If Greedy Pull Gets Nerfed, We'll Just Use Ev Trin

[motorfirebox]

What it says on the tin. Now, look, I'm not necessarily opposed to changing Greedy Pull to Selfish Pull, if there seems to be some benefit to that. I just don't think it's going to magically fix Draco. We'll just swap GMag for EV Trin, and Mesa will have to turn off Peacemaker for five seconds every two minutes or so. We're already using Frost, so for the most part we won't have to worry about enemies overwhelming us in those five seconds. Trin will hit something with EV, someone will shoot it in the face, and Mesa's energy will go back to full and she'll turn on Peacemaker again.

 

Draco was a thing before Greedy Pull. Nerf Greedy Pull, and we'll just go back to doing it the old way.

 

The only way to 'fix' Draco is to level out the rewards for campable endless missions. Increase the rewards for similar-level non-endless missions, specifically affinity. Maybe you could tinker with the rewards for endless missions, but I don't know how you'd do so—most of the benefit comes from the number of enemies killed, not from the end-of-mission rewards.

 

As long as the total rewards for Draco and similar missions are so much vastly better than any other mission type, players will find a way to efficiently camp those missions. This is not a problem with a certain playstyle, it is a problem with a reward structure that encourages a certain playstyle.

 

And before anyone jumps on me for hating on Draco: I do Draco every day. I don't see a single thing wrong with taking full advantage of the game, so long as it's not exploiting some kind of bug. Draco isn't an exploit because the powers that make Draco possible are being used exactly as they are designed to be used; it just turns out that they're far more effective than DE seemed to plan on them being.

 

That said, I would really vastly prefer to be able to do things other than Draco without having to spend 10x as long for the same rewards. Which is why, as I've said, the issue with Draco is one of reward structure, not power use.

[Kamachi]

What it says on the tin. Now, look, I'm not necessarily opposed to changing Greedy Pull to Selfish Pull, if there seems to be some benefit to that. I just don't think it's going to magically fix Draco. We'll just swap GMag for EV Trin, and Mesa will have to turn off Peacemaker for five seconds every two minutes or so. We're already using Frost, so for the most part we won't have to worry about enemies overwhelming us in those five seconds. Trin will hit something with EV, someone will shoot it in the face, and Mesa's energy will go back to full and she'll turn on Peacemaker again.

 

Draco was a thing before Greedy Pull. Nerf Greedy Pull, and we'll just go back to doing it the old way.

 

The only way to 'fix' Draco is to level out the rewards for campable endless missions. Increase the rewards for similar-level non-endless missions, specifically affinity. Maybe you could tinker with the rewards for endless missions, but I don't know how you'd do so—most of the benefit comes from the number of enemies killed, not from the end-of-mission rewards.

 

As long as the total rewards for Draco and similar missions are so much vastly better than any other mission type, players will find a way to efficiently camp those missions. This is not a problem with a certain playstyle, it is a problem with a reward structure that encourages a certain playstyle.

 

And before anyone jumps on me for hating on Draco: I do Draco every day. I don't see a single thing wrong with taking full advantage of the game, so long as it's not exploiting some kind of bug. Draco isn't an exploit because the powers that make Draco possible are being used exactly as they are designed to be used; it just turns out that they're far more effective than DE seemed to plan on them being.

 

That said, I would really vastly prefer to be able to do things other than Draco without having to spend 10x as long for the same rewards. Which is why, as I've said, the issue with Draco is one of reward structure, not power use.

Completely agree.

What did they think would happen when they released Greedy Pull?

I'm really starting to doubt if they even test these types of things thoroughly before releasing them.

[UndeadGhostWarrior]

That flame title though

Edited June 27, 2015 by UndeadGhostWarrior

[bluntpuffer]

I think this is just a temporary fix.

Most of the existing tiles gonna be removed in the next big update so we probably won't be seeing much left from tiles like draco and such.

