, and providing a tutorial, and investing them into the game using the tools you already have.  How is that possibly not a win?   

 

 

 

 

To those who think that I care about investing in the game; stop.  Read back over that.  My intention was to say that I believe DE deserves to be paid for good content, and I've demonstrated that I'll do so.  I don't care if you've given them more money, only that people recognize that someone always pays for "free to play."  As someone is paying, there needs to be accountability.  I bow to you blowing more money on the game than I did, but it isn't really relevant to the discussion.

[Nebu1ous]

It seems that DE has just added a simple progress bar for major updates to the front page of Warframe. No explanations of what they're working on anywhere but in devstreams and occasional forum/twitter posts, though.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Nebu1ous

[master_of_destiny]

<QUOTE>

...

@Letter13  - I'll make a prediction now, and I'd like to make a bet with you.  We will get to either 17.0.1 or 17.1.0 within 48 hours of 17 being released (let's not offer semantics on the numbering, as it is out of our hands). There will be a page long+ response on whichever of the above hotfixes appears listing off fixes ranging from minor issues to major game breaking bugs.  Despite all of this, the community in large (50% of the first two response pages) will eat it up and worship DE for releasing more content. 

 

If I'm wrong, I'll start playing again.  If I'm right, this game gets removed from both our HDDs (or SSDs, depending upon system setup) never to be installed again.  Would you be willing to take that bet with me?  This little section of the conversation isn't constructive, but it should highlight why I'm angry.  Thank you for responding, and I look forward to getting a PM from you if you're willing to take my wager.

<QUOTE>

 

 

Looks like I was correct.  The 31st was the day that 17.0.0 came out. Within 48 hours we're up to 17.0.2.  Looks like if that bet was taken we'd never experience any more of Warframe.

 

 

 

<QUOTE>

...

Let's get this back on track DE, and I'll put my money where my mouth is.  I'm betting you still haven't concerned yourself with reading all of this, so I may be talking to an empty room again.  Assuming I'm not, I make you this promise.  If you meet two of the four following criteria in the next month I'll buy the newest prime pack (Ash, Carrier, and Vectis; thank you data miners and your insanely accurate information).  Update 17 releases, and there's no need for two patches within the first week.  You start providing us with more information on your website, beyond what we can buy with real money (as others have cited, this is something you talked about well in advance of my suggestion).  You have the barest minimum respect for your customers and write "I've read this comment, and we're holding you to your promise." in a post on this thread in the next 2 days.  Finally, you talk to the community about Draco and grind prior to implementing changes (and not just hold a straw poll). 

 

I'll place a few wagers now.  Point 1 is moot, as none of your major releases have been stable.  Point 2 was swept under the rug a long time ago, and has likely been shelved without any further concern.  Point 3 is me wanting you to show the slightest modicum of a chance that you are listening.  If it can't be met then I have my answer to whether or not it's worth playing the game.  Hopefully, it can be a bell-weather for other players who have indicated their concerns are being ignored.  Point 4 is not for my benefit.  I've seen plenty of polls from DE, that ask vague questions.  The kind of polls that could be used to justify cloning Hitler so you could kill him again, or solving the world hunger problem as a means to alleviate starvation.  Vague and generic questions can easily be bent and molded to prove whatever you want.  If you ask, point blank, why the community feels they need Draco and how it could be destroyed without hurting the game you'll get plenty of feedback.  Take the best 4-10 of those idea, and make a poll about that.  Once you've had the community ring in, then decide how to proceed.  Customers become more invested in the game, you get less negative feedback, and we feel like investing our money into the game is worth it.

 

 

 

I continue to say goodbye here, but the discussion is more interesting than the game has been in quite some time.  Once it dies out, I'll be leaving.  There is no indication that I'll be called to make good on my promises, though being proven wrong is something I would relish.

<QUOTE>

 

 

Of the four requests, I was 90% correct.

 

1) There have been two patches, with more than a few dozen fixes.  This didn't even take a week.

2) There is...slightly...more information on the website.  The status of releases that are pending QC (only viable for consoles, where update QC matters) has been added.  It's not a full answer to my requests, do you get a generous assessment of a 10% from me.

3) There has been no response from anyone about this thread, or any indication that an ounce of concern has been invested.

4) Another few weeks of developer streams, and weekly gameplay streams, have come and passed with absolutely no interaction with the community.  Being told that something is happening, with very little regard for our input, is unacceptable if I'm expected to pay for an ongoing service.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unfortunately, I have parting thoughts.  On youtube there are two prevailing thoughts relating to Warframe.  There are those who love Warframe, and those who are apathetic (hate is far too strong a word for it).

 

Content creators there are either willing to ignore flaws, and play around issues (a gay guy plays has multiple videos saying something to the affect of "haters gonna hate"), or they have been burned out by the grind and issues of Warframe (Tactical Potato, and Calypsogaming come to mind here).

 

Both camps have their benefits but I have to ask them, "where does your opinion differ?"  The former camp has defined themselves with a game, and seems to not want to admit to any flaws.  They'll overlook substantial issues, and state that they can be avoided by playing the game within a very limited box.  The later camp seems to be more than willing to admit to the good parts of Wraframe, despite not wanting to play it anymore.  It seems like 1000+ hours of grind generally makes people less than receptive to the potential of more grind. 

 

I can see both sides, but there's only one real truth.  DE has had almost a year of my patronage, and it isn't any better than it was the first day I put down money.  Don't get me wrong, there's quite a bit more game than there used to be.  There's multiple new modes of play, better interaction, and the ride itself wasn't bad.  Unfortunately, the game is still all about a grind that just doesn't strike me as fun any more.  As a refresher, the following games released last year:

IL-2 Sturmovik: Battle of Stalingrad October 1 Dragon Age: Inquisition October 7 Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor October 7 Alien: Isolation October 7 NBA 2K15 October 7 Borderlands: The Pre-Sequel October 14 Battlefield Hardline October 21 The Evil Within October 21 Evolve October 21 Assassin's Creed Unity October 28 Costume Quest 2

October 31

 

I honestly can't think of a reason why I can't play any of these games today.  They may have needed patches at launch (Unity, sigh), but they run today.  I can't say the same about Warframe.

 

So it isn't fun, it's composed of grind, communication with customers is less than effective, and the game requires more patching than a new Microsoft OS.  I can't justify spending any more of my time, money, and effort on this game.  Goodbye DE.  Your output, and anything that is an Origin exclusive game, are officially products I will never again touch.  Congratulation on making that short list of failures.