If Greedy Pull Gets Nerfed, We'll Just Use Ev Trin

[akaSM]

How many times have I seen this situation I wonder

 

 

DE finds problem

 

Attempts to fix

 

Breaks one or multiple abilities, weapons, game modes, and gameplay styles in an attempt to solve problem

 

Does nothing to address the underlying issue

 

Problem is not fixed, but is inconvenienced for a short time

 

Problem recovers and goes back to full strength

 

DE re-finds problem...  and the cycle continues

 

 

I hope someday the cycle will end, but I've been waiting for that day for over 2 years. Not holding my breath.

 

I dub thee "The Steve Cycle".

[motorfirebox]

This thread is stupid. "We'll just use ev trin" So what? EV trinity wouldn't be as effective or as efficient as your precious GPull spamming. People probably won't be able to effectively bot with that combination either.

Having used EV Trin in exactly this manner a number of times, I can tell you with fair certainty that it's not enough less effective to matter.

[Naftal]

Having used EV Trin in exactly this manner a number of times, I can tell you with fair certainty that it's not enough less effective to matter.

But you have to actually aim and look for targets unlike greedy pull which anyone with enough brain to push a button can play.

[PingoBlack]

But you have to actually aim and look for targets unlike greedy pull which anyone with enough brain to push a button can play.

 

However, energy regen from single use with properly moded Trinity is just huge compared to puny e-balls.

[motorfirebox]

But you have to actually aim and look for targets unlike greedy pull which anyone with enough brain to push a button can play.

Back when the Draco team was Trin and Excal, I used to set my targeting reticle on the crates at the top of the right-hand steps and then check my email. Just had to hit the button every few seconds, eventually something would wander under the reticle.

 

And even if you actually select targets yourself, it doesn't make camping harder—not enough to matter. You're still pulling down affinity, credits, and components ten times faster than anyplace else. The issue, to me, is that I don't want a choice between doing Draco every day for fifteen minutes, or running other stuff for two hours or more to get the same result. GMag, Trinity, a boatload of pizzas, doesn't matter what the specific loadout is.

[PKommander]

I would really like to know why (more like HOW) do DE employees never consider these threads.

Don't worry guys, you can be sure gmag will be nerfed either way and we will do exactly what OP said to keep exploiting mesa farm build/s, even though DE has threads like this to take ideas from. How logic, isn't it? We explain them what the next exploit will be (because that's LITERALLY what we're doing) and they will ANYWAY proceed as planned to nerf what they wanted and leave the rest untouched allowing us to keep exploiting without any sort of issue.

I really, really wonder how come DE never ever notices these threads.

[Educated_Beast]

I remember the good old days on draco when we saved 1 enemy and picked up the loot with carriers :).

I don't care, I've sold at least 12 of those augment mods and used it very sparingly myself. It's been good to me.

Anyone know the proposed changes?

[Lightsmith]

I don't post often but...

 

Without Greedy Pull you might as well retire the Frame.. it's useless ( DE should really do a re-work of the frame before they make this change)

 

...

 

We simply need more missions that can get good gains in XP to make the grind bearable.

Although you may be exaggerating I do kind of agree. Prior to Greedy Pull I never used Mag, I had just leveled her for MR.

 

That being said, I may still play her if Greedy Pull is changed to Selfish Pull. Its a good way to get items while relying on my guns.

 

Personally having a frame rely on a single skill isn't the best way to keep it alive. If they change it to Selfish Pull they may want to rework it. 2nd Skill isn't that great (imo) Bullet Attractor is not useful very often, like with a Mesa, they die before you can even make use of it. I'm not sure of the Ult, since I have her set to Max Range. Some tweaks to her 2-4 abilities may be needed to keep it evenly used.

[Naftal]

Back when the Draco team was Trin and Excal, I used to set my targeting reticle on the crates at the top of the right-hand steps and then check my email. Just had to hit the button every few seconds, eventually something would wander under the reticle.

 

And even if you actually select targets yourself, it doesn't make camping harder—not enough to matter. You're still pulling down affinity, credits, and components ten times faster than anyplace else. The issue, to me, is that I don't want a choice between doing Draco every day for fifteen minutes, or running other stuff for two hours or more to get the same result. GMag, Trinity, a boatload of pizzas, doesn't matter what the specific loadout is.

Still, in my experience more than half the trinities have problems doing this based on the "don't kill so fast, I can't cast EV" comments.

[EmptyDevil]

Having used EV Trin in exactly this manner a number of times, I can tell you with fair certainty that it's not enough less effective to matter.

