De Why Do You Hide Stance Mods?

[(PSN)B0XMAN517]

This isn't a "I want all the things now" mentality, it's good for things to be rare, but the problem is that some stances aren't just rare they're almost non existent. For example, I've killed a couple hundred thousand grineer (I obviously don't know how many bombards specifically) and I have 1 crimson dervish...that I bought from trade.

 

Then you have recent stances like high noon, four riders, and vermilion storm. Extremely low drop rate from rare enemies (some less rare than others, but none of the enemies spawn consistently). 

 

Then you have stances that are only available as rewards through tactical alerts; if you missed the alert tough luck.

 

This practice baffles me. You spend time and money developing the combos and animations only to hide them behind such ridiculous rng that the majority of your players will never experience what the devs worked to produce. Making the stances practically unobtainable also stops people from using, potato'ing, and polarizing certain weapons (my venka went from a dust collector to my new favorite potato'd and multi forma'd killing machine all because I bought four riders).

 

The tinfoil hat wearing cynic in me thinks it's to do with the free to pay business model; if people are selling them for 200p a piece that plat has to come from somewhere. I hope this isn't the case, but regardless I feel that the spawn chance for enemies needs to be taken into account when figuring the drop chance.

 

TL;DR: Enemy rarity/spawn chance should be taken into account when figuring drop chance and there should be a way to gain stances that were rewarded for a tac alert similarly to the way the Brakk and Detron were reintroduced.

Edited June 28, 2015 by (PS4)B0XMAN517

[TychusMechanicus]

Some stances I believe are intended to be extremely rare so the most dedicated would have them.

 

I think there will be a lot more stances as there are always newer ones in the works so in the end even if you meet other tenno using the same weapon chances are you will still see different fighting styles.

 

Altough Vermillion Storm is still Transmute only as after Tubemen of Regor you will have 0 chance of having it drop since the Manic Bombard is not a regular unit you will see anywhere else.

[AXCrusnik]

Some stances I believe are intended to be extremely rare so the most blessed by RNGesus would have them.

FTFY

[Kthal]

Altough Vermillion Storm is still Transmute only as after Tubemen of Regor you will have 0 chance of having it drop since the Manic Bombard is not a regular unit you will see anywhere else.

 

Vermilion Storm is no longer in the Transmutation tables.

 

 

Tempo Royal and Astral Twilight will be making a return via the Bursas, but they will have the same drop rate as Four Riders... Which is borderline unobtainable.

[Drazhar14]

The future - the place where the only way to learn new combat moves is to install a chip into your brain. 

[elele]

The tinfoil hat wearing cynic in me thinks it's to do with the free to pay business model; 

 

And you're exactly right. 

 

If you want instant access to melee combo moves, you can get the $60 Gods of War remake when it's released on PS4.

[----Fenrir----]

I don't understand this either. Worst case are throwing weapons (glaive and so on), they only have 2 available stances and both seem to be nearly impossible to get.

 

I Don't mind making certain things rarer to give people something to work for. But shouldn't every weapon at least have one stance that is not nearly impossible to obtain?

[Kthal]

I Don't mind making certain things rarer to give people something to work for. But shouldn't every weapon at least have one stance that is not nearly impossible to obtain?

 

In my mind, every class of melee weapon should have 1-2 uncommon/common Stances, with one non-random, weapon specific (multiple weapons could come with the same Stance) added to your inventory when a relevant weapon is crafted/bought, and additional rare/uncommon stances should drop from enemies.

 

These basic, non-RNG stances should have the default E-E-E combo as well as one other, and the E-E-E should always match the default moves of the weapon.

[Vashramire]

Thank god I never wanted to use Silva & Aegis after I saw it's stats. Trying to farm Eleventh Storm from Lephantis when it came out would have killed me as much as farming Tranquil Cleave(which I don't even use anymore). Leveled Furax with no stance and I wanted to punch myself in the throat. Stances are RNG and even common stances might elude people. I still have no dagger stances and am missing Gnashing Payara for my Fang Primes even though I've been playing since stances came out. They should either be unlockable or purchasable. I got Gleaming Talon during the Tactical Alert like most I believe. Leech and Sapping Ospreys really? I have a better chance of coptering into Vor so hard he turns into my grandma than seeing one of those, let alone getting a stance to drop.

[Kthal]

Eleventh Storm

Gnashing Payara

Gleaming Talon

 

Eleventh Storm is one of the easiest Stances to acquire.

 

Gnashing Payara is fairly rare, but nowhere near the rarity of many of the mods being complained about here. It could do with being added to the drops of one more enemy type, but it is nowhere near unobtainable.