[(PSN)OMGITSNUKERXD]

it was not meant to give a shock to the whole community but it just made people lazy and it removes the fun.But with EV Trinity that is not a problem

[Kamachi]

it was not meant to give a shock to the whole community but it just made people lazy and it removes the fun.But with EV Trinity that is not a problem

So Trinity spamming [2] is more fun than Mag spamming [1]?

Enlighten me.

[Ishki88]

How could you nerf this pretty face without considering a re-work

[Paradoxbomb]

Who ever claimed that changing Greedy Pull would be the end all solution?

 

Otherwise I do agree though, while the game should be more rewarding for playing it than powerfarming it, a big part of that is making the actual gameplay worth putting in that effort.

 

How could you nerf this pretty face without considering a re-work

 

Mag is already a pretty solid frame, maybe not the best, but to say she's suddenly "useless" because she can't press the 1 key over and over and fuel a turret is ludicrous.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Paradoxbomb

[Chroia]

Except that (as you note) all channeling abilities already disable energy gain from EV.

Toggling requires sufficient duration on EV for the channeller to notice and react, which reduces EV's efficiency, increases the channerller's downtime and overall increases the group coordination required.

+1 for voice chat, I guess?

 

 

-----

 

 

while the game should be more rewarding for playing it than powerfarming it, a big part of that is making the actual gameplay worth putting in that effort.

And as long as the most efficient (and, in fact only) way to get whatever you're looking for is either speed chainkilling (e.g. Draco, E Gate, et al.) or speedrunning (Capture, Saryn/Ember/etc. Exterm, etc.)...

Edited June 27, 2015 by Chroia

[(XBOX)Brennon Cook]

It fascinates me that DE makes warframes like Mesa if they're against afk farming.

[Tesseract7777]

I don't think they are nerfing it just because of Draco though. I thought they said something about it being used 4x more than any other ability in the game. I think that's the real reason they planning to change it, because of the stunning amount of overuse, not just because of it's effects/Draco. 

[AoiiToori]

The only frames that exist nowadays is Frost, Nekros, Gmag (yes Mag is not a frame, only Gmag exist), and Mesa. Everything is irrelevant.

 

gg meta

[motorfirebox]

 

Who ever claimed that changing Greedy Pull would be the end all solution?

Well, DE is thinking about nerfing GP, fairly specifically as a response to Draco. They see Draco as a problem, and their main response right now is to think about nerfing GP.

 

I don't think they are nerfing it just because of Draco though. I thought they said something about it being used 4x more than any other ability in the game. I think that's the real reason they planning to change it, because of the stunning amount of overuse, not just because of it's effects/Draco. 

Sure, but Draco is kind of a stand-in for camping in general. It's the favorite campsite right now; any "fix" for Draco, unless it's really specific to that particular map and mission, will likely also "fix" other camping strategies.

[-dicht.ThanksFrost-]

THANK YOU. 

 

Maybe the devs should focus more on other important buffs that desperately need attention and make their other non endless gamemodes more appealing rather than nerfing everything.

[MrMalzel]

Who ever claimed that changing Greedy Pull would be the end all solution?

 

Otherwise I do agree though, while the game should be more rewarding for playing it than powerfarming it, a big part of that is making the actual gameplay worth putting in that effort.

 

 

Mag is already a pretty solid frame, maybe not the best, but to say she's suddenly "useless" because she can't press the 1 key over and over and fuel a turret is ludicrous.

Personally I prize her ability to explode shields, but having her greedy mag nerfed is a bit annoying since I use it a lot to help newer players gather materials, it doesn't bore me and I still get to do a bit of fighting here or there while chatting with my buddies.

[Bibliothekar]

In my eyes, the problem isn't just Draco. Greedy Mags* are annoying everywhere, no matter the map. Can be Draco, can be Stephano, can be the Corpus maps.