 

Doubtful. Trinity will need to cast EV on enemies and the enemies can only be killed when Mesa isn't channeling Peacemaker if she wants energy. You also need to hope Mesa doesn't accidentally blasts the EV target in the face with a Peacemaker shot. So yeah, i would say it is less efficient because you need to stop the flow of the farm to keep Mesa energized with a Trinity. 

[motorfirebox]

Doubtful. Trinity will need to cast EV on enemies and the enemies can only be killed when Mesa isn't channeling Peacemaker if she wants energy. You also need to hope Mesa doesn't accidentally blasts the EV target in the face with a Peacemaker shot. So yeah, i would say it is less efficient because you need to stop the flow of the farm to keep Mesa energized with a Trinity. 

Yes, as I've said, it's less effective. As I've also said, it's not so much less effective that it doesn't work.

[AoiiToori]

But you have to actually aim and look for targets unlike greedy pull which anyone with enough brain to push a button can play.

Why push a button when you can macro, which I'm sure is pretty widespread already. 

[DxAdder]

Although you may be exaggerating I do kind of agree. Prior to Greedy Pull I never used Mag, I had just leveled her for MR.

 

That being said, I may still play her if Greedy Pull is changed to Selfish Pull. Its a good way to get items while relying on my guns.

 

Personally having a frame rely on a single skill isn't the best way to keep it alive. If they change it to Selfish Pull they may want to rework it. 2nd Skill isn't that great (imo) Bullet Attractor is not useful very often, like with a Mesa, they die before you can even make use of it. I'm not sure of the Ult, since I have her set to Max Range. Some tweaks to her 2-4 abilities may be needed to keep it evenly used.

 

Once a frame turns into a one trick pony in a group and that ability gets nerfed it's toast.

 

It would be the same thing if Peacemaker got nerfed Mesa would go the way of the Dodo for groups.

[Tesseract7777]

Once a frame turns into a one trick pony in a group and that ability gets nerfed it's toast.

 

It would be the same thing if Peacemaker got nerfed Mesa would go the way of the Dodo for groups.

 

You must not use Mag? Or if you do you don't use her outside of Gpull meta, or you would know that's a silly thing to say. 

 

Mag. Shield Polarize. Triton. Neptune. Any Corpus Mission really. Good lord people your arguments don't sound very convincing when you say silly things like that. 

[torsoreaper]

Then they will nerf trin. Then they will nerf energy restores, then they will nerf energy orbs and then efficiency. De knows all, hears all, sees all. If players keep doing this to the game then they will nerf it to the ground. Thats not to say they won't rework the XP and loot system for less grind, they have said they will, and they will. We just have to be patient.

 

I'm sure they will fix the grind.  That is why the loot tables in the void keep getting diluted and why I can run a T4D and get 4 forma -.-

 

When you hear them say "we'll fix it" you think they mean less.  When they say "we'll fix it" they mean "we can make the grind worse... some stuff still has a huge 1% drop chance, let's move it to 0.5%".

[torsoreaper]

I would really like to know why (more like HOW) do DE employees never consider these threads.

Don't worry guys, you can be sure gmag will be nerfed either way and we will do exactly what OP said to keep exploiting mesa farm build/s, even though DE has threads like this to take ideas from. How logic, isn't it? We explain them what the next exploit will be (because that's LITERALLY what we're doing) and they will ANYWAY proceed as planned to nerf what they wanted and leave the rest untouched allowing us to keep exploiting without any sort of issue.

I really, really wonder how come DE never ever notices these threads.

 

I think they notice them just fine.  What I've noticed is that a very vocal portion of the playerbase gets out their pitchforks every month or two and gets riled up yelling to nerf XYZ FOTM.  DE finally says "OK, we'll nerf it".  The pitch fork wielding players finally relax until they realize what they were yelling about hasn't actually fixed or changed anything so they get their pitchforks out again and light up the torches and we repeat the cycle.

[-----.__.G.O.D.__.-----]

What if EV get nerfed too.? Huh ever thought about that?

[motorfirebox]

What if EV get nerfed too.? Huh ever thought about that?

Yes, the possibility has been discussed in detail. The strategy would switch to 3 Mesas and a Limbo, or 4 Mesas with ES, or if all else fails 3 Mesas and a Mirage to blind everything once in a while so the Mesas can run out and grab orbs.

[(PSN)inuyasha279]

Some other group will take their place. Gmag gets nerfed, EV Trin steps in. Mesa gets nerfed, Mirage steps in (although she's gonna have to work). Nekros gets nerfed, Hydroid steps in for the loot. Frost gets nerfed, we're all screwed.