 

Gleaming Talon is still rare, but is included in the drops of Sapping Ospreys, so has become significantly less rare since their release. Sapping Ospreys are a fairly common enemy.

 

 

For Gleaming Talon and Gnashing Payara, a lot of the rarity is because Corpus are currently the least played faction (from what i can gauge of how people are playing lately), and as such, the market has a shortage of supply for reasons other than low probability of drops.

[Firetempest]

Would have loved to see what the Redeemer could have really done. Yet DE saw fit to put its stance behind a newer enemy that never dropped its mods properly unless you kill it in a specific way.

By the time I could ever gain any of these super rare stances, I would have leveled that type of weapon to 30 and moved on to whatever else I could actually bring out the potential of.

[Delta65]

I honestly think that  Stances should not be obtained via drops at all.

DE could either make a special training area or could they could be learnable at the dojo.

 

On the other hand people would get mad if their highly grinded Stance-Mods would be avaible to everyone.

[Vashramire]

Eleventh Storm is one of the easiest Stances to acquire.

 

Gnashing Payara is fairly rare, but nowhere near the rarity of many of the mods being complained about here. It could do with being added to the drops of one more enemy type, but it is nowhere near unobtainable.

 

Gleaming Talon is still rare, but is included in the drops of Sapping Ospreys, so has become significantly less rare since their release. Sapping Ospreys are a fairly common enemy.

 

 

For Gleaming Talon and Gnashing Payara, a lot of the rarity is because Corpus are currently the least played faction (from what i can gauge of how people are playing lately), and as such, the market has a shortage of supply for reasons other than low probability of drops.

 

Easy to acquire means nothing when it's blocked by rng. I've run Lephantis dozens of times and never seen Eleventh Storm. If it was that "easy", I would have it. The other two I exclusively farmed for, as in if I was playing, I was grinding mobs on Nekros for them for months. Still never seen Seismic Palm and I've damn near commited genocide against the infested. Gleaming Talon supposedly does drop from Sapping Ospreys and they are plentiful, killed probably over 1000. Still never seen it drop. You can put a mod on a common mob but the fact that it drops randomly does not guarantee a reasonable time of play for it to drop. In some cases it makes entire weapon groups useless since the stance is so hard to get to drop.

[(PSN)The_Moustache]

It's still one of the stupidest things they've done. This and other reasons are why I barely play anymore. I've just gotten sick of the RNG BS and lies.

[Kthal]

Easy to acquire means nothing when it's blocked by rng. I've run Lephantis dozens of times and never seen Eleventh Storm. If it was that "easy", I would have it. The other two I exclusively farmed for, as in if I was playing, I was grinding mobs on Nekros for them for months. Still never seen Seismic Palm and I've damn near commited genocide against the infested. Gleaming Talon supposedly does drop from Sapping Ospreys and they are plentiful, killed probably over 1000. Still never seen it drop. You can put a mod on a common mob but the fact that it drops randomly does not guarantee a reasonable time of play for it to drop. In some cases it makes entire weapon groups useless since the stance is so hard to get to drop.

 

Trade.

 

Gleaming Talon is still in short supply, so you might not be able to find a seller, but Seismic Palm and Eleventh Storm, I have at least 12 of each, and many other players have spare copies too.

 

The problem is when Stances are so rare that not even trade can average out the RNG across the playerbase.

[Sartactics]

I kinda agree with this because some stances from rare enemies are ridiculous rare like almost unobtainble worse is that if a rae stance only drops from a rare enemy that is only common on a high lvl planet like Ceres then good luck at least make them as alert rewards but with the only difficulty is a specific melee weapon type or make them drop from MULTIPLE enemies!. Also for Vermillion Storm I think its unfinished so why would want an unfinished stance? Maybe it'll come back in U17 with a new claw weapon

[Demiax]

+1

[(PSN)timbob90210]

It's just rng working as intended. I've gotten plenty of Crimson Dervishes, but never one when I was farming for it. I rarely play anymore, so I'll never see the newer stances. I don't really mind though.

[Fish-Of-Water]

... call me an idiot for asking but.... what the hell is rng? On the stance topic though, I farmed for tranquil cleave for around 2 months and then finally got so irritated that I got plat just to trade for it. The so called "rare" mods aren't rare, they should add more classifications, i.e. legendary and epic, with how big of a pain in the &#! they are to obtain without having to pay for it.

[Ninja-Kid]

or you can be a good boy and buy them for plat

[(PSN)SofeSNBR]

I honestly think that  Stances should not be obtained via drops at all.