The easiest way to discourage people from spamming Greedy Pull would be to put a cooldown on the augment (not the ability itself). So you could pull all you want, but loot comes flying only every five seconds or so. This would also make it easier for teammates to pick it up before it zooms past them again ...

 

--

* Meaning Mags who are built all around Greedy Pull, as opposed to the much rarer "Mags with GP" who use their other abilities as well.

[Tesseract7777]

 

 

Well, DE is thinking about nerfing GP, fairly specifically as a response to Draco. They see Draco as a problem, and their main response right now is to think about nerfing GP.

 

Sure, but Draco is kind of a stand-in for camping in general. It's the favorite campsite right now; any "fix" for Draco, unless it's really specific to that particular map and mission, will likely also "fix" other camping strategies.

 

 

Ya see, I got the impression it's not entirely about Draco. Yeah, they don't want people just camping one single map, but Gmag is not relegated to just Draco, and I'm sure that x4 use statistic counts well more than just Draco. I see people demanding Gmag for everything in chat, even where it doesn't make sense. Even when people aren't camping it has made them terribly lazy. I agree this won't fix Draco, but I think they had a lot more in mind than just fixing Draco when they did this. 

 

They like to give reasons for things on the surface that aren't the real reason, it's a typical move. I think more than Draco, this is a backlash to the fact that no one can seem to do anything without a Gmag anymore. And that is kind of silly. I've had people message me when I was hosting T4 Sabotage, and told me "they have Gmag" as if I should choose them for a Sabotage because they have Gmag. That makes no sense. Hell Gmag is about the last frame I want on a T4 Sabotage. 

 

People are overusing her in general. Will it fix Draco? No. But I still think Mag needed this change. Players, especially newer ones, have become way too reliant on her augment. 

Edited June 27, 2015 by Tesseract7777

[wtrmlnjuc]

They're nerfing Greedy Pull because it's used 4x more than any other power in the game. It's not because of Draco, it's because it's horribly unbalanced compared to the rest of the game's powers. Using an EV Trinity would pose little issue since nobody is disrupting the battlefield, and Mesa requires LoS and range anyway. Practically nobody had an issue before GMag was a thing.

[motorfirebox]

Like I said, I'm fine with nerfing Greedy Pull if there's a problem that DE thinks that will solve. But Draco (which is the context in which they brought the proposed GP nerf up) isn't that problem, and by extension other camping issues aren't either.

 

 

 Practically nobody had an issue before GMag was a thing.

 

That's not really true at all. Before Draco, there was Viver. There was some other place in between Viver and Draco, as I recall. Camping as a whole has been a thing for quite a while now, and DE has put in "fixes" for it several times—all of which have resulted in some minor change in the camping strat du jour, rather than a move away from camping.

 

 

Overall, the reason people use GMag is to camp. Camping is the issue, and has been an issue for a while. Changing GMag means we'll just go back to some other camping strat—on Draco and elsewhere.

Edited June 27, 2015 by motorfirebox

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

The only frames that exist nowadays is Frost, Nekros, Gmag (yes Mag is not a frame, only Gmag exist), and Mesa. Everything is irrelevant.

gg meta

People ask for Nekros? I thought Hydroid was the new thing to ask for?

[Paradoxbomb]

That's not really true at all. Before Draco, there was Viver. There was some other place in between Viver and Draco, as I recall.

 

I Think it was E Gate and/or Triton.

[AoiiToori]

People ask for Nekros? I thought Hydroid was the new thing to ask for?

How2hydroid in draco

[Marthrym]

How could you nerf this pretty face without considering a re-work

Oh man, this image really hit home with me. Now I feel even worse than before, and pissed that the devs still refuse to aknowledge that the problem lies within the structure of the reward system, not in that poor girl. Leave her alone Scott!

[Kaotyke]

You forget:

[Ceryk]

Yes, Draco was a thing before G-Mag. But the devs made it sound like making Greedy Pull self only wasn't the only thing they were thinking about to try and deal with the the Lazyframe scourge.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Ceryk