Frost actually would be replaced by Limbo.

[Naftal]

Why push a button when you can macro, which I'm sure is pretty widespread already. 

Why play a game when you can watch a movie?

[Lightsmith]

Once a frame turns into a one trick pony in a group and that ability gets nerfed it's toast.

 

It would be the same thing if Peacemaker got nerfed Mesa would go the way of the Dodo for groups.

I completely understand, If Snow Globe got Nerfed Frost would be done, if Desecrate got nerfed it'd be done.

 

The ironic issue is Greedy Pull wasn't there by default, so "Nerf" would be returning Mag to its original state. Overall I think Mag needs a rework, It is running into the issue that Excal had. Excal was weak, then it was buffed then Excal was over used then nerfed and became pointless. Mag was hardly ever used, then Greedy Pull, now its most used, after the nerf it will drop back down to weak again. I do personally think a Selfish Pull would still have value for players as Mag, and I may even still use her a bit, but I'd still rarely use other abilities.

 

I think the issue with Mag (and Mesa) is the other powers are just no good. Mesa's first 2 powers are worthless imo, third isn't bad though. A proper nerf for Mesa would be to have Peacemaker affected by Range mods. Perhaps drop the range a little, (since +mods will boost it) that way it isn't so easy to max.

 

Most frames seem to boil down to 2 powers, rarely more. A few do have a nice variety,

[Shirafunes]

The only frames that exist nowadays is Frost, Nekros, Gmag (yes Mag is not a frame, only Gmag exist), and Mesa. Everything is irrelevant.

 

gg meta

you know there are other ways to play mag, dont just blindly follow the meta.

[Scr4mp]

I don't think they are nerfing it just because of Draco though. I thought they said something about it being used 4x more than any other ability in the game. I think that's the real reason they planning to change it, because of the stunning amount of overuse, not just because of it's effects/Draco. 

The fact that it is used 4 times as often as any other ability is the poorest excuse to nerf it someone could ever pull out of their....

 

It is cheap and the cast speed even without natural talent is pretty high. If the problem would really be that it is used 4 times as often, they would just increase the cast time. People wouldn't even care at all about that change but the "statistics" would be back in line again.

[Tesseract7777]

The fact that it is used 4 times as often as any other ability is the poorest excuse to nerf it someone could ever pull out of their....

 

It is cheap and the cast speed even without natural talent is pretty high. If the problem would really be that it is used 4 times as often, they would just increase the cast time. People wouldn't even care at all about that change but the "statistics" would be back in line again.

 

Well, I'm not saying how I feel about the reasoning of the decision, just that I am pretty sure that is the main reason. Of course they know it won't stop farming/camping/exploiting. I'm just saying I think there is more going on with their decision than trying to stop camp/exploiting. 

 

I think it's more about what their personal idea of balance is. In the dev's mind, if an ability is being used way too much, that's a balance issue because they want to see all the frames and abilities being used more often than that. Is it the best solution? Probably not. Hell, they could just make it line of sight and it that would be more fair. 

 

But the problem really comes down to many of the mechanics they have in place. I can see why they don't want one ability being used 4x as much as any other, it kind of trivializes all the hard work they did on everything else when do no one does anything else, but they pulled it out of Pandora's Box and now they are dealing with the consequences. 

 

Until the game is changed to make people want to just play normally (they fix the reward system), people will find another meta to use instead. 

 

That said though, Mag would still be great even with Gpull gone, and still be demanded for certain popular missions, she just wouldn't be as popular. 

[Scr4mp]

the thing is, in the constellation mag is used atm it makes no difference if pull would be used half as often as other abilites, as often, 4 times as often or 10 times as often. Mag simply has nothing else to do in those missions. Same would happen if you speed up desecrate and put a desecrate necros into those missions. Then you would see desecrate being used 4 times as often as other abilities. I'm simply saying, that the fact that pull is used 4 times as often doesn't represent anything. Not the pobularity of an ability, nothing!

I mean, take mesa as an example. You cast her ability once(!) a wave on draco. That is ONE use in their system. But the ability is up none-stop. And the popularity of Mesas ultimate is higher than mags pull. But their statistics don't show that.

 

I guess, the real reason they want to nerf greedy pull is that it counters the nerf they implemented by limiting the amount of drops being able to lie around on the map at the same time. Because with gmag you are collecting all the stuff constantly while you don't have to run around at all.

And while they don't want to say, "hey guys we want to nerf your mod/resource/credit/xp income" they can pretty easily say, "hey ability XYZ is getting used 4 times more than any other ability, we are going to tone it down/make it less popular to use".