DE could either make a special training area or could they could be learnable at the dojo.

 

On the other hand people would get mad if their highly grinded Stance-Mods would be avaible to everyone.

This. Whole U13 is locked behind rng walls, it makes no sense. Why do i have feeling that parkour 2.0 will share same fate? (since they talked about stamina mods to be reworked for parkour 2.0, this could mean you can do certain movements without mod)

 

And you're exactly right. 

 

If you want instant access to melee combo moves, you can get the $60 Gods of War remake when it's released on PS4.

Lol that thing is 60 bucks? sony go home your drunk.

[Neutralred]

I don't understand this either. Worst case are throwing weapons (glaive and so on), they only have 2 available stances and both seem to be nearly impossible to get.

 

I Don't mind making certain things rarer to give people something to work for. But shouldn't every weapon at least have one stance that is not nearly impossible to obtain?

For a second there I had a glimmer of hope. There's a glaive stance other than Gleaming Talon? But no. Event mob. Crushed.

 

Spent days killing mobs on Venus for oxium/low lvl xp and on Mars for t4 keys. Both have sappers and sniper crewmen, Mars has leeches as well. No luck with stance mods. The drop chance is just way too low to be credible.

 

... call me an idiot for asking but.... what the hell is rng? On the stance topic though, I farmed for tranquil cleave for around 2 months and then finally got so irritated that I got plat just to trade for it. The so called "rare" mods aren't rare, they should add more classifications, i.e. legendary and epic, with how big of a pain in the ! they are to obtain without having to pay for it.

Random Number Generation. What drop you get from an enemy is determined by the game rolling virtual dice - ie., generating a random number - and then comparing that to the table of possibilities.

 

Simplified:

Game rolls a number between 1-10 to determine what you get

Result of 1-5 is no drop

Result of 6-9 is resources, energy, etc

Result of 10 is a mod

 

(Heavily simplified - the drop tables can be implemented in a number of ways that weight certain outcomes. Diablo 2 in particular had a ridiculous drop table implementation that meant you had to get lucky on a number of levels of RNG to get anything good, especially with runes.)

 

Gamers will sometimes refer to RNGesus or the Random Number God, as getting a good result can sometimes seem more like divine intervention than a mathematical function. Of course, in these cases it's usually just drop tables that are slanted against the player.

 

Can't help feeling that adding more classifications would just encourage them to make more mods ridiculously rare and then dump them in that classification.

[Davoodoo]

Thing is, it feels like marketing department idea.

 

The rarer thing is the higher it cost will be on trading, but still it will decay, so lets instead cut all sources of that stance, now it will decay very slowly.

How that affects gameplay?? who @(*()$ cares, were making money here.

[Eldnacpeek]

I made a wall of text for these exact issues months ago. Covers stance mod rarity and the BS Vermilion Storm situation (notice how it's been 10 months and we still haven't gotten it officially).

 

https://forums.warframe.com/index.php?/topic/458618-the-current-issues-with-recent-stance-mod-releases-and-the-elusive-vermilion-storm/

 

 

Besides that, you have my full support, OP.

Edited June 29, 2015 by LazerSkink

[-SLX-J3tAc3]

 

 

 

This isn't a "I want all the things now" mentality, it's good for things to be rare, but the problem is that some stances aren't just rare they're almost non existent. For example, I've killed a couple hundred thousand grineer (I obviously don't know how many bombards specifically) and I have 1 crimson dervish...that I bought from trade.

 

Then you have recent stances like high noon, four riders, and vermilion storm. Extremely low drop rate from rare enemies (some less rare than others, but none of the enemies spawn consistently). 

 

Then you have stances that are only available as rewards through tactical alerts; if you missed the alert tough luck.

 

This practice baffles me. You spend time and money developing the combos and animations only to hide them behind such ridiculous rng that the majority of your players will never experience what the devs worked to produce. Making the stances practically unobtainable also stops people from using, potato'ing, and polarizing certain weapons (my venka went from a dust collector to my new favorite potato'd and multi forma'd killing machine all because I bought four riders).

 

The tinfoil hat wearing cynic in me thinks it's to do with the free to pay business model; if people are selling them for 200p a piece that plat has to come from somewhere. I hope this isn't the case, but regardless I feel that the spawn chance for enemies needs to be taken into account when figuring the drop chance.

 

TL;DR: Enemy rarity/spawn chance should be taken into account when figuring drop chance and there should be a way to gain stances that were rewarded for a tac alert similarly to the way the Brakk and Detron were reintroduced.

I agree. if you don't players to have the stances, then just don't make them in the first